The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (91 Viewers)

[martcov]

She has been playing for time. And she has done very well out of running the clock down.

Remember one thing. This so called deal that isn't really a deal was set by the EU. Brexit won't be happening at the set date. None of us have a clue what she is playing at. She is a remainer. It has made Corbyn become a remainer. It doesn't look good on someone who always wanted out of the EU.

As I have been saying for ages I can't see us leaving the EU. Having a deal like Norway is worse than staying in the EU. Same rules more or less but no say. Trade deals elsewhere yes. But that comes with border checks. This doesn't remove the problem with Ireland.

May hasn't been saying she wants another referendum. Corbyn knows it would alienate a lot of voters. As I keep saying lots of twists and turns to come.

So Brexit won't happen on the date. But there isn't a lot to make the date get expanded. Another GE? The Tories will win a vote of no confidence. Another referendum? It is getting more of a possibility. But who holds enough power is brave enough to call one? It could be left to a debate where nobody can be seen to be to blame. And the majority of MP's have always been in favour of staying in the EU.

This could be fun.

You are as much a remainer as May. You voted remain as she did and you are now unbiased. May is trying her best to polish a turd.

 

---

[martcov]

Why listen to an expert though?

Yes experts always get it wrong. But .. the people who say that go to a doctor when they are ill, they don’t ask the opinion of some loud mouth in the pub. They only do that when it is the future of the UK.

 

[martcov]

Despite the general opinion we will be a lot worse off under a no deal scenario?

I wonder what would have happened if the campaign for the referendum had been based on a no deal at all scenario. Surely the vote would have been to remain, because you would have MP after MP and party after party and business leader after business leader and financial expert after financial expert pretty much all saying that a no deal scenario outcome would be very bad and damaging to the country and to the economy.

Maybe that should have been on the ballot paper

It would then be so obvious that this could only end up as the UK being worse off in return for a blue passport, a commemorative 50p and changing the colour and religion of the majority of migrants to the UK. Any money saved from not paying into the EU being offset by extra agencies, border control and red tape.

Why have a ballot at all?

 

[Sick Boy]

She has been playing for time. And she has done very well out of running the clock down.

Remember one thing. This so called deal that isn't really a deal was set by the EU. Brexit won't be happening at the set date. None of us have a clue what she is playing at. She is a remainer. It has made Corbyn become a remainer. It doesn't look good on someone who always wanted out of the EU.

As I have been saying for ages I can't see us leaving the EU. Having a deal like Norway is worse than staying in the EU. Same rules more or less but no say. Trade deals elsewhere yes. But that comes with border checks. This doesn't remove the problem with Ireland.

May hasn't been saying she wants another referendum. Corbyn knows it would alienate a lot of voters. As I keep saying lots of twists and turns to come.

So Brexit won't happen on the date. But there isn't a lot to make the date get expanded. Another GE? The Tories will win a vote of no confidence. Another referendum? It is getting more of a possibility. But who holds enough power is brave enough to call one? It could be left to a debate where nobody can be seen to be to blame. And the majority of MP's have always been in favour of staying in the EU.

This could be fun.

Why would the EEA mean border/checks a hard border? The UK would be in the single market and therefore not lowering standards to cater for the likes of the USA, therefore it’d be a hell of a lot more straightforward

 

[martcov]

Interesting quote from the Conservative manifesto before the election they won and went on to ratify the EU treaty:

“The European Community

The Conservatives have been the party of Britain in Europe for 30 years. We have argued when argument was necessary; but we have not wavered nor changed our views. We have ensured that Britain is at the heart of Europe; a strong and respected partner.

We have played a decisive part in the development of the Community over the past decade. It was a British initiative which launched the Single Market programme and our insistence which reformed the Community's finances. Britain has promoted co-operation on foreign policy and in combating terrorism. Britain has also persuaded our partners to welcome new countries who apply for Community membership.“

Now look at the bollocks spewed out by the leavers in the Conservative Party who talk about the EU as if it is a foreign monster which they have nothing to do with.

 

[jas365]

Centre left is where a majority of the country are ian. Corbyn will never win a majority I’m afraid. It’s auch a shame but we need to face historical facts

I think the country overall is slightly centre right.

Labour are a chasm away from winning a GE. Analysis shows they need a poll lead of at least 10% to win an election, at best they are level. Polls also show that support for labour would drop further if Corbyn backs brexit in their manifesto rather than call for a 2nd referendum.

If there is a GE the chances are the numbers will be fairly close to what we have currently. I don't see how a GE solves the brexit problem.

 

[Ian1779]

I think the country overall is slightly centre right.

Labour are a chasm away from winning a GE. Analysis shows they need a poll lead of at least 10% to win an election, at best they are level. Polls also show that support for labour would drop further if Corbyn backs brexit in their manifesto rather than call for a 2nd referendum.

