The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (136 Viewers)

[djr8369]

How could the EU not accept a no deal other than offering something better than they dictated to us already?

It is the EU that gave the take it or leave it ultimatum. But May couldn't push it through. Hardly anyone wanted it from either side in the UK. So something needs to change and quickly. Or no deal it is.

What do you think could be changed in the previous deal?


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[Sick Boy]

Do I believe what?

You preach to us on how harder it will be for us to sell to the other EU countries if we leave without a deal. So the same must be the other way.

But it puts the other side across that you refuse to acknowledge. Or would you like to point out which of it isn't true?

Where have I preached that? I’ve said that both sides need a deal to happen, of course they do. I’ve also spoken about the need to work on a solution to unite the country and suggested the EEA as an option.

What is going on now is going to lead to an even bigger division and blaming the EU is refusing to acknowledge and accept responsibility as a country.

I’m talking about the EU refusing to negotiate during the talks, it simply isn’t true and is the sort of rhetoric the likes of Johnson are coming out with now. The language he is using is becoming more and more like that of Salvini.

We are going through something which is going to impact the country for years, yet we have idiots in charge and no one much better in opposition, it’s thoroughly depressing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes the PM can with Parliamentary approval. Surely though, simple supply & demand should come into play. And yes I am all for no subsidies for low earners.

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In the USA, wages are far behind where they would be if they matched not just inflation but also worker productivity. Because employers can get away with paying less, they do.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The law enforcement stuff is a token gesture that won’t amount to much. It’s been widely debunked by those working in the sector.

But if we’re all willing to pay more for food then maybe our workers will be willing to pick the fruit. Mind you, higher food prices was just project fear though, wasn’t it?


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Higher prices here straight away means importing becomes more attractive to suppliers...so the fruit pickers in the UK currently might move to where the fruit picking pays them.

It is something of a stereotype though to assume only cheap-labour from the EU fills such posts don't you think?

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[SkyblueBazza]

Development of fruit picking robots is moving quickly. This will mean you won’t have to hear Polish accents but it’s going to be very disruptive when automation hits jobs where British people work at scale.


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Yes...so fruit pickers suffer the same way as most other functions. Technology is progress unless you are performing a thinking role or on the receiving end of it's introduction

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[djr8369]

Higher prices here straight away means importing becomes more attractive to suppliers...so the fruit pickers in the UK currently might move to where the fruit picking pays them.

It is something of a stereotype though to assume only cheap-labour from the EU fills such posts don't you think?

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That’s true so then our fruit growers here start to go out of business?

It is a stereotype but also what the fruit growers themselves are saying.


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[Sick Boy]

If wages and conditions for fruit pickers are improved then people in similarly low paid positions are going to want more money too, including jobs where there isn’t the option to import a product.

 

[Sick Boy]

That’s true so then our fruit growers here start to go out of business?

It is a stereotype but also what the fruit growers themselves are saying.


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As people within the government have said, “fuck business” and “businesses going under is a price worth paying”.

 

[Astute]

Well the employment rate is pretty good, on paper at least, so no it doesn’t seem anything to do with that.


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So having a lack of skilled workers in many sectors doesn't matter as the employment rate is pretty good?

 

[Astute]

Where have I preached that? I’ve said that both sides need a deal to happen, of course they do. I’ve also spoken about the need to work on a solution to unite the country and suggested the EEA as an option.

What is going on now is going to lead to an even bigger division and blaming the EU is refusing to acknowledge and accept responsibility as a country.

I’m talking about the EU refusing to negotiate during the talks, it simply isn’t true and is the sort of rhetoric the likes of Johnson are coming out with now. The language he is using is becoming more and more like that of Salvini.

We are going through something which is going to impact the country for years, yet we have idiots in charge and no one much better in opposition, it’s thoroughly depressing.

You have preached that no deal will be a disaster for us but not for the countries in the EU as everything is well spread about.

 

[Astute]

What do you think could be changed in the previous deal?


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Anything can be changed. The problem is that the EU only breaks rules, regulations and laws to do what they want. That is unless it is to do with the German car sector.

