The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (15 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

We cannot get trade deals signed until we leave the EU. We can agree them in principle, but we would be foolish to make details of them available to all & sundry (except with agreement just to be able to emphasise the point of their possibility)

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No. But as stated Liam Fox said there would be 40 ready to sign the day after the original March leaving date. By that time there were only 3 ready.
So WTO terms with all but 3 countries until that was sorted. That's would seriously impact the economy.

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

And didn't May's deal also specifically rule out signing any external trade deals?

EU itself forbids it

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[djr8369]

That we are aware of

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There aren’t. The government admit this. They aren’t keeping it a secret. You are being delusional to try and stop yourself accepting the issues related to Brexit.


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[djr8369]

It is just as feasible that there would not be any complaints raised as it is that there would be!

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It really isn’t. You cannot have a wide open border.




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[SkyblueBazza]

No. But as stated Liam Fox said there would be 40 ready to sign the day after the original March leaving date. By that time there were only 3 ready.
So WTO terms with all but 3 countries until that was sorted. That's would seriously impact the economy.

Thought you'd left.

Keep up Clint, back in the summer it was said there were 12 of 40 continuity agreements in place & recently 15 with a further 6 expected to be rolled over should we leave on 31st October.

And now you will start boring us about how much of our current trade that will be worth. Please don't though...we all know it will leave us short & impact the economy. It will impact others too...and I would still be surprised if no deal was reached

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[SkyblueBazza]

It really isn’t. You cannot have a wide open border.




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That's right...tell all those Syrian (to name but one) migrants that. Weapons always seem to find easy passage across borders too...have you noticed that? That's because borders are pretty soft in general Mexico-USA is probably the hardest I can think of, but where there is a will there is a way - & it will be found

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[Sick Boy]

Are you pretending not to have a clue or do you really not have a clue?

Is Switzerland a full EU member?

Honest answer for once?

Is Switzerland part of the single market?

Unlucky. You have already been truthful.

So you don't have to be a full member to have different rights. This means things can be negotiated. It isn't just in or out as you constantly make out.

Yes I agree different solutions bring different problems. But as Switzerland shows it isn't one size fits all. But nothing can happen until negotiations start. And after 3 and half years they still haven't started. Would you like to explain why?

No thanks, you’ve just made up more opinions of mine. The fact you’re having so much trouble understanding the difference considering he UK’s self imposed red lines and the differences between the two countries situations is quite bizarre.

 

[djr8369]

That's right...tell all those Syrian (to name but one) migrants that. Weapons always seem to find easy passage across borders too...have you noticed that? That's because borders are pretty soft in general Mexico-USA is probably the hardest I can think of, but where there is a will there is a way - & it will be found

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Tell the Syrians that you can’t have an open border for goods? You’re making no sense whatsoever. I know you really, really want Brexit to work, and there are ways that it can, but there’s no point just denying reality and playing make believe.


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[clint van damme]

Thought you'd left.

Keep up Clint, back in the summer it was said there were 12 of 40 continuity agreements in place & recently 15 with a further 6 expected to be rolled over should we leave on 31st October.

And now you will start boring us about how much of our current trade that will be worth. Please don't though...we all know it will leave us short & impact the economy. It will impact others too...and I would still be surprised if no deal was reached

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I did leave, but I've revisited the thread. Didn't realise you were a moderator, you're quite welcome to ban me if so.
And how much those continuity deals are worth is relevant, because not one of them is with a major economy, (perhaps with the exception of Switzerland and South Korea), which you've stated yourself.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Tell the Syrians that you can’t have an open border for goods? You’re making no sense whatsoever. I know you really, really want Brexit to work, and there are ways that it can, but there’s no point just denying reality and playing make believe.


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Which makes perfect sense

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[Deleted member 5849]

It was all known about well in advance. But the politicians of the day were too scared to tell us the truth. We covered this in detail before. We voted on remaining in the EEC because it was all about trade.

Then after the vote the truth slowly came out. It was dripfed slowly. The EEC slowly became the EU. But it was all planned many years before.

Thus was immediately after, amd followed previous discussion. As it's not what i was looking for, I wasn't going to bother finding the earlier articles.

But there is a reinvention going on after 45 years. Things were mentioned... tgat haven't even happened!