If there is a GE the chances are the numbers will be fairly close to what we have currently. I don't see how a GE solves the brexit problem.

On the contrary actually, Labour will lose more seats if they back a 2nd referendum due to the geographical nature of Labour voters and their remain/leave preferences.

That's why their stance has been like it is. Their northern strongholds are at risk as they ALL voted leave, and backing a 2nd referendum vote will just tell that already disillusioned electorate that London choices and voices are more important than theirs.

 

[Astute]

Why would the EEA mean border/checks a hard border? The UK would be in the single market and therefore not lowering standards to cater for the likes of the USA, therefore it’d be a hell of a lot more straightforward

Why is it I show you links that show that you are wrong and the next day or two you say the same thing again?

You said a good thing about EEA is that we can make our own trade deals. But if we can make our own trade deals they will not have been through EU customs. So there will need to be checks. We still would have a problem with Ireland.

Lessons from Norway-Sweden border for post-Brexit Britain

Reality Check: How open are EU borders for trade?

I see your puppy dog agreed with you. Is he clueless or just wants to pat you on the back constantly knowing that you are wrong?

 

[nunchuckas]

Labour's own manifesto is surprisingly right-leaning - Corbyn proposes lower corporate tax rates and lower income tax rates than those of the Thatcher years, for instance. To call his policies far left and to keep harping on about how he wants Communism for Britain is to have uncritically bought into the media's narratives, I'm sorry to say. And that applies to the majority of the general public.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

...and out of chaos comes order.

They will make a movie on this in a few years...& we can all relive it.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[skybluetony176]

Why would the EEA mean border/checks a hard border? The UK would be in the single market and therefore not lowering standards to cater for the likes of the USA, therefore it’d be a hell of a lot more straightforward

Told him yesterday (although he’s probably pretending to ignore me at the moment) that he needs to look at the Norway/Sweden border. The example and standard is already there in use on a day to day basis. There’s no probably, no maybe and no yeah but. We already know how it will work from the example set and it solves the Irish border issue. Clearly.

 

[clint van damme]

Labour's own manifesto is surprisingly right-leaning - Corbyn proposes lower corporate tax rates and lower income tax rates than those of the Thatcher years, for instance. To call his policies far left and to keep harping on about how he wants Communism for Britain is to have uncritically bought into the media's narratives, I'm sorry to say. And that applies to the majority of the general public.

it's like the public bank idea, medias were all over it making out it was some sort of extreme socialist economic policy but several countries use them including Germany. Certainly makes more sense to me than PFI but it makes public debt visible on the balance sheet.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why is it I show you links that show that you are wrong and the next day or two you say the same thing again?

You said a good thing about EEA is that we can make our own trade deals. But if we can make our own trade deals they will not have been through EU customs. So there will need to be checks. We still would have a problem with Ireland.

Lessons from Norway-Sweden border for post-Brexit Britain

Reality Check: How open are EU borders for trade?

I see your puppy dog agreed with you. Is he clueless or just wants to pat you on the back constantly knowing that you are wrong?

Your first link is about an issue that already exists in the U.K. Do you think that every container unloaded at port gets unpacked and checked by customs. Every container we’ve ever received at work still has the custom seals from destination intact having never been opened since it was closed in Asia. Only once have we ever had anything pulled and that was part of a mix load container where customs had a tip off that one of the consignments was counterfeit cigarettes destined for the U.K. black market.

Yes the Irish border will have some customs checks but from the perspective of the GFA is free movement of people and the right to work either side of the border. There’s always been a black market either side of the border, not as big as it was during the troubles or before but it’s always been there. Leaving the EU and joining the EEA isn’t going to add a new problem.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Palimentarians have united in hijacking the result of the referendum. Leave means leave. I did not anticipate making deals and having terms laid down by thebrussels eliete telling us what we can and can't do. Just bloody leave. Stand tall as a country. We are more than big enough and will be very successful on our own. The EU is not the prize it was dreamt up to be and never will be. They want a federal state with one currency, one army, one government. The UK will disappear as will France, Germany etc. Edward Heath was the instigator and traitor to our country signing us away back in the 70's and keeping the real reasons and future plans from the public.

Think that’s the point though cause if you thought that’s what you were voting for you were wrong

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Despite the general opinion we will be a lot worse off under a no deal scenario?

I wonder what would have happened if the campaign for the referendum had been based on a no deal at all scenario. Surely the vote would have been to remain, because you would have MP after MP and party after party and business leader after business leader and financial expert after financial expert pretty much all saying that a no deal scenario outcome would be very bad and damaging to the country and to the economy.

Maybe that should have been on the ballot paper

Paxman thinks it was

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes experts always get it wrong. But .. the people who say that go to a doctor when they are ill, they don’t ask the opinion of some loud mouth in the pub. They only do that when it is the future of the UK.

