The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (161 Viewers)

[martcov]

If Brexit does get cancelled what’s the odds on Rees-Mogg closing his newly opened Hedge Fund office in Dublin?

Or his funds losing a fortune when his futures trading goes pear shaped.

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Anyone else think may will get a big majority if general election happened? Unless UKIP split the vote

 

[richnrg]

agree on that. History won't be kind to the pig head fucking, villa supporting Bullingdon boy.

You're right - Villa eh? What a cúnt

 

[Grappa]

Remember when the twat got villa and west ham confused?

 

[skybluetony176]

Or his funds losing a fortune when his futures trading goes pear shaped.

No one would deserve it more.

 

[dutchman]

How come you can vote?

My mother was at one time married to a British subject who lives in Coventry so I was registered to vote here.

 

[Grendel]

And then probably a run off between the 2 most popular if not one gets a majority.

No it would be a second choice option

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If the bill cannot go through parliament it should be

Do you want this deal?
Do you want to leave but another deal?
Do you want to remain?
Do you want to remain but with improved terms from the EU?

You missed out leave without any deal.

 

[Grendel]

You missed out leave without any deal.

That’s option two as there is always a form of deal

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That’s option two as there is always a form of deal

In which case, option is too wooly and, dare I say it, your questions could then be accused of driving people towards voting to remain as those wanting something closer to Norway wouldn't vote on an option that could see hardcore severing of ties.

 

[Grendel]

In which case, option is too wooly and, dare I say it, your questions could then be accused of driving people towards voting to remain as those wanting something closer to Norway wouldn't vote on an option that could see hardcore severing of ties.

You cannot have every option for leave in the same way you cannot gauge what would persuade people to vote remain - the idea would be to get the government to have further engagement from the EU

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You cannot have every option for leave in the same way you cannot gauge what would persuade people to vote remain - the idea would be to get the government to have further engagement from the EU

I can safely say your questions skew the results.

Although for what it's worth, this is why a referendum on a complex subject with many shades of grey was a stupid idea in the first place. Somewhere... somebody will always vote for something, and get something other than what they thought they were voting for. Politicians are elected to make these decisions, and this whole mess shows why they should be left to, whilst being held to account by their electorate.

 

[Grendel]

I can safely say your questions skew the results.

Although for what it's worth, this is why a referendum on a complex subject with many shades of grey was a stupid idea in the first place. Somewhere... somebody will always vote for something, and get something other than what they thought they were voting for. Politicians are elected to make these decisions, and this whole mess shows why they should be left to, whilst being held to account by their electorate.

Well no the original referendum was perfectly fine and the result honored. The process was correctly put in a manifesto and the public chose the party to implement that promise

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well no the original referendum was perfectly fine and the result honored. The process was correctly put in a manifesto and the public chose the party to implement that promise

Nope, the original referendum didn't account for nuance. Based on the original referendum, Rees Mogg, Johnson and co should be backing May's agreement, as it involves leaving the EU - thereby honouring said referendum. It appears that if the original referendum *were* absolutely fine, then those stopping us leaving and honouring the (advisory) referendum are those who claim to want to see us leave.

And if you think said referendum were absolutely fine then you should be suggesting that any questions for a future one should be the same as last time.

 

[Grendel]

Nope, the original referendum didn't account for nuance. Based on the original referendum, Rees Mogg, Johnson and co should be backing May's agreement, as it involves leaving the EU - thereby honouring said referendum. It appears that if the original referendum *were* absolutely fine, then those stopping us leaving and honouring the (advisory) referendum are those who claim to want to see us leave.

And if you think said referendum were absolutely fine then you should be suggesting that any questions for a future one should be the same as last time.

Oh I think another referendum would be the biggest sell out of democracy in the country. I am merely pushing back the deal or in alternative

As I have said you cannot have another referendum on polls two years later or this will have to be done again if the polls go the other way. We had 40 years between referndum last time not two.

Its also interesting how people who are affronted by referendum seem to happily encourage further referendums in Scotland as an example. Very confusing that.

 

[martcov]

No it would be a second choice option

I think a run off a week later of the First 2 preferences ( a bit like in France at the Presidential Election ) forces at least 50%, but probably would return a higher margin. That way all options were on the table and it is reduced to the 2, and 1 will be the actual „will of the people“ as everyone had an option.

 

[dutchman]

I think a run off a week later of the First 2 preferences ( a bit like in France at the Presidential Election )

And what a disaster that turned out to be!

 

[martcov]

And what a disaster that turned out to be!

No. It was a massive majority. The will of the people.

 

[Grendel]

No. It was a massive majority. The will of the people.

Which they can and will change when they are able

 

[martcov]

And what a disaster that turned out to be!