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you pretending not to have a clue or do you really not have a clue?

Is Switzerland a full EU member?

Honest answer for once?

Is Switzerland part of the single market?

Unlucky. You have already been truthful.

So you don't have to be a full member to have different rights. This means things can be negotiated. It isn't just in or out as you constantly make out.

Yes I agree different solutions bring different problems. But as Switzerland shows it isn't one size fits all. But nothing can happen until negotiations start. And after 3 and half years they still haven't started. Would you like to explain why?

Switzerland is a member of EFTA and Schengen you mentalist that’s a big difference from what we want and as I’ve already pointed out to you that’s a well trodden path.

 

[skybluetony176]

No I haven't changed my time. You don't like my tune so you choose to listen to the tune you like. You refuse to give my tune a chance.

You and Grendull spent god knows how many pages loosing your shit at anyone who said that French wanting to sell us cheese and wine and Germany wanting to sell us cars was not the ace in the pack that gave us the upper hand in negotiations. So yes, you’ve changed your tune. In fact I predict that you’re about to change it again as per your usual MO.

 

[skybluetony176]

Thought you'd left.

Keep up Clint, back in the summer it was said there were 12 of 40 continuity agreements in place & recently 15 with a further 6 expected to be rolled over should we leave on 31st October.

And now you will start boring us about how much of our current trade that will be worth. Please don't though...we all know it will leave us short & impact the economy. It will impact others too...and I would still be surprised if no deal was reached

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That’s existing trade deals as EU members not new trade deals.

 

[skybluetony176]

That's right...tell all those Syrian (to name but one) migrants that. Weapons always seem to find easy passage across borders too...have you noticed that? That's because borders are pretty soft in general Mexico-USA is probably the hardest I can think of, but where there is a will there is a way - & it will be found

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The Mexico-US border is only hard in one direction. America virtually waves everyone through entering Mexico. El Paso has the most gun shops per capita than any other town in America. Reason being Americans buy guns legally in El Paso, cross the border unchecked and then sell the gun on the illegal Mexican black market at a profit. The irony being it’s fuelled gun crime in Mexico contributing to the flow of migrants trying to enter the USA illegally to escape the organised crime and dangers that go with that.

 

[shmmeee]

Nothing over the last 3yrs has mattered a great deal. It is what happens in the next week or two that that does. And if we get an extension only the two or 3wks before that runs out will matter too.

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This shows such a poor understanding of international trade negotiations and EU negotiations in particular.

 

[shmmeee]

I see lots of angry remoaners , the same way as you see leavers . Do the remainers know what they voted for other than to keep things the same , whatever that involves ? I don't think so.

Yes???

The vote was stay as we are or change. We know what stay as we are means cos we are already there.

I can’t help but feel that only Remainers take Brexit seriously. Leavers seem to think it’s some giant game of gotcha.

 

[shmmeee]

Are you pretending not to have a clue or do you really not have a clue?

Is Switzerland a full EU member?

Honest answer for once?

Is Switzerland part of the single market?

Unlucky. You have already been truthful.

So you don't have to be a full member to have different rights. This means things can be negotiated. It isn't just in or out as you constantly make out.

Yes I agree different solutions bring different problems. But as Switzerland shows it isn't one size fits all. But nothing can happen until negotiations start. And after 3 and half years they still haven't started. Would you like to explain why?

Because we are unable to decide what we want. Next question?

 

[clint van damme]

This shows such a poor understanding of international trade negotiations and EU negotiations in particular.

it takes an average of 18 months to negotiate a trade deal and just short of 4 years to implement, (that's based on US negotiations with its partners). This has all been posted on this thread before but people just choose to ignore the facts.

 

[djr8369]

it takes an average of 18 months to negotiate a trade deal and just short of 4 years to implement, (that's based on US negotiations with its partners). This has all been posted on this thread before but people just choose to ignore the facts.

This can’t be right as everything is going to be sorted in the next two weeks isn’t it?



