The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (87 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

The government has just lost a vote on handing over conversations by government members and staff regarding Brexit and they’re quoting the EU human rights as a reason not to do it. Priceless.

 

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[skybluetony176]

And have regressed to going on about ‘the squeaker’.

Don’t forget the dribblers.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Then they grew up

Are you saying that they voted wanting to leave Europe when they were young but now they've grown up they want to stay?

Or that they still want to leave Europe, only now they want to nuke the fucker as well for good measure?

Or perhaps all that was just consequential because all they were really voting for was whoever promised them the most stuff in the next five minutes, because that's apparently what young people do?

 

[shmmeee]

The government has just lost a vote on handing over conversations by government members and staff regarding Brexit and they’re quoting the EU human rights as a reason not to do it. Priceless.

Don’t know why they bother. So many loopholes and “accidental” file deletions that can get them out of revealing anything they don’t want to. Not like the Leave side hasn’t got significant experience of hiding incriminating digital evidence

 

[CCFCSteve]

In what is in essence a 2 party system would a young person vote for the party that:

1. Provides real terms cuts to education budgets
2. Takes away EMA and maintenance grants
3. Hikes tuition fees
4. Denies living wages to the under 25s
5. Cuts funding for youth services

Or one that pledges the opposite alongside many other popular policies? The real question is why do so many vote for a party that openly pledges to shaft the public

Bit of a narrow view BSB ! I agree though that if the Tories want to stay relevant they need to do more to secure the young vote. You’re correct it isn’t just about tuition fees bribe, it’s about hope and owning your own property. Two things the tories ‘should’ be able to address for them.

What I have always found interesting though is that the young voted overwhelming for remain, yet open borders has certainly not helped house prices (one of, if not, the main issue). Without calculating the precise numbers Im guessing net migration over the past 20 years has been 5m minimum (not counting additional births). People will say ‘build more houses’ but even if successive governments (labour and tories) had pushed for more it’s very difficult to build enough to meet that kind of additional demand. I’ve not checked the correlation with average house prices but of course there would be some due to basic supply and demand.

To be fair to the Tories they have also addressed the ‘buy to let’ issue to try to free up more housing stock.

Ps the above isn’t an anti immigration rant. I’ve always said controlled migration is good for the country but when the infrastructure/public services can’t keep pace, it then becomes a problem

 

[CCFCSteve]

I

It reminds me of that exceedingly richer character in Harry Enfield "Yow don't have to speak the lingo, the only language these people understand is the language of money"
The obsession with not paying the £39bn shows that obsession is on our side.

Like it or not, it’s about the only ‘leverage’ we have though Fernando. Obviously not the amount that is truly owed (never seen the actual number) but there is an additional amount that is up for discussion and I’m sure would cause some pain/effect if it wasn’t paid.

As I’ve said before, I would have agreed it but said an element would be tied into finalising a trade deal, therefore incentivising everyone to get one agreed quickly (and addressing the ‘we’ll be locked into the backstop forever’ nonsense argument)

 

[CCFCSteve]

Ps not been much (if any !) good news lately so positive that July economic figures were far more positive than expected. Pound is finally going a little bit in the right direction as well....makes a change !

 

[fernandopartridge]

Bit of a narrow view BSB ! I agree though that if the Tories want to stay relevant they need to do more to secure the young vote. You’re correct it isn’t just about tuition fees bribe, it’s about hope and owning your own property. Two things the tories ‘should’ be able to address for them.

What I have always found interesting though is that the young voted overwhelming for remain, yet open borders has certainly not helped house prices (one of, if not, the main issue). Without calculating the precise numbers Im guessing net migration over the past 20 years has been 5m minimum (not counting additional births). People will say ‘build more houses’ but even if successive governments (labour and tories) had pushed for more it’s very difficult to build enough to meet that kind of additional demand. I’ve not checked the correlation with average house prices but of course there would be some due to basic supply and demand.

To be fair to the Tories they have also addressed the ‘buy to let’ issue to try to free up more housing stock.

