The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (5 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hard brexit. Which is not the manifesto May was elected on. She was elected on a manifesto of getting a deal. Labour also stood on a manifesto of getting a deal. Did any party actually stand on a manifesto of no deal and win a seat?

 

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[Astute]

Why did you laugh when it clearly is?

It’s about time you showed some of your self proclaimed ability to see both sides.


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Both sides?

Someone who is ignoring the majority gets pissed off because they are getting ignored themself yet they can't understand why so many people are pissed off.

 

[Astute]

We have a representative democracy. It’s literally impossible for elected representatives to go against the will of the people.

If the will of the people was hard Brexit, May wouldn’t have lost her majority

What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.

 

[djr8369]

What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.

How many times - the mandate was for a better deal than we have now.


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[Astute]

Lol G has claimed:

• There is only 1 way to achieve an early general election
• The Queen has no ability to stop proroguing of Parliament
• The Lords and monarch have no scrutiny over legislation from the Commons
• The Commons represents our democracy but Johnson is right to suspend it so he can force through Brexit

Of course you'll pick him up on these claims.

1, There are several ways that an early general election can be called. But they all depend on the situation.

2, The queen never gets involved in politics. She needs to be seen as impartial.

3, The Lords would stop Brexit if they could.

4, I don't think BJ should have suspended parliament to be able to push it through. But democracy has gone out the window with Brexit. Look at how many people constantly shout for an undemocratic ending to Brexit but quote democracy when it suits.

 

[skybluetony176]

What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.

So basically you’re saying that we can leave the EU and join the EEA and leavers won’t moan about it. Let’s do that then.

 

[Astute]

How many times - the mandate was for a better deal than we have now.


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How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.

 

[skybluetony176]

1, There are several ways that an early general election can be called. But they all depend on the situation.

Can you please point that out to Grendull, he’s the one saying otherwise.

 

[shmmeee]

What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.

Why are you stuck in 2016?

We had a general election. The country decided who it wants to represent them. That’s more recent, more constitutional and more relevant than the 2016 referendum.

 

[shmmeee]

How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.

Neither major party ran on either in or out. Why are you making shit up like google doesn’t index back to 2017?

 

[Grendel]

I’m only quoting your own evidence. You presented it as fact not me. Did you actually read it past the headline? The devil is in the details and you seem to be lacking an eye for that. Go back and read your own evidence. Twice, at least. Then give it an hour or two to digest, then read again.

I don’t have to Tony but I will tweet Andrew and say you can confirm he is reading the legislation incorrectly - oh I’ll also tell him he was talking out his arse on the pork pie debate

 

[Astute]

Precedent is hardly relevant in unprecedented times. He is using one process to run down the clock and deny another.


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Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.

 

[skybluetony176]

How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.

Who campaigning for leave campaigned for a no deal brexit? No one. Who campaigned for leave on the premise that we’ll have our cake and eat it because the Germans will want to sell us cars and the French wine and cheese? Everyone. The PM even said it again last week.

 

[Astute]

Neither major party ran on either in or out. Why are you making shit up like google doesn’t index back to 2017?

So what was on your ballot paper?

Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, medium Brexit, any old Brexit and remain?

 

[skybluetony176]

I don’t have to Tony but I will tweet Andrew and say you can confirm he is reading the legislation incorrectly - oh I’ll also tell him he was talking out his arse on the pork pie debate

He probably isn’t. You’ve probably just misunderstood what he actually said and are now misrepresenting it. As you have with your BBC link.

 

[shmmeee]

So what was on your ballot paper?

Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, medium Brexit, any old Brexit and remain?

Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, Green, some others I think. You?

If you’re on about the 2016 referendum because apparently historical votes take precedence now? It was about the EU, not the SM, CU, or anything else. Take it up with the ERG who have been blocking that happening.

