dutchman
Well-Known Member
I thought it was Vladimir Putin manipulating all us Brexit voters?
So which one is it, Rupert or Vladimir?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (74 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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So which one is it, Rupert or Vladimir?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Ah yes the elite made people vote Brexit .
Let’s look at the people who want to remain
Theresa may
John major
Tony Blair (war criminal)
Champaign socialists like Gary lineker and liz hurley, Bob geldoff and lily Allen
Massive corporations who want to continue employing people on shit money to feed their own interests .
Yet the media (completely 100% biased also ran by elites and being paid by the EU, see the BBC ) tell us thickos that we are being brainwashed by Nigel farage and Jacob Rees mogg .
Pull the other one ffs , toss pots on both sides end of story
Imagine aligning yourself with a man responsible for millions of deaths and then having the audacity to moan about people who listen to somebody who said mass immigration is bad
Remainers are the elites wet dream
Let’s look at the people who want to remain
Theresa may
John major
Tony Blair (war criminal)
Champaign socialists like Gary lineker and liz hurley, Bob geldoff and lily Allen
Massive corporations who want to continue employing people on shit money to feed their own interests .
Yet the media (completely 100% biased also ran by elites and being paid by the EU, see the BBC ) tell us thickos that we are being brainwashed by Nigel farage and Jacob Rees mogg .
Pull the other one ffs , toss pots on both sides end of story
Imagine aligning yourself with a man responsible for millions of deaths and then having the audacity to moan about people who listen to somebody who said mass immigration is bad
Remainers are the elites wet dream
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
though I voted remain I see the point in a lot of what you're saying but you last line applies to leave voters as well, unless you think Rees Mogg, Farage, Banks etc aren't part of the elite?
In which case you'd be fucking mental. Whatever happens we'll still be ruled by neo liberals in some shape or form who fuck the working man over, I just happen to think the EU version is lesser of two evils.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I don’t buy newspapers anymore but whenever I’m in a shop I’ll always read the headlines for my own amusement and a few weeks ago the Murdock press was full of headlines about how May’s deal was “treasonous” and shouldn’t be voted through, a week later the headlines was all about Bercow being “treasonous” for not allowing a vote on said “treasonous” deal that shouldn’t have been voted through. You’ve got to give it to Murdock, he knows how to tap into the mentality and intellect of his target audience.
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Neoliberals wanted to remain while renowned charlatans wanted to leave. However speaking of wet dreams, it’s those who vote Tory even after they promise to shaft you 3 ways from Sunday and who mindlessly repeat Sun headlines who are the establishment’s wet dream.
The thing is, Corbyn opposes the EU for the corporate reasons you describe. But you’ll call him a prick regardless.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Theresa May has said both the government and labour have consensus on ending fom
Astute
Well-Known Member
But so far it has been what the EU wants and not what the UK wants. All countries in Europe that are tied to the EU didn't ask for FOM. But it was a condition of the deal they got.
The EU has said that FOM would continue until the end of 2020 whilst talks take place on an agreement. So if we leave with an agreement FOM will remain until the end of next year whilst this crap is sorted out. And the EU wants FOM to continue. And I haven't seen anything where it will end if we leave with an agreement.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
They didn't all 'get a deal', they've all signed up to Treaties which are multilateral agreements between the members. FoM is enshrined in a treaty that they've all signed as members, which originated as the Treaty of Rome but is now the Treaty for the Functioning of the European Union.
Both.
All 27 other countries are members of the EU. Not tied to the EU. The EU is the 27 countries and UK. You always talk of the EU as if it is a foreign body. It isn’t.
Unfortunately. Yes.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Well it certainly isn't British and it isn't Dutch either!
How much of the media does Blair or Major own? How rich are they compared with the Mercer Family, the Koch Family, the Murdoch family, the Trump family? Who worked with Cambridge Analytics? These people are behind massive corporations with the vested interest of keeping people like yourself available to work to make them more money. Rees Mogg is small fry, but has the same aims. Farage laps up the fame and money and is a willing helper. Major putting out warnings through a couple of interviews is no comparison to the richest people in the world working to form a society to fit their aims and personal beliefs.
Blair happens to be on the same side as me, but I am not a follower. Leavers have much more to answer for by their praise of the likes of Trump, Farage, BoJo and the long list of dodgy and repulsive characters that are dribbling at the prospect of Brexit. Shameful.
It is in fact, but not in your blinkered right wing point of view.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
It's the enemy, to be destroyed by any means at our disposal.
Well, I am in Cov now. There is 4,5% unemployment. Which counts as full employment in economic terms.
I have been served almost entirely in the last few days by migrants. Both EU and Asian. Take them out and you won’t be able to fill the service jobs.
Either you get less choice of goods and services, or the price of them goes up.
And you want to destroy the organisation which provides the labour and the imported goods at a cheap price due to competition and frictionless trade?
Why? You want to make life more expensive and take away UK citizens FOM. What a dumb thing to do.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
You don't know what I want or what will happen so stop pretending you do.
You just said what must happen. I assumed that is your wish. If not why say it?
dutchman
Well-Known Member
No, you assumed that is the outcome when you have no way of knowing whether it is or isn't.
„It's the enemy, to be destroyed by any means at our disposal.“ Pretty obvious that means the end of FOM, CU and SM as the EU won’t be there after you and your extreme right mates have destroyed the organisation.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
This is what happens when vague, superficial platitudes are sold as quick solutions. You take whatever meaning you want from them and feel part of something. 'Take back control' means a million things to a million people but everyone expects their own interpretation to be implemented. The charlatans who sold this crap should be taking the lion's share of the guilt for this.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So treaties are not deals?
noun
plural noun: treaties
- a formally concluded and ratified agreement between states.
