The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (5 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

You make a lot of assumptions about leavers.

More observations of the leave campaigns both official and unofficial and the angry leavers I see every week in the audience (and sometimes panel) on question time who insist that they know what they voted for and leave means leave than assumptions.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

More observations of the leave campaigns both official and unofficial and the angry leavers I see every week in the audience (and sometimes panel) on question time who insist that they know what they voted for and leave means leave than assumptions.

I see lots of angry remoaners , the same way as you see leavers . Do the remainers know what they voted for other than to keep things the same , whatever that involves ? I don't think so.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

We were told it would be the easiest negotiation in history by the man who initially led negotiations

Struth, some of you people believe every word. No wonder you are generally baffled. Though it makes me wonder why you are also so entrenched that I find myself offering counter arguments so frequently.
Naive isn't anywhere close, unless it is childish "he said" holding to account all the time.

If you apply the same zealous approach to noises that come out of the EU you might be less enthisiastic in your pursuit.

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[skybluetony176]

I still don't understand how these TV adverts and Gov.uk can say we are leaving on the 31st October, when it's not 100% confirmed?

That’s not even the ironic thing about it. We’re being told to prepare for something that the government can’t quantify. We have a scenario at work where we proof test something for an Irish company, we arrange collection and return, the items never change ownership and the only thing we invoice is labour. No one and I do mean no one at a government department can tell us what this means for us. Currently the only paperwork we need to move them is a Dangerous Goods Note as the goods are classed as hazardous and there’s a sea crossing and we raise our invoice with no VAT as per the norm when invoicing goods and services between EU countries. We’ve repeatedly spoken to everyone over the last three years from the DTI, customs, chamber of commerce, various shipping companies that we use for both EU and non EU shipping and no one can tell us if the shipments will be subject to tariffs or VAT on entry in either direction on these goods that have never change ownership in the event of a hard Brexit. It’s a joke. Literally no one knows.

 

[skybluetony176]

tbf it's the date set down.

I'm more annoyed that the adverts don't actually *say* anything, so all they're doing is wasting cash - although given the standard of them, I guess it's not much cash!

£100M.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

£100M.

I'm in the wrong industry.

 

[skybluetony176]

I see lots of angry remoaners , the same way as you see leavers . Do the remainers know what they voted for other than to keep things the same , whatever that involves ? I don't think so.

Sorry. Was that tongue in cheek?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I see lots of angry remoaners , the same way as you see leavers . Do the remainers know what they voted for other than to keep things the same , whatever that involves ? I don't think so.

But they would not be the same because of the unwavering desire of the generally faceless EU to edge ever closer to a fully federalist state. Did the original voter in the '75 referendum really vote for what the EC moved on to become??? So did the remain voters know fully what they would have been letting themselves in for? Of course they didn't other than generally going along with what the EU wants to do.

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[Deleted member 5849]

Did the original voter in the '75 referendum really vote for what the EC moved on to become???

One of the first articles in my local paper after the 1975 vote was that now the UK was part of the EEC, there was an increasing likelihood that there would be a single European Currency in the near future, now that Britain was a part of it.

Seems our joining was the catalyst, and there's a certain re-invention going on.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

But they would not be the same because of the unwavering desire of the generally faceless EU to edge ever closer to a fully federalist state. Did the original voter in the '75 referendum really vote for what the EC moved on to become??? So did the remain voters know fully what they would have been letting themselves in for? Of course they didn't other than generally going along with what the EU wants to do.

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Do remainers know what the EU will become in the next 20 years ? For every criticism of leavers, they can throw the same back at remainers, so it's pretty pointless really.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

Those ads are a bit ominous. I'm toying with the idea of stocking up on a years worth of beer just in case things do go tits up.

 

[skybluetony176]

Those ads are a bit ominous. I'm toying with the idea of stocking up on a years worth of beer just in case things do go tits up.

I put my repeat prescription in early.

 

[skybluetony176]

Do remainers know what the EU will become in the next 20 years ? For every criticism of leavers, they can throw the same back at remainers, so it's pretty pointless really.