A bit like Brexit, but Brexit is politically worse.

 

[Grendel]

A bit like Brexit, but Brexit is politically worse.

Brexit politically is a lot better

 

[martcov]

Which they can and will change when they are able

Yes. No problem with that. People can change their minds when they see the cock up they created.

 

[Grendel]

Yes. No problem with that. People can change their minds when they see the cock up they created.

So we agree we can have another referendum whenever opinion polls change either way -- good

 

[martcov]

Brexit politically is a lot better

France has a government and whatever happens they know where they are next week. They are talking and views are being taken into account.

 

[Grendel]

France has a government and whatever happens they know where they are next week. They are talking and views are being taken into account.

Good so politically if it is in Italys interest for the elected governments budget to become law you agree that should happen?

 

[martcov]

So we agree we can have another referendum whenever opinion polls change either way -- good

No. You said when the people have made an obvious mistake ( I think that’s what you mean) they can change their mind.

 

[martcov]

Good so politically if it is in Italys interest for the elected governments budget to become law you agree that should happen?

No. Because they are signed up to a monetary union. Short of dropping out of the monetary union, they have to abide by the rules that they signed up to. They may be crazy but they are not totally mad.

 

[Grendel]

No. You said when the people have made an obvious mistake ( I think that’s what you mean) they can change their mind.

No I did not say that at all. You have said constantly said opinion polls are your basis of mistake. So therefore you like me agree say in 12 months time that those who swung to remain say they made an obvious mistake and the polls reflect that (i.e. a 52% to leave) we must have another referendum. That is the basis of your whole argument surely.

 

[Grendel]

No. Because they are signed up to a monetary union. Short of dropping out of the monetary union, they have to abide by the rules that they signed up to. They may be crazy but they are not totally mad.

So the Sovereign parliament views are not taken into account. Well well......

 

[martcov]

No I did not say that at all. You have said constantly said opinion polls are your basis of mistake. So therefore you like me agree say in 12 months time that those who swung to remain say they made an obvious mistake and the polls reflect that (i.e. a 52% to leave) we must have another referendum. That is the basis of your whole argument surely.

No. I have said that Brexit is a mistake. As seems to be the case. We are in gridlock in Parliament. That the opinion polls are agreeing more with me is secondary. There is no way out without a fresh mandate as the Brexit we are getting was not on the ballot in the first referendum.

 

[martcov]

So the Sovereign parliament views are not taken into account. Well well......

The sovereign parliament signed up to a monetary union. If they want out, then they can do it. They won’t though.

 

[Grendel]

No. I have said that Brexit is a mistake. As seems to be the case. We are in gridlock in Parliament. That the opinion polls are agreeing more with me is secondary. There is no way out without a fresh mandate as the Brexit we are getting was not on the ballot in the first referendum.

But you are a true democrat so you would be very happy for another referendum if the will of the people is to have one as reflected in opinion polls? Or are you saying opinion polls are not a reflection of peoples opinions?

As for Brexit we are getting not being on the referendum I assume you are disgusted at the 1970's referendum and accept this is null and void as is not the EEC people voted for then is it? If you are not then you can't really sustain that line of argument can you?

 

[Grendel]

The sovereign parliament signed up to a monetary union. If they want out, then they can do it. They won’t though.

Ah the 4th Reich speaks

 

[Astute]

No. I have said that Brexit is a mistake. As seems to be the case. We are in gridlock in Parliament. That the opinion polls are agreeing more with me is secondary. There is no way out without a fresh mandate as the Brexit we are getting was not on the ballot in the first referendum.

Opinion polls will most probably include people that have come here to live. Of course they will be pro EU. But they are not allowed to vote.

 

[martcov]

But you are a true democrat so you would be very happy for another referendum if the will of the people is to have one as reflected in opinion polls? Or are you saying opinion polls are not a reflection of peoples opinions?

As for Brexit we are getting not being on the referendum I assume you are disgusted at the 1970's referendum and accept this is null and void as is not the EEC people voted for then is it? If you are not then you can't really sustain that line of argument can you?

I am sure that any constitution or parliament in the world does not operate the same as on the day it was grounded. Things evolve. Our sovereign Parliament has ratified every change . I voted in 1975 for the EEC and haven’t changed my mind. My life is easier ( Travel and residency ) and my business ( no more Carnets ). It’s all bollocks. If Farage and the likes of him weren’t spouting crap, you wouldn’t know whether we are in or out of the EU in normal life. Except for EU citizens as neighbours. These have now been blamed for all ills caused by austerity and government ideology. But normal life goes on and the UK has it’s own sovereign parliament. You would never have thought of the curvature of bananas without Johnson. Because it doesn’t matter a fxxk.