Ps the above isn’t an anti immigration rant. I’ve always said controlled migration is good for the country but when the infrastructure/public services can’t keep pace, it then becomes a problem

How many migrants from the EU are homeowners? Report I've read suggests 42% compared with 69% of the UK born population. Whilst migration has had an impact the biggest issue is cost and under supply of housing + oversupply of cheap money (the buy to let boom) are equally as big a problem.
I read an interesting book about the big housebuilders and their absolute control over the market. Still, they're all donors so nothing to see here....

 

[CCFCSteve]

How many migrants from the EU are homeowners? Report I've read suggests 42% compared with 69% of the UK born population. Whilst migration has had an impact the biggest issue is cost and under supply of housing + oversupply of cheap money (the buy to let boom) are equally as big a problem.
I read an interesting book about the big housebuilders and their absolute control over the market. Still, they're all donors so nothing to see here....

I haven’t suggested it’s the only issue and am fully aware of the house builders/developers hoarding land (I think there’s been talk of bringing in laws of having to build on development land within a sensible period which would be worth exploring), however, 42% is still a lot of people and the other 58% would have helped support the ‘buy to let’ boom !

Either way an extra 250k-300k needing housing every year would not have helped suppress house prices !

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Bit of a narrow view BSB ! I agree though that if the Tories want to stay relevant they need to do more to secure the young vote. You’re correct it isn’t just about tuition fees bribe, it’s about hope and owning your own property. Two things the tories ‘should’ be able to address for them.

What I have always found interesting though is that the young voted overwhelming for remain, yet open borders has certainly not helped house prices (one of, if not, the main issue). Without calculating the precise numbers Im guessing net migration over the past 20 years has been 5m minimum (not counting additional births). People will say ‘build more houses’ but even if successive governments (labour and tories) had pushed for more it’s very difficult to build enough to meet that kind of additional demand. I’ve not checked the correlation with average house prices but of course there would be some due to basic supply and demand.

To be fair to the Tories they have also addressed the ‘buy to let’ issue to try to free up more housing stock.

Ps the above isn’t an anti immigration rant. I’ve always said controlled migration is good for the country but when the infrastructure/public services can’t keep pace, it then becomes a problem

It isn’t really a narrow view, what incentive is there for me to vote for them? They are on course to produce 3 of the worst PMs since the war and their decade in office can only be described as a failure. Why would I vote for a party that pledges not to give me a pay rise and to make my job harder?

 

[skybluetony176]

Ps not been much (if any !) good news lately so positive that July economic figures were far more positive than expected. Pound is finally going a little bit in the right direction as well....makes a change !

Yeah the pound went up of the back of Parliament voting to block no deal.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Either way an extra 250k-300k needing housing every year would not have helped suppress house prices !

I agree. Which makes one wonder why non-EU migration hasn’t been tackled and why we have made little effort to utilise the existing EU powers we had to manage migration from there.

 

[skybluetony176]

BBC news suggesting that Boris’ “big plan” is May’s deal Mk1. The one that the DUP rejected saying that Northern Ireland can’t be different from the rest of the U.K.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I agree. Which makes one wonder why non-EU migration hasn’t been tackled and why we have made little effort to utilise the existing EU powers we had to manage migration from there.

I’m might be wrong but do the non EU migration numbers include a significant proportion of students ?

Also I think I have mentioned on here before the current EU powers are limited and I’m guessing are a legal nightmare to implement as from memory it relates to the individual ‘contributing to society’ (after a specific period ie three months) so I guess even a very low paid job would count. I’m not knocking that but my point being that even with these EU powers its v difficult to control numbers

 

[CCFCSteve]

BBC news suggesting that Boris’ “big plan” is May’s deal Mk1. The one that the DUP rejected saying that Northern Ireland can’t be different from the rest of the U.K.

I’d read something similar yesterday. As he’s not got a majority anyway he doesn’t need to be as concerned about the DUP support

Still not sure it gets through.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Yeah the pound went up of the back of Parliament voting to block no deal.