Whatever it is we’ll probably have rejoined. And lost our veto on the Euro so goodbye pound. Still, at least we’ll be able to keep our blue passports. Just like we always could have.

 

[clint van damme]

I put my repeat prescription in early.

You get beer on prescription?!

 

[SBAndy]

Those ads are a bit ominous. I'm toying with the idea of stocking up on a years worth of beer just in case things do go tits up.

Tried that but drank it all in 4 days.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

There’s nowhere near enough agreements in place. Not to even cover a fraction of what would be lost.


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That we are aware of

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[SkyblueBazza]

“There is nothing in WTO rules that forces anyone to put up border posts,” said WTO spokesman Keith Rockwell on a visit to Dublin last week.

“Someone has to bring a complaint and say that their interests have been hurt.”

can't see it being long before such a complaint arises, the articles give plausible examples.

But you like many others falling prey to the scaremongering of reports about WTO is just as "fake news" as anything levelled at Bojo's efforts really. It is just as feasible that there would not be any complaints raised as it is that there would be!

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[SkyblueBazza]

We were told it would be the easiest negotiation in history by the man who initially led negotiations

Which is not the same thing

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[SkyblueBazza]

One of the first articles in my local paper after the 1975 vote was that now the UK was part of the EEC, there was an increasing likelihood that there would be a single European Currency in the near future, now that Britain was a part of it.

Seems our joining was the catalyst, and there's a certain re-invention going on.

Yes...the key being AFTER the vote

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[SkyblueBazza]

Do remainers know what the EU will become in the next 20 years ? For every criticism of leavers, they can throw the same back at remainers, so it's pretty pointless really.

No they don't - but my suspicion is that many leavers are imagining that for the longer term future, in just the same way that remainers are imagining what they sprak of for the short term future.

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[clint van damme]

But you like many others falling prey to the scaremongering of reports about WTO is just as "fake news" as anything levelled at Bojo's efforts really. It is just as feasible that there would not be any complaints raised as it is that there would be!

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Part the reason I left this thread is it was going round in circles but I think it's fair to say that on at least a dozen occasions I asked what benefits there would be to operating almost entirely under WTO rules and none was forthcoming, (you're welcome to trawl through if you don't believe me).
There's a reason every country in the world tries to get trade deals Signed.

And it isn't feasible that no complaints would be forthcoming. The article paints a scenario using the example of Brazilian beef. There's a reason for that, Brazil wants to sell into our food markets in exchange for a trade deal which would end up crossing the border to the republic and a complaint would be lodged.
watch the BBC documentary the foreign office if you don't believe me.

 

[dutchman]

Part the reason I left this thread is it was going round in circles but I think it's fair to say that on at least a dozen occasions I asked what benefits there would be to operating almost entirely under WTO rules and none was forthcoming

And as I'm sure has been answered before, it's better than May's sell-out deal and also probably better than Boris' warmed-over May sell-out deal but that remains to be seen yet.

 

[skybluetony176]

And as I'm sure has been answered before, it's better than May's sell-out deal and also probably better than Boris' warmed-over May sell-out deal but that remains to be seen yet.

How is it better?

 

[dutchman]

How is it better?

Because May's deal would keep Britain in the EU in everything but name as you already know.

 

[clint van damme]

And as I'm sure has been answered before, it's better than May's sell-out deal and also probably better than Boris' warmed-over May sell-out deal but that remains to be seen yet.

I also said on this thread around the time Mays deal was floated I thought it was worse than no deal and agreed with what Rees mogg said about it. Probably the only time ive agreed with him Perhaps not initially but in the long term I think it would be worse.

 

[skybluetony176]

Because May's deal would keep Britain in the EU in everything but name as you already know.

So how would WTO be better than that?

 

[Ian1779]

So how would WTO be better than that?

Silly boy... you’ve not been paying attention to those record breaking trade deals with Burkina Faso and Swaziland.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Part the reason I left this thread is it was going round in circles but I think it's fair to say that on at least a dozen occasions I asked what benefits there would be to operating almost entirely under WTO rules and none was forthcoming, (you're welcome to trawl through if you don't believe me).
There's a reason every country in the world tries to get trade deals Signed.