 

[shmmeee]

Development of fruit picking robots is moving quickly. This will mean you won’t have to hear Polish accents but it’s going to be very disruptive when automation hits jobs where British people work at scale.


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Where do you think the car industry jobs went? And most of the retail ones.

Once that bricklaying robot and 3D printed houses are good enough, lights off warehouses become popular, and self driving cargo is sorted so many working class Brits are fucked.

 

[shmmeee]

Anything can be changed. The problem is that the EU only breaks rules, regulations and laws to do what they want. That is unless it is to do with the German car sector.

What makes you think anything can be changed and why do you think there’s an appetite for it?

This is Sisu all over again. Act like a spoiled brat, insult and harass your negotiating partner, then complain they won’t go out of their way to give you a special deal.

 

[Grendel]

Where do you think the car industry jobs went? And most of the retail ones.

Once that bricklaying robot and 3D printed houses are good enough, lights off warehouses become popular, and self driving cargo is sorted so many working class Brits are fucked.

What are you droning on about now?

The motor industry employs 186,000 people - 60,000 more than 10 years ago

 

[djr8369]

So having a lack of skilled workers in many sectors doesn't matter as the employment rate is pretty good?

Of course it’s a problem. That’s why immigration is needed and won’t be reduced anywhere near as much as some people hope.


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[djr8369]

Anything can be changed. The problem is that the EU only breaks rules, regulations and laws to do what they want. That is unless it is to do with the German car sector.

So specifically what can be changed and what would be the alternative arrangement?


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[shmmeee]

Of course it’s a problem. That’s why immigration is needed and won’t be reduced anywhere near as much as some people hope.


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Has any major party actually claimed they will reduce immigration? I haven’t heard t from Johnson, which considering he’s in campaign mode suggests it’s not a priority or even on his radar.

 

[djr8369]

Has any major party actually claimed they will reduce immigration? I haven’t heard t from Johnson, which considering he’s in campaign mode suggests it’s not a priority or even on his radar.

Recently? No.


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[skybluetony176]

Recently? No.


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Boris has mentioned an Australian points based system. IIRC you need 60 points to get into Australia so if you know how to pick fruit of a tree 30 points, can you lift a crate that weighs upto 25 kgs 30 points and you’re in. Can you make coffee 30 points, can you write a name on the side of a paper cup 30 points and you’re in. Can you let us have your measurements so a carehome uniform can be ordered for you 30 points, can you change a bed 30 points and you’re in. It will be bollocks, because it will have to be.

 

[Sick Boy]

You have preached that no deal will be a disaster for us but not for the countries in the EU as everything is well spread about.

No I’ve not, you’re getting confused with someone else. It’s in both sides interests to get a deal but the UK would be more effected than the EU as a whole, while some countries would be impacted badly, such as Ireland.

 

[Sick Boy]

Has any major party actually claimed they will reduce immigration? I haven’t heard t from Johnson, which considering he’s in campaign mode suggests it’s not a priority or even on his radar.

No, Johnson has said he isn’t interested in reducing it.

 

[djr8369]

Boris has mentioned an Australian points based system. IIRC you need 60 points to get into Australia so if you know how to pick fruit of a tree 30 points, can you lift a crate that weighs upto 25 kgs 30 points and you’re in. Can you make coffee 30 points, can you write a name on the side of a paper cup 30 points and you’re in. Can you let us have your measurements so a carehome uniform can be ordered for you 30 points, can you change a bed 30 points and you’re in. It will be bollocks, because it will have to be.

Yeah, smoke and mirrors just so they can say they’ve done something.


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[SkyblueBazza]

That’s true so then our fruit growers here start to go out of business?

It is a stereotype but also what the fruit growers themselves are saying.


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If they don't have initiative to change how they use their land resource I guess they will

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[djr8369]

If they don't have initiative to change how they use their land resource I guess they will

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Indeed. Imagine that happening across almost every niche in every sector of the economy.


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[Astute]

Where do you think the car industry jobs went? And most of the retail ones.