That was last week. The economic figures today helped today (remember there’s still a lot of noise about Johnson wriggling out of the blocking of no deal - can’t see it myself though)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m might be wrong but do the non EU migration numbers include a significant proportion of students ?

Also I think I have mentioned on here before the current EU powers are limited and I’m guessing are a legal nightmare to implement as from memory it relates to the individual ‘contributing to society’ (after a specific period ie three months) so I guess even a very low paid job would count. I’m not knocking that but my point being that even with these EU powers its v difficult to control numbers

Even if students are included this still places strain on residential housing as a wander through Coventry will show. It is also quite within our remit to control it but because they bring in much more money it has gone unfettered.

 

[Sick Boy]

Also I think I have mentioned on here before the current EU powers are limited and I’m guessing are a legal nightmare to implement as from memory it relates to the individual ‘contributing to society’ (after a specific period ie three months) so I guess even a very low paid job would count. I’m not knocking that but my point being that even with these EU powers its v difficult to control numbers

It’s about being able to support yourself and not being a burden on the state.

You need to produce an employment, property rental contract and a couple of pay slips from that country.

In Italy the police then come to your house and check you live there and check your documents.

The UK is a sharp contrast to that.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That was last week. The economic figures today helped today (remember there’s still a lot of noise about Johnson wriggling out of the blocking of no deal - can’t see it myself though)

In general has the pound fared better or worse due to Brexit?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Even if students are included this still places strain on residential housing as a wander through Coventry will show. It is also quite within our remit to control it but because they bring in much more money it has gone unfettered.

I agree BSB, as I’ve said some element of control over immigration is required. Let’s be honest I’m not sure if any government has ever had the will to address it properly.

There are many dynamics at play though, the need for cheaper labour to help support aging population, need for certain skilled workforce etc etc

My only point about the EU migration is it was and always would be (limited powers aside) going to be uncontrolled. They’re the rules.

 

[CCFCSteve]

In general has the pound fared better or worse due to Brexit?

A lot worse. I wasn’t suggesting for a minute it hasn’t. I was just highlighting a semblance of good news for once (surely you can give me that !)

It will be interesting to see where the pound goes IF a deal is done though and some of the uncertainty is removed

 

[CCFCSteve]

It’s about being able to support yourself and not being a burden on the state.

You need to produce an employment, property rental contract and a couple of pay slips from that country.

In Italy the police then come to your house and check you live there and check your documents.

The UK is a sharp contrast to that.

But as I say, most have some form of work.

I take the point though (and as I alluded to earlier) we haven’t properly controlled our borders for years

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But as I say, most have some form of work.

I take the point though (and as I alluded to earlier) we haven’t properly controlled our borders for years

That is the point. The issue is have we not controlled our borders properly because the EU don't allow us to, or because as a sovereign government we've chosen not to do so even though we have the power to?

Looking at what other EU nations have the power to do would suggest it's the latter. Leave/Farage/Mail/Express would have us believe it's the former. Why look at our own failings when we can blame someone else.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I haven’t suggested it’s the only issue and am fully aware of the house builders/developers hoarding land (I think there’s been talk of bringing in laws of having to build on development land within a sensible period which would be worth exploring), however, 42% is still a lot of people and the other 58% would have helped support the ‘buy to let’ boom !

Either way an extra 250k-300k needing housing every year would not have helped suppress house prices !

The thing with that law is all they'd need to do is set up a new company and sell the land to it. Then the new company can have it for the same length of time before they do the process again. Legally the owner of the land changes, in reality it's the same people in control. They can sit on the land in perpetuity effectively.

 

[clint van damme]

Bit of a narrow view BSB ! I agree though that if the Tories want to stay relevant they need to do more to secure the young vote. You’re correct it isn’t just about tuition fees bribe, it’s about hope and owning your own property. Two things the tories ‘should’ be able to address for them.