Some do especially Gove

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Your first link is about an issue that already exists in the U.K. Do you think that every container unloaded at port gets unpacked and checked by customs. Every container we’ve ever received at work still has the custom seals from destination intact having never been opened since it was closed in Asia. Only once have we ever had anything pulled and that was part of a mix load container where customs had a tip off that one of the consignments was counterfeit cigarettes destined for the U.K. black market.

Yes the Irish border will have some customs checks but from the perspective of the GFA is free movement of people and the right to work either side of the border. There’s always been a black market either side of the border, not as big as it was during the troubles or before but it’s always been there. Leaving the EU and joining the EEA isn’t going to add a new problem.

It does as numerous agreements with Eu mean certain companies don’t complete vat returns who now will need to. We are getting ready for huge increase in customs work and we just don’t have the staff or knowledge to enable things to work. We’ll do our best and work our bollox off but fundamentally the ministers and brexiteers just want to talk easy technological solutions and don’t listen to sense

 

[martcov]

I’ve just been interviewed for German state radio in South West Germany. I explained the sheer craziness of the Brexit situation to them. I hope it gets selected for broadcast.

 

[Otis]

Wunderbar!

 

[martcov]

Wunderbar!

No. Wahnsinn.

 

[skybluetony176]

It does as numerous agreements with Eu mean certain companies don’t complete vat returns who now will need to. We are getting ready for huge increase in customs work and we just don’t have the staff or knowledge to enable things to work. We’ll do our best and work our bollox off but fundamentally the ministers and brexiteers just want to talk easy technological solutions and don’t listen to sense

We’re in a similar situation. Biggest problem is no one knows what to prepare for. We have one contract with an Irish client which is proof testing certain equipment. We arrange collection, it comes to us in the U.K., we test it and send it back with a pass or fail. The only thing we invoice is the service, the goods are never our property so there is no invoice either way for the value of the goods and the invoice for the services is VAT free because we’re invoicing another EU country.

We don’t know if the goods are going to have to be sent and returned with monetary value for custom purposes, if it does will we have to pay VAT on entry into the U.K., will our client have to pay VAT on entry back into Ireland, will we pay duty on goods we don’t own own and never will on entry to the U.K., will the client pay duty on goods they already own on entry back into Ireland? All questions we’ve posed to the DTI, U.K. customs, chamber of commerce and various shipping companies that move the goods for us at various times over the last couple of years and not one can give us any definitive answer and most times the answer is a shrug of the shoulders. Yet we’re supposed to be leaving in 2 months.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We’re in a similar situation. Biggest problem is no one knows what to prepare for. We have one contract with an Irish client which is proof testing certain equipment. We arrange collection, it comes to us in the U.K., we test it and send it back with a pass or fail. The only thing we invoice is the service, the goods are never our property so there is no invoice either way for the value of the goods and the invoice for the services is VAT free because we’re invoicing another EU country.

We don’t know if the goods are going to have to be sent and returned with monetary value for custom purposes, if it does will we have to pay VAT on entry into the U.K., will our client have to pay VAT on entry back into Ireland, will we pay duty on goods we don’t own own and never will on entry to the U.K., will the client pay duty on goods they already own on entry back into Ireland? All questions we’ve posed to the DTI, U.K. customs, chamber of commerce and various shipping companies that move the goods for us at various times over the last couple of years and not one can give us any definitive answer and most times the answer is a shrug of the shoulders. Yet we’re supposed to be leaving in 2 months.

The answer is yes that’s exactly right that there will be a potential vat payment and it’s hundreds and thousands of companies affected.

Fake news and project fear of course

 

[martcov]

The answer is yes that’s exactly right that there will be a potential vat payment and it’s hundreds and thousands of companies affected.

Fake news and project fear of course

Yes. That’s similar with exhibitions. If I bill Irish or British companies for exhibitor costs. Reverse transfer system. Just lost one contract from Britain. They will pay more for a British company to come over though. They have given it to a British firm. Sounds good for theUK, but it cuts both ways. The fun starts for them when they have to get a Carnet de Passage if there is a no deal situation.

 

[martcov]

Reuters just phoned and want to do a TV interview with me in Berlin about Brexit. See what happens. I am not there til tonight. Probably tomorrow or Friday.

 

[jas365]

On the contrary actually, Labour will lose more seats if they back a 2nd referendum due to the geographical nature of Labour voters and their remain/leave preferences.

That's why their stance has been like it is. Their northern strongholds are at risk as they ALL voted leave, and backing a 2nd referendum vote will just tell that already disillusioned electorate that London choices and voices are more important than theirs.