Once that bricklaying robot and 3D printed houses are good enough, lights off warehouses become popular, and self driving cargo is sorted so many working class Brits are fucked.

And record employment in the UK still?

 

[Astute]

What makes you think anything can be changed and why do you think there’s an appetite for it?

This is Sisu all over again. Act like a spoiled brat, insult and harass your negotiating partner, then complain they won’t go out of their way to give you a special deal.

What a surprise. A remain whatever can only see it from one angle.

So why can't anything be changed?

 

[Astute]

Of course it’s a problem. That’s why immigration is needed and won’t be reduced anywhere near as much as some people hope.


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Who said it would be reduced?

Are you missing the point on purpose? A certain amount of people arriving need a certain amount of professionals to provide them with what they need. If they can't be provided there is a shortage. If you have a choice on who is admitted you can control the situation. Presently we have no control.

 

[Astute]

So specifically what can be changed and what would be the alternative arrangement?


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Specifically what can't be changed?

 

[djr8369]

Specifically what can't be changed?

Well as widely discussed it’s extremely difficult to change the backstop.

You’re the one suggesting changes should be made. What changes do you think there should be?


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[SkyblueBazza]

If wages and conditions for fruit pickers are improved then people in similarly low paid positions are going to want more money too, including jobs where there isn’t the option to import a product.

So you are confusing me now.

Do you want EU fruit pickers in the UK picking fruit?

Do you want fruit pickers in the UK to be paid on a supply & demand rate rather than a minimum wage then subsidised by handouts from the benefits system?

Do you want people in the UK the same prices as they currently do for the fruit picked in the UK?

Seriously, you cannot have it all ways! You have to prioritise what you want & go for it.

For all the wins there are eventual losses in equal measure somewhere in the chain.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Indeed. Imagine that happening across almost every niche in every sector of the economy.


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As I have said ad-nausea there will be winners & losers. The winners are the ones that seek out opportunities & take advantage of the circumstance. That has always been the case. Brexit will simply concentrate the process.

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[Astute]

No I’ve not, you’re getting confused with someone else. It’s in both sides interests to get a deal but the UK would be more effected than the EU as a whole, while some countries would be impacted badly, such as Ireland.

Oh no I am not.

You purposefully said I said something I hadn't then tried to change the subject when I asked you to show where I have said it. Then when eventually back on subject you said nowhere in France would be badly affected. So I gave you links which proved the effect in France and the EU. You called it utter bullshit. I asked you to shiw evidence. Yet another ignored question.

I still stick with what I have said through this debacle. They won't offer anything until the last minute. They have people like yourself who would accept any sort of bad deal as long as they get what they want. And the EU is hoping that they get the last say.

 

[Sick Boy]

Oh no I am not.

You purposefully said I said something I hadn't then tried to change the subject when I asked you to show where I have said it. Then when eventually back on subject you said nowhere in France would be badly affected. So I gave you links which proved the effect in France and the EU. You called it utter bullshit. I asked you to shiw evidence. Yet another ignored question.

I still stick with what I have said through this debacle. They won't offer anything until the last minute. They have people like yourself who would accept any sort of bad deal as long as they get what they want. And the EU is hoping that they get the last say.

Yet more nonsense, I’ve never said France wouldn’t be impacted by Brexit.

I’d accept any sort of deal?

Yet more lies and bullshit.

I’ve said that the EEA would be a fair compromise.

 

[Astute]

Well as widely discussed it’s extremely difficult to change the backstop.

You’re the one suggesting changes should be made. What changes do you think there should be?


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Why can't the backstop be changed? The technology is there.

The reason for it not being removed is we would be tied to the EU until they say we could leave. That is what it was designed for.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why can't the backstop be changed? The technology is there.

The reason for it not being removed is we would be tied to the EU until they say we could leave. That is what it was designed for.

What’s the technology then? You’re wasted on here, I’m surprised you haven’t been headhunted to solve Brexit.

You should get in touch with them ASAP
Technological solution to Irish border issue could be a decade away, says Home Office document