Grendel
Well-Known Member
How much share did they lose in the vote?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (76 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
How much share did they lose in the vote?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Wasn't Labour supposed to be wiped out? They've put a remain supporter in a leave seat and still won.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Am sure you know when it comes to a by-election such as this, they're onto a loser, given the previous MP was, on a local level, a highly respected and hard-working one who'd served for over 30 years with distinction.
It'd be exactly the same if Dennis Skinner died, or take your Conservative equivalent if you will.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Lol - no they were not - and if UKIP hadn’t stood the tories would have won - Who predicted a wipe out!
tisza
Well-Known Member
Would have thought the key figure for all parties (particularly with a highly charged issue in the news) is the turnout - 37.1%.
tisza
Well-Known Member
I have an adopted Hungarian daughter. Married an Italian. Moved to Austria when her kids were 9 and 6. Both boys fluent in Hungarian, Italian, English and German.
Got several "mixed" nationality coupled friends all of whose kids are speaking Hungarian and 2 parents native languages fluently. Young kids are incredible when it comes to picking up new languages given the chance.
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westcountry_skyblue
Guest
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I never said that she has done nothing wrong. I have said so many times what my position is but like normal you put 2+2 together and get 5. Waste of time
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Evidence?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Waste of time?
Yet again you have contradicted yourself and try to make out it is me that has done something and that I can't comprehend things.
Did you say that May has failed to sort out Brexit because she hasn't been given the tools? Yes.
Have you constantly had a go at May because she is totally useless? Yes.
Make your mind up. Is it because she hadn't had the tools or because she is a tool?
This is the problem with not minding what you say to have a go at someone. You sometimes contradict yourself. Then you don't have the honesty to admit it. You would prefer to insult me yet again. Thanks.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Scruffy Brexit tramp Tim Martin was in the city arms tonight
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
No I said she tried her best to get a good deal with bad tools. Every quote of mine you will find on this topic criticises her for practically everything else. There is no contradiction, there never was.
Or do I have to laboriously go through them to prove this is the case. It’s tedious. You have genuinely failed to comprehend the point
Astute
Well-Known Member
Have it your way. Can't be bothered with you anymore.
Previously you had a go at her for everything. Now some of it isn't her fault. I disagree with this. She took it on. She failed. She tried again. She failed. She tried again still not changing anything. She failed. She now wants to try again without changing anything. The EU won't allow another extension without something drastically changing. She wanted Corbyn on board but still to change nothing. Yet it is supposed to be the tools she had. Wrong. It is her being so recalcitrant which is causing most problems.
Rees-Mogg has just implied that leavers who claim that the U.K. has no power in the EU are talking crap ( this includes himself on other days ). He now claims we have the power to block the budget, block any EU army and any further EU integration. Add that to leavers claiming FOM is bollocks, people can live and work anywhere etc., and you are running out of reasons for leaving the EU. Pity he didn’t point these things out before the vote. The French made blue passports and a 50p commemorative coin aren’t much better reasons for leaving either.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
I think it’s possible to say she’s tried her best whilst also doing a crap job of it. With some of her ministerial appointments she’s essentially been negotiating with one hand tied behind her back, but ultimately it’s her fault for making such appointments.
It was always going to be difficult (for difficult, see nigh-on impossible) to put together a deal that was deemed satisfactory to a cross-section of MPs and their different aims and ambitions, and having set her ‘red lines’ out early in the conversation she has got to a point that resembles some of what Brexiteers wanted but it’s still not enough. The general populace (me included) vastly underestimated how difficult it would be to fully negotiate a position with the EU, and a lot of that is to do with MPs sticking their two-penneth in and hampering negotiations. A thankless task, but largely a shambles.