And it isn't feasible that no complaints would be forthcoming. The article paints a scenario using the example of Brazilian beef. There's a reason for that, Brazil wants to sell into our food markets in exchange for a trade deal which would end up crossing the border to the republic and a complaint would be lodged.
watch the BBC documentary the foreign office if you don't believe me.

I thought you had left?

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[SkyblueBazza]

Part the reason I left this thread is it was going round in circles but I think it's fair to say that on at least a dozen occasions I asked what benefits there would be to operating almost entirely under WTO rules and none was forthcoming, (you're welcome to trawl through if you don't believe me).
There's a reason every country in the world tries to get trade deals Signed.

And it isn't feasible that no complaints would be forthcoming. The article paints a scenario using the example of Brazilian beef. There's a reason for that, Brazil wants to sell into our food markets in exchange for a trade deal which would end up crossing the border to the republic and a complaint would be lodged.
watch the BBC documentary the foreign office if you don't believe me.

We cannot get trade deals signed until we leave the EU. We can agree them in principle, but we would be foolish to make details of them available to all & sundry (except with agreement just to be able to emphasise the point of their possibility)

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[dutchman]

We cannot get trade deals signed until we leave the EU. We can agree them in principle, but we would be foolish to make details of them available to all & sundry (except with agreement just to be able to emphasise the point of their possibility)

And didn't May's deal also specifically rule out signing any external trade deals?

 

[Astute]

Switzerland is part of the single market.

Are you pretending not to have a clue or do you really not have a clue?

Is Switzerland a full EU member?

Honest answer for once?

Is Switzerland part of the single market?

Unlucky. You have already been truthful.

So you don't have to be a full member to have different rights. This means things can be negotiated. It isn't just in or out as you constantly make out.

Yes I agree different solutions bring different problems. But as Switzerland shows it isn't one size fits all. But nothing can happen until negotiations start. And after 3 and half years they still haven't started. Would you like to explain why?

 

[Astute]

You’ve changed your tune.

Switzerland are part of EFTA and Schengen. We aren’t and won’t be. Switzerland has followed a beaten path. We’re making it up as we go along.

No I haven't changed my time. You don't like my tune so you choose to listen to the tune you like. You refuse to give my tune a chance.

 

[Astute]

More observations of the leave campaigns both official and unofficial and the angry leavers I see every week in the audience (and sometimes panel) on question time who insist that they know what they voted for and leave means leave than assumptions.

The question was leave or remain. It would take a real thick twat to not know what leave or remain meant.

Millions of jobs lost, house price crash and thousands of gravestones if we voted leave. And that was just for starters. It was made to sound like a walk in the park wasn't it.

Most of what was promised didn't happen. Now you wonder why millions don't believe each disaster forecast since.

 

[Astute]

One of the first articles in my local paper after the 1975 vote was that now the UK was part of the EEC, there was an increasing likelihood that there would be a single European Currency in the near future, now that Britain was a part of it.

Seems our joining was the catalyst, and there's a certain re-invention going on.

It was all known about well in advance. But the politicians of the day were too scared to tell us the truth. We covered this in detail before. We voted on remaining in the EEC because it was all about trade.

Then after the vote the truth slowly came out. It was dripfed slowly. The EEC slowly became the EU. But it was all planned many years before.

 

[Astute]

And didn't May's deal also specifically rule out signing any external trade deals?

Which takes us back to the well known EU comment.

We can't have our cake and eat it. We either stay as a part of the EU trade agreement in some way then can't make our own deals or we leave the EU trade deals altogether then make our own around the world.

Some people seem to think we can have both. But that would mean items we brought into the UK from outside the EU would then be suddenly inside the EU without a trade agreement between the EU and those countries. It can't and won't happen.

This is what I mean when I say tied to the EU. If we make a full free trade agreement with the EU after leaving it will most probably mean we couldn't make our own trade deals still. This would all be down to negotiations but I can't see any of it being allowed.