If they had put any thought into it, they would have seen the problems with a land border in Ireland, or the possibility of 27 countries acting in their common interests. They obviously didn’t.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (45 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
If they had put any thought into it, they would have seen the problems with a land border in Ireland, or the possibility of 27 countries acting in their common interests. They obviously didn’t.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
You'd have it that no one who voted Brexit had thought of anything really , whereas you did. You're just so much better than everyone else and like to tell us all. I think you need an outlet from this, a hobby of some sort. .
More in touch than you. I am not more in touch than many on here, just more in touch than you. I think you are insulting others on this thread if you say it’s all about me. Maybe you should not only watch or read the news, but also read the thread. It may help.
I cannot keep up with your posts.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
...oh now, don't put yourself down . You're far more informed than anyone else on here.
Probably at some time, but MPs and journalists are claiming support and polls are measuring an increase in support for a second referendum.
Good night. It must be just after pub closing there.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
No mate, match of the day. Obviously you sneer at the thought of someone in a pub. Says it all.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
In the end it’s politicising
Vote of no confidence bought down, general election demand bought down, it’s the next tactic to bring a change.
As for me having a heavily a heavily biased opinion - well....
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
You can't have a biased opinion, unless of course you agree with the other side.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Also as one article from the guardian says Mr McDonnell is far less enthusiastic about a second referendum in private than public - what a surprise.
I wanted to go to bed, but your last comment was even more uninformed than usual. I missed the pubs in Chapelfields, so I made my own, filled it with pictures of Coventry and CCFC things, and now if I want to feel at home I go into my pub .... which I live above..so no Problem getting home. Hardly in a position to sneer at pub goers... I even import beer from Coventry ( Twisted Barrel in Fargo ),
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
I think they all are .
"We demand a second referendum..."
"Alright then....."
"Oh bollocks...…"
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you're back. It was terribly tame. Have you got your pyjamas on ?
No. I don’t wear them, the missus thinks that’s too boring. Well, I’ve got to roll over now... it’s an hour later here.. sleep well..
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
You too. Tomorrow is another day. Good night.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Where did I claim it’s unbiased? All media has an agenda to a certain extent. If you believe that MPs in the Labour discussing a 2nd referendum is only wishful thinking, then that’s you’re choice but I think you’re probably being naive.
I’ve said repeatedly though that I think the EEA option would be a compromise and go some way to repairing the divided country.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
If May fails to get the deal through parliament, a change is going to be inevitable, it will also put eurosceptic Corbyn in a very uncomfortable position and he won’t be able to continue with his current ambiguity.
The fact that he would abandon his long held beliefs to cling to power doesn’t sit well with me.
Everyone is biased about the referendum, including you and I. As I’ve said before though, I think the EEA option would be a compromise that would go some way towards a compromise as I do recognise the dangers that could be unleashed with a 2nd referendum.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Who in their right mind would join the EU now they have seen the problems you have leaving if you find out at a later date you made a mistake joining?
I can only see countries desperate for EU cash joining from now.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Italy for starters.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The north is still incredibly prosperous and wealthy and the south has been plagued by mafia and corruption for centuries.
A lot of Italians place the blame firmly at the feet of their politicians and mafia.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Problems leaving? The UK is leaving, the problems it has encountered that it’s been massively underprepared and several politicians promised a land of fantasy.
As the only ‘neutral’ poster on this subject, I’m sure that you’re aware of this
Astute
Well-Known Member
Not everyone is biased.
There is good about being in the EU. There is bad about being in the EU. There will be winners and losers if we stay in or leave the EU.
I would love us to stay in the EU but only if it reforms. Leaders of different countries want it to reform. But they don't get a choice on the matter. Leaders of countries of the EU should get more of a say in matters. But mainly they only get to vote and discuss what others have chosen. Why should those who run the EU have more of a say than those who run their countries? Then there would be no more Selmayr debacles. Less benefits would be given to those running the EU. It would save a lot of money. Those putting the money in would have a bigger say on where it goes.
The list is endless.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So the monumental debt owed by Italy is down to the mafia and corruption?
Astute
Well-Known Member
So it is so difficult to leave the EU because we were underprepared?
So how could we have prepared better that would have made it easy to leave?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Leaving the EU isn’t difficult. Delivering the fantasy that was sold as Brexit on the other hand is.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
we could have had an idea of exactly how we were going to leave, (no deal, Norway option etc).
As it stands we're 4 months away and still nobody knows.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Poor decision making also at domestic politics level. Ever heard of the Italian Baby Pensioners? Italian domestic policies have been disastrous for a century and more.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
No you’re right, decades and decades of organised crime that generates estimates of €100bn of profit for the groups and deep, deep corruption has had minimal effect on the performance of the country and its debt.
To try and place the blame for the country’s problems at the feet of the EU and deflecting away from how organised crime has ruined the country show just how extreme your position is
Astute
Well-Known Member
And why is that?
We were supposed to negotiate leaving. But no negotiations have really taken place. We have been dictated to.
So we joined 'the club' by default as we never voted to join the EU. It just became the EU. We joined the common market. It has become a club that is difficult to leave. If we had joined through choice it would be our fault. But we didn't.
Astute
Well-Known Member
:smuggrin:
Just like where you quoted other countries could easily remove illegal immigrants but we can't. And then you tried to deny saying it even when I kept quoting your post.
So did I say minimal effect? Would you like to point out where I have said minimal effect? Of course not. It is you making something up again.
Next you will be telling me that EU rules have had a minimum effect on Italy. You will tell me that open borders in Europe didn't make any economic migrants land in Italy. Will you then try and tell me that the EU making Italy keep the migrants in their country....which costs about 3 billion a year I read somewhere....has no affect.
If you could be truthful we could have a proper debate. But you constantly try and take any blame away from the EU for just about everything. Yet leaders like Macron are starting to get outspoken against the EU. Saying that I suppose you know more than them.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
No the reason for this is the same reason we had the referendum in the first place, an on-going civil war in the tory party.
Again, look at quotes from the main protagonists pre and post referendum, there was never any consensus as to what Brexit meant.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
HAHA! Open borders in Europe, from Africa? Believe it or not but there are no open borders for African countries into the EU, these people are trying to enter the country illegally, so they don't respect the borders and they would continue to land there whether the EU existed or not. I have also said multiple times that the EU should reform and these people should be distributed around the EU, including the UK.
You constantly try and blame the EU for just about everything, the impact of the mafia and organised crime has had a far greater impact than Italy on the EU, yet you just tried to make out that the EU is massively responsible. The north is also incredibly wealthy, btw.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You do know that the reason they’re leaving from Libya and heading to Italy is because the Italian mafia is facilitating it with various armed terrorist groups in Libya? Morocco to Spain would be the crossing point if not.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Not the way I see it at all.
Us having a referendum was a voting bribe by Cameron. He said if the Tories won the next GE we would get a referendum on if to remain or leave the EU. The Tories got elected. The rest is history.