Her red lines without parliamentary consent, and based on her version of Brexit were doomed to failure from the start. As is Brexit. Whatever happens now, the majority will be unhappy as there is no majority for any kind of Brexit. People claim that people knew what they voted for and that that is the will of the people. No they didn’t and no it isn’t. That is the problem.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I know the thread is specifically about Brexit but if you look at her time as PM and home Secretary she's been a disaster and responsible for some very unsavoury events.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Yeah...those that think it is easy trying to achieve what she is trying to achieve need not worry about criticising as they will never walk a mile in her shoes. Undoubtedly looks like she has made some bad choices, but based on others' advice probably. To criticise "May's deal" & it's unacceptability is to criticise the EU too...& the whole of Parliament.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Well it is - their preferred leader would be chosen on the speculation that their said choice would do a better job. Until they are in the job it wouldn't be proven if they could do any better or not would it?
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
How many on here would play same said game with Terry Fisher's pic gleefully & oh so many others on here would find that humourous?
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It was a simple question about someone’s preferred choice of leader, according to your thinking it would be pointless to discuss possibilities of anything.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
France?
Still waiting for the final word on this fiasco. If this 1 year extension is agreed and everything stays as it is now it is on. You will be my first invite to stay. I have my eye on 3 riverside properties on one plot. It has over an acre of land with half the boundary being a river. And only about 90 minutes away from airports where we could get to a game
I’ll get the car loaded up with the Nastro Azzurro and Ichnusa. :emoji_sunglasses:
tisza
Well-Known Member
So basically what Cameron tried to sell before Rees-Mogg and pals wanted a referendum.
Even now only partly right. Could veto a long term budget but if they put a 1 year budget up until uk gone then it goes to QMV.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course people knew what they were voting for.
The thing is nobody voted for the bullshit that has happened since.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Given the turnout it cannot be called a victory, after-all the leavers might have been so disillusioned that the decided not to vote at all. Hardly the will of the people. Nobody knows what they were voting for either as there is no clear way forward at a national level on Brexit...the biggest current issue influencing choice of vote.
So many arguments applicable that echo what many remain arguments have been about the regerendum don't you think?
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Same thing really...I can't see that we disagree then. We speculate on somebody else doing a better job - we can discuss it until the cows come home. Although at the end of it all, we don't choose who would lead the Tories, whilst even the Tories can decide who leads Labour
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They may have known what they were voting for, but not what everyone else was voting for as the leave vote was a blind vote as to how we were going to leave.
No it isn’t. May made her red lines and has stuck to them no matter what others think. The EU has made a deal based on what is possible without altering the whole EU to accommodate a third country.
Which version of leave did 17,4 million agree on? Baring in mind that the government and leave campaign promised a deal that would be good for Britain. Which deal was it?
I have a new passport arriving this week.........still purple but most probably without the European Union mark on the front.................If so and we do end up Remaining and they re-instate that mark.........how much could this collectors item be worth in 20 years ???
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which version of remain did the 16 million agree on? The same one they agreed in 1974?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Apparently it could be either, I’d imagine quite a few of them are going to end up being issued. I also saw that it wasn’t even mandatory to have European Union on the passports either and the UK could have had ‘blue’ passports all along.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure absolutely no one voted for a deal which would leave the UK in the EU in everything but name which is the only option that May is offering.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The EU has an agreement with May that is in the best interest of the EU but not the best interest for the UK. The EU keeps the money rolling in from the UK. The EU keeps selling lots more to the UK than it buys. The only thing that would change mainly would be that May could say she has taken us out of the EU. Freedom of movement would most probably remain. We would most probably still pay for the running of the EU.
Red lines? You talk as though they are the idea of May. But they are the idea of the EU. She is trying to force through the EU plan. Yet you make out it is all the fault of May.
And yet again nobody voted for this. People either voted leave or remain. It wasn't how we leave or how we remain. The May/EU deal isn't either leaving or remaining. Tusk has seen the problems. But a few leaders are still playing along with it. Leave without a deal looks presently off the table. So some think they can go for the throat thinking we will fully remain. Maybe we will. But it is turning into a game of Russian roulette.