What I have always found interesting though is that the young voted overwhelming for remain, yet open borders has certainly not helped house prices (one of, if not, the main issue). Without calculating the precise numbers Im guessing net migration over the past 20 years has been 5m minimum (not counting additional births). People will say ‘build more houses’ but even if successive governments (labour and tories) had pushed for more it’s very difficult to build enough to meet that kind of additional demand. I’ve not checked the correlation with average house prices but of course there would be some due to basic supply and demand.

To be fair to the Tories they have also addressed the ‘buy to let’ issue to try to free up more housing stock.

Ps the above isn’t an anti immigration rant. I’ve always said controlled migration is good for the country but when the infrastructure/public services can’t keep pace, it then becomes a problem

the tories haven't addressed the buy to let issue, they've just made it more difficult for the small landlord to invest in that market.
The new tax laws have made little difference to the large letting agencies.
Literally the day Osbourn announced the new tax laws, (even though they weren't introduced at that point~), there were reps from letting agencies in London going door to door in Earsldon asking if people wanted to sell.

If you wee been kind you could say they tried to free up more housing stock but I'm about more cynical about their intentions to be honest.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Even if students are included this still places strain on residential housing as a wander through Coventry will show. It is also quite within our remit to control it but because they bring in much more money it has gone unfettered.

If the money they brought in was invested in the right areas...

 

[Astute]

Nothing wrong with my comprehension. My point is that all exit polls in 2017 showed that all 18-24 year old were more likely to vote for Corbyn, not just the 30% that go to university between the ages of 18-21. Same goes for remain.

All?

Work out the maths. 30% go to uni. So only 21% of the remaining 70% remaining is needed. So of course the younger vote goes to those who promise them what they want.

It is easy to promise something that you most probably not be able to give.

 

[Astute]

Young enough not to have lost my marbles, old enough to be able to vote, intelligent enough to have developed the power of critical thought.

And biased enough to only be critical to one side.

 

[Astute]

It’s about being able to support yourself and not being a burden on the state.

You need to produce an employment, property rental contract and a couple of pay slips from that country.

In Italy the police then come to your house and check you live there and check your documents.

The UK is a sharp contrast to that.

Any chance of the whole truth?

The EU has ruled that those landing on the shores of Italy are not allowed to leave. The EU doesn't want them heading for the north of Europe. So now Italy tries to stop them from landing. They would prefer them to drown.

France doesn't have this problem. No proof of employment needed. No payslips. Good job as the wife has retired at 52.

Nobody has come to our house. No documents have been checked. Birth certificate copies and a copy of immunisations were needed for starting school. Proof of address and proof of who you are to open up bank accounts. That is it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And biased enough to only be critical to one side.

lol

 

[fernandopartridge]

lol

He has to keep reminding himself how balanced he is

 

[Sick Boy]

Any chance of the whole truth?

The EU has ruled that those landing on the shores of Italy are not allowed to leave. The EU doesn't want them heading for the north of Europe. So now Italy tries to stop them from landing. They would prefer them to drown.

France doesn't have this problem. No proof of employment needed. No payslips. Good job as the wife has retired at 52.

Nobody has come to our house. No documents have been checked. Birth certificate copies and a copy of immunisations were needed for starting school. Proof of address and proof of who you are to open up bank accounts. That is it.

Why are you bringing up people crossing the sea and fleeing a country to EU migrants?

And actually that c**t Salvini is no longer in government, so expect the hardline position to end.

I’m talking about Italy, i didn’t know you’d moved here as well. Each country has their own individual requirements.

 

[skybluetony176]

All?

Work out the maths. 30% go to uni. So only 21% of the remaining 70% remaining is needed. So of course the younger vote goes to those who promise them what they want.

It is easy to promise something that you most probably not be able to give.

?

 

[Grendel]

All?

Work out the maths. 30% go to uni. So only 21% of the remaining 70% remaining is needed. So of course the younger vote goes to those who promise them what they want.

It is easy to promise something that you most probably not be able to give.

Student population of that age group is much higher anyway it’s closer to 50%

 

[Astute]

lol

Name everything you have been critical of that is remain.

Finished already?