 

[shmmeee]

Ever relevant:

 

[Grendel]

Lol G has claimed:

• There is only 1 way to achieve an early general election
• The Queen has no ability to stop proroguing of Parliament
• The Lords and monarch have no scrutiny over legislation from the Commons
• The Commons represents our democracy but Johnson is right to suspend it so he can force through Brexit

Of course you'll pick him up on these claims.

The notion you want 500 years of sovereignty to be overwritten by the monarchy because you don’t like the government action is hilarious

There is only one way to achieve an election - not my problem Corbyn has no balls to get of his arse and try and force Johnson out is it

 

[martcov]

Yes it’s hilarious to see the dramatic change in the attitude of the EU leaders.

Six months ago, dealing with the cowering, feeble May, they had the UK exactly where they wanted us.
Pipsqueak politicians like Macron, Varadkar and Tusk knew that they could treat May with contempt and she’d still come back for more.

Now they see us confidently making preparations to leave in a couple of months regardless of them and engaged in talks with Trump and others.
Suddenly they look like the ones on the fringes.

?

 

[Astute]

Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, Green, some others I think. You?

If you’re on about the 2016 referendum because apparently historical votes take precedence now? It was about the EU, not the SM, CU, or anything else. Take it up with the ERG who have been blocking that happening.

 

[shmmeee]

View attachment 12929

Yep. May negotiated that and the ERG voted it down. What’s your point?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The notion you want 500 years of sovereignty to be overwritten by the monarchy because you don’t like the government action is hilarious

There is only one way to achieve an election - not my problem Corbyn has no balls to get of his arse and try and force Johnson out is it

It goes beyond not liking it, Johnson is trying to stifle Parliament to force through something we all know will hurt the country. Or do we just allow crap to happen in the name of tradition?

In any case the Queen has allowed it just as she allowed Blair to wage an illegal war

 

[shmmeee]

Yes it’s hilarious to see the dramatic change in the attitude of the EU leaders.

Six months ago, dealing with the cowering, feeble May, they had the UK exactly where they wanted us.
Pipsqueak politicians like Macron, Varadkar and Tusk knew that they could treat May with contempt and she’d still come back for more.

Now they see us confidently making preparations to leave in a couple of months regardless of them and engaged in talks with Trump and others.
Suddenly they look like the ones on the fringes.

I have to know. What news media do you consume to come up with this distorted view of reality?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.

Do you want a decision to be carried out even if all evidence points to it being a mistake?

 

[djr8369]

Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.

It’s not denying democracy. It’s denying a twisted interpretation of a tampered referendum.



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[Grendel]

Yep. May negotiated that and the ERG voted it down. What’s your point?

Lol the ERG haven’t more MPs than labour surely

 

[shmmeee]

Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.

We. Don’t. Have. Direct. Democracy. In. The. UK. We. Have. Representative. Democracy.

FFS

 

[Grendel]

It’s not denying democracy. It’s denying a twisted interpretation of a tampered referendum.



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A tampered referendum - how childish you sound. Remind me how many MPs were elected in 2017 to deliver the result of that referendum

 

[djr8369]

So what was on your ballot paper?

Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, medium Brexit, any old Brexit and remain?

Do you really think this argument has any weight whatsoever?



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[Grendel]

Do you really think this argument has any weight whatsoever?



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Well it has more than yours

 

[djr8369]

How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.

Are you really this malleable?

What do you think the fucking referendum campaign was for? The whole policy detail isn’t on the ballot paper.

The leave campaigners campaigned for a better deal with access to the single market. There is no mandate for no deal.


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[shmmeee]

Uh oh, Johnson going against the will of the people!! I expect the “democracy” fans in this thread will be calling for his head!

 

[djr8369]

A tampered referendum - how childish you sound. Remind me how many MPs were elected in 2017 to deliver the result of that referendum

That’s not childish it’s fact.


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[djr8369]

Uh oh, Johnson going against the will of the people!! I expect the “democracy” fans in this thread will be calling for his head!

G is going to smash his personal best for absurd contradictions today, that’s for sure.


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[skybluetony176]

View attachment 12929

So it doesn’t say vote to leave the CU or single market?