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[shmmeee]

That's right...tell all those Syrian (to name but one) migrants that. Weapons always seem to find easy passage across borders too...have you noticed that? That's because borders are pretty soft in general Mexico-USA is probably the hardest I can think of, but where there is a will there is a way - & it will be found

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Israel Palestine says hi

 

[Grappa]

It'll be okay, we'll make a great deal with the bloke who just sold out the kurds.
And the political academics will have fodder for decades.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The Mexico-US border is only hard in one direction. America virtually waves everyone through entering Mexico. El Paso has the most gun shops per capita than any other town in America. Reason being Americans buy guns legally in El Paso, cross the border unchecked and then sell the gun on the illegal Mexican black market at a profit. The irony being it’s fuelled gun crime in Mexico contributing to the flow of migrants trying to enter the USA illegally to escape the organised crime and dangers that go with that.

Marvellous history lesson - thanks

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[SkyblueBazza]

Israel Palestine says hi

Yep that is another hard one. No personal experience of either myself.

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[SkyblueBazza]

This shows such a poor understanding of international trade negotiations and EU negotiations in particular.

I am referring to getting the Brexit deal done

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[SkyblueBazza]

That’s existing trade deals as EU members not new trade deals.

What? They are the number of rollover agreements, to continue trading as we do currently, with said countries post-Brexit. They aren't new deals because we cannot sign new deals yet.

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[Grappa]

I am back at that point where i am thinking 'fuck it, let it happen'.
Let all these cocksure 'fuck the experts' clowns reap what they sow. They certainly don't listen to reason so i think the only thing that might, just might, weaken their resolve is to let all the shit hit all the fans.
Pre-2016 something like 6% of people thought membership of the eu concerned them. Now, it's probably close to 100. Something has to give. Let them have their precious brexit.

 

[fernandopartridge]

This is the mentality (also expressed by some of this thread) we're having to deal with. The UK is being humiliated by these utter arseholes:

 

[djr8369]

I am back at that point where i am thinking 'fuck it, let it happen'.
Let all these cocksure 'fuck the experts' clowns reap what they sow. They certainly don't listen to reason so i think the only thing that might, just might, weaken their resolve is to let all the shit hit all the fans.
Pre-2016 something like 6% of people thought membership of the eu concerned them. Now, it's probably close to 100. Something has to give. Let them have their precious brexit.

The thing is they won’t reap what they sow. We will.


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[Grappa]

The thing is they won’t reap what they sow. We will.
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Yeah, but we'll have a pyrrhic sense of superiority. Heals all ills.

 

[clint van damme]

What? They are the number of rollover agreements, to continue trading as we do currently, with said countries post-Brexit. They aren't new deals because we cannot sign new deals yet.

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But we can negotiate new deals and have them ready to sign, we were told this would happen, quite clearly it hasn't and isn't going to, (which is to be expected when we don't know the terms of our exit), so when we leave the economy is going to take a battering.
Government spending is already up and expected to increase even more significantly in the case of no deal. Clearly the outlook isn't good.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

On the BBC news they've just referred to Merkel as "torpedoing" the deal and that she's "blown it out of the water"
It's a bit of an unfortunate choice of wording when you think about it !

 

[skybluetony176]

Marvellous history lesson - thanks

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It’s not history. It’s happening now. America’s gun laws are directly contributing to gun crimes in Mexico which in turn makes people want to leave Mexico for America. The flow of guns has also made the gangs formidable and powerful so they can organise smuggling rings into America for drugs and people to cross the border. America is arming and facilitating the very people they’re building a wall to keep out.

Mexico's spiraling homicide rate and gang violence is being fueled by smuggled American guns | Daily Mail Online

 

[skybluetony176]

What? They are the number of rollover agreements, to continue trading as we do currently, with said countries post-Brexit. They aren't new deals because we cannot sign new deals yet.

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Which is exactly the point I’ve made. Three years on and we still haven’t completed this relatively easy process, relatively easy especially compared to negotiating a new trade deal. That’s before you even get into the discussion about we have to leave the EU to make free trade agreements with the rest of the world yet here we are attempting to copy and paste some 40 odd trade agreements covering some 70 odd countries we already had as EU members. If we leave at the end of the month we’d have less free trade agreements than we had as EU members and by some margin.

 

[ccfc92]

On the BBC news they've just referred to Merkel as "torpedoing" the deal and that she's "blown it out of the water"
It's a bit of an unfortunate choice of wording when you think about it !

The BBC opening themselves up for a "politically incorrect" complaint???