"the two Presidents signed a ten-year treaty of solidarity"
synonyms: agreement, settlement, pact, deal, entente, concordat, accord, concord, protocol, compact, convention, contract, covenant, bargain, pledge;More
Astute
Well-Known Member
So members of the EU are not tied to the EU?
So if we are not tied to the EU why is it so difficult to leave? And don't try blaming it on the clueless MP's, PM and all those involved.
If we were not tied to the EU why can't there be a trade deal without keeping ties?
It is amazing sometimes what some are willing to come out with to try and make someone look wrong or make themselves look right.
FP said they didn’t get a deal, they signed a multilateral agreement. Which is not the same thing as getting a deal negotiated for each country with a body. The UK is trying to get a deal with the body as a third country. The deal will be bespoke, and yes, will probably tie the country to the EU because it is in UK interests to be tied to our European neighbours in some form.
The other members are not third countries and are not tied to the EU. They are part of the EU. They are full members. This is the same as May being a member of the Tory party, and the DUP being tied to the Tory party at the moment. The DUP has signed a deal with the Tories and can leave after the deal expires or break the deal and lose the benefits. If May leaves, she will lose more than she gains. She would be on her own in a distressed position. So you could say she cannot leave, although she has the right to do so.
The UK can leave the EU easily with no deal. The only thing stopping that is not the EU, but the fact that it would be madness, which is why parliament won’t allow it.
Despite the desperate liars like RM and Billy Bunter ( the fat guy who talks crap and wants another no confidence vote against May: Mark Francois ).
Astute
Well-Known Member
So you are saying that full members of the EU are not tied to the EU?
So who are these other countries you talk about?
You can be in the EU's Single Market, but not the EU, this is what Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein do.
The European Union's single market is perhaps the most ambitious type of trade co-operation. That's because as well as eliminating tariffs, quotas or taxes on trade, it also includes the free movement of goods, services, capital and people.
The customs union goes hand in hand with the single market. It is to do with tariffs for goods outside the EU. What good would there be having the same tariffs for goods from outside the EU if you are not a part of the single market as you wouldn't be able to freely trade as we do now. Yes you don't have to keep to FOM for the customs union. But you do to be a part of the single market.
I suppose we could leave both the single market and customs union. This is as is called a hard Brexit. It could take many years to come to agreements on everything.
So would you like to explain why we would keep to the customs union but still leave the single market. Or would you like to explain how we could stay in the single market but not accept the terms of being in the single market?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Be careful about copying and pasting from the BBC, you’ll be called a Corbyn supporter next
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU but not the Single Market, is it not?
A trade deal keeps us tied in that we have to tie ourselves to trading rules to get a trade deal. Leaving without a trade deal means we have no trading ties, but doesn’t mean we will have no ties with the EU.
We will have to have security ties if we are to control our borders and to extradite or deport criminals. We will have to have military ties, at the very least through NATO. Not to mention things like transport of atomic waste, and isotopes for medical use, and medicine development and testing... and potentially loads of other necessary ties.
The RM and Mark Francois version of no ties relates solely to being able to import sub EU standards goods, especially agricultural products without contravening EU regulations. They have not mentioned other fields, or how that will make trade with Europe much more difficult through increased border checks to stop the reexport of sub EU standard goods and foodstuffs to our biggest trading partner. RM and co ( e.g. Tim Martin) talk about cheap imports, in the knowledge that UK manufacturing and agriculture will decline, but I don’t know what specific products they expect us to export, or how the loss of jobs in manufacturing will be replaced elsewhere. Haven’t heard that side of the argument from them.
Their ignorance ( presumably deliberate ignorance, although that is not a given) is shown by the way they play down the significance of the UK border in Ireland, or the fact that there is a Swiss Customs Border which causes delays and extra costs for businesses, whilst pushing how simple it is for private travel at the Swiss border ( due to Schengen which we are not a member of ). They obviously don’t praise Schengen for that as they don’t want people to see it as positive.
They just want an economic free for all. No mention from RM of the environment, health and safety, employees rights etc., apart from deregulation to make life cheaper and easier for business. The EU regulates these fields which is good for business owners or hedge fund part owners, but not so for most people. Amazing that so many of the less well off follow the likes of Farage and Tommy as populist leaders, to demand that they get screwed over by the wealthy.
What do we want? Less protection! When do we want it? Now!
I am saying full members are in the EU, not tied to it, but in it.
As for the rest, I didn’t dispute most of it. I didn’t mention any other countries. I just said we will be a third country.
Third country: Third-country economic relationships with the European Union - Wikipedia
I didn’t mention other countries. Have you understood „being a third country“ as meaning there are two others? I have tried to explain to you what a „third country“ is in my last post.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I did one paragraph to make sure the details were correct. Because I know what you and others are like. One sentence wrong so the whole post is incorrect.Be careful about copying and pasting from the BBC, you’ll be called a Corbyn supporter next
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU but not the Single Market, is it not?
Yes Turkey is in the customs union but not single market. They are trying to get into the single market and eventually as a member of the EU. Are you going to try and dispute this? Why do they want to be more than just in the customs union?
Astute
Well-Known Member
So you agree with me Mart
Astute
Well-Known Member
So the other members you mentioned are not countries?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I follow a former leaver on Twitter who wrote a blog on this, called it 'simplism'. The leave campaign especially distill every Brexit issue into a simplistic decision related back to leave or not.