Intetesting, the support dropping for labour if they support brexit i got from here

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...gQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1BGLKOT1yEP4joM4gmqtNJ&cf=1

 

[CCFCSteve]

We’re in a similar situation. Biggest problem is no one knows what to prepare for. We have one contract with an Irish client which is proof testing certain equipment. We arrange collection, it comes to us in the U.K., we test it and send it back with a pass or fail. The only thing we invoice is the service, the goods are never our property so there is no invoice either way for the value of the goods and the invoice for the services is VAT free because we’re invoicing another EU country.

We don’t know if the goods are going to have to be sent and returned with monetary value for custom purposes, if it does will we have to pay VAT on entry into the U.K., will our client have to pay VAT on entry back into Ireland, will we pay duty on goods we don’t own own and never will on entry to the U.K., will the client pay duty on goods they already own on entry back into Ireland? All questions we’ve posed to the DTI, U.K. customs, chamber of commerce and various shipping companies that move the goods for us at various times over the last couple of years and not one can give us any definitive answer and most times the answer is a shrug of the shoulders. Yet we’re supposed to be leaving in 2 months.

And yet we’ve still got politicians fucking about, labour politicising the matter, tories split (hard line brexiteers still believing a no deal is likely) etc etc.

GE = further delays, no likely certainty this year.

Second referendum = further delays, no likely certainty until summer/autumn this year (if Remain wins) and unlikely to be until next year if Leave wins as further negotiations will be required.

All this time investment is withheld and limited other government policy making. As I mentioned before a lot of MPs need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Most of the country just want this done with

 

[Grendel]

Intetesting, the support dropping for labour if they support brexit i got from here

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...gQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1BGLKOT1yEP4joM4gmqtNJ&cf=1

I think the source is labour members

 

[martcov]

And yet we’ve still got politicians fucking about, labour politicising the matter, tories split (hard line brexiteers still believing a no deal is likely) etc etc.

GE = further delays, no likely certainty this year.

Second referendum = further delays, no likely certainty until summer/autumn this year (if Remain wins) and unlikely to be until next year if Leave wins as further negotiations will be required.

All this time investment is withheld and limited other government policy making. As I mentioned before a lot of MPs need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Most of the country just want this done with

Problem is that no one can agree on what leave actually is. May thought she knew. RM thinks he knows. As do BoJo, Gove and Davis. Just to take any deal to get it over with is not a good negotiating tactic and shows the weakness of our position. Remain is the least costly and easiest course of action. Just that people were promised something which still hasn’t materialised and cannot materialise as there is no written description of what the end product is.

 

[Ian1779]

Reuters just phoned and want to do a TV interview with me in Berlin about Brexit. See what happens. I am not there til tonight. Probably tomorrow or Friday.

Tell them about this thread... we can take over the negotiations instead.

 

[Grendel]

Reading between the lines at PMQs there seems to be some possibility of a customs union becoming part of the leave arrangement

 

[clint van damme]

Reading between the lines at PMQs there seems to be some possibility of a customs union becoming part of the leave arrangement

I think a lot of labour MPs will back that, (Corbyn said he would but we'll see), and there's a chance the deal would go through, it won't be popular with leave voters though.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Reading between the lines at PMQs there seems to be some possibility of a customs union becoming part of the leave arrangement

It’s what the EU want and what labour are suggesting they need in order it to support (and after the likely fail in the no confidence vote/attempt to force a GE, they will have to start taking the process more seriously)

This was however deliverable during the withdrawal agreement though (heard Alan Johnson ex labour earlier saying their stance doesn’t make sense....unless their only goal was to try to force a GE).

I’m wondering why we would tie ourselves to the end solution before we have even started trade negoations ? I would have this as the backstop to avoid the backstop...not a starting position !

Ps labours previous stance was a CU without FOM and whilst having the ability to reach new trade agreements with no EU countries - what a joke ! (Impossible to deliver) If a CU includes FOM, paying significant amounts into the EU pot and stops trade agreements with non EU nations, what’s the point ?!!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Reuters just phoned and want to do a TV interview with me in Berlin about Brexit. See what happens. I am not there til tonight. Probably tomorrow or Friday.

Can I suggest you also provide Grendels number so they can get you both on together and balance the view....and get great radio !!!

 

[Captain Dart]

Labour's own manifesto is surprisingly right-leaning - Corbyn proposes lower corporate tax rates and lower income tax rates than those of the Thatcher years, for instance. To call his policies far left and to keep harping on about how he wants Communism for Britain is to have uncritically bought into the media's narratives, I'm sorry to say. And that applies to the majority of the general public.

Nonsense, he wants to re-nationalise everything. If you are under 40 you probably won't understand how inefficient most nationalised industries were.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Reuters just phoned and want to do a TV interview with me in Berlin about Brexit. See what happens. I am not there til tonight. Probably tomorrow or Friday.

Wow, very, very impressive. Balanced view I bet.