General Election 2019 thread (15 Viewers)

[Astute]

Corbyn earns more. Own goal old man

Why is that? So Corbyn is just an MP until he is needed to be more.

It has to be passed by MP's to try and keep them happy. So taxing the rich but just keeping the MP's out of this extra tax makes no difference? Of course it doesn't.

 

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[Astute]

On the basis that the Labour leadership voted against the severely inflated pay rise implemented in the last couple of years - I would say that you need to lay off the conspiracy theories.

And of course you don't see anything but a coincidence. You never do.

That is unless it is by anyone but Labour. Then it is meant 100%.

 

[Astute]

If we start attributing things to people when they haven’t said them it’s a bit disingenuous. Then again you are a master of this particular art

Oh the irony. You spend ages trying to make out that I have said something that I haven't.

OK. Onto what has been said. McDonnell says only top 5% will pay more tax. I trust the calculations were not done by Abbott. The IMF......more trustworthy than any UK politician......say the numbers are wrong if it is just income tax.

Didn't McDonnell say this?

And back to what you drone on about. So Labour are a remain party. But Labour has a leader that refuses to say he will campaign for remain. Isn't this a bit disingenuous?

Of course it isn't because it is what you have said. But someone is when they state the exact words said by someone.

 

[Astute]

Reminds me of the chap here. So do tell me again, looking at their track record on education and underfunding it for a decade, why I should vote Tory in a few weeks' time?

Can you remind me of the last decent Labour government?

I will give you a clue. I plan to retire in less than 3 1/2 years. And it was before I was born.

Would you dare say Bliar? The Tory in disguise?

 

[Astute]

Alternatively you righties want to stick your head in the sand and not listen to the answer.

I am middle of the road yet a lifelong Labour voter and supporter. Yet I see major problems with both of them. The problem is that we are a two party system most of the time. Both sides are too extreme.

 

[Astute]

The great deceit at the heart of debate about public spending is that for the years following the 2010 election it would have been any different under Labour. Ahead of that election, Alistair Darling said "Labour's planned cuts in public spending will be "deeper and tougher" than Margaret Thatcher's in the 1980s". See Alistair Darling: we will cut deeper than Margaret Thatcher - the IFS were warning we'd have 'two parliaments of pain", which is exactly what we've had. People have short memories and have conveniently forgotten the dire situation we were in at that time and how long it hs taken to recover.

Ultimately, you vote whichever way you choose. It's interesting though, my wife suggested to me that the conversations she has had suggest few of her colleagues will be voting for Corbyn. Make of that what you will.

Yeah but that was a past Labour government. We only consider past Tory governments on here.

 

[Astute]

Yes I remember it well. Leaving school right in the middle of the recession, graduating when still not even the main chemical industries had jobs going. I also remember a somewhat smug David Cameron talking about 'we're all in it together' and creating a 'Big Society' when his priorities and actions showed these to be...not the case. He took pleasure in taking public services to the cleaners and didn't hide it. Then if my fellow millennials point this out we are called entitled. Thankfully more of us will be in political leadership roles in the decades to come and some of this shite will be undone.

I know I have the right to vote however I wish or not at all. If you've seen, I've been unhappy with Labour and Corbyn for a while now and my desire to vote for them is minimal after that manifesto. Yet we are in a 2 party system and I may yet have to put an 'X' by one of them for it to have any meaning. My gripes with the Tories on education aren't just limited to funding cuts either. Gove has done irreparable damage with his meddling and the less said about academisation the better. They have a fundamental belief that the public sector is crap and that the free market is king. I vote for them and I vote against my own self interest. It's that simple. Your wife's colleagues may not find Corbyn appealing but they may also find when push comes to shove he is better than the alternative.

I left school just after a Labour government. The unemployed reached well over 3 million with a population well below what it is now. Unemployment level was nearly at 11% after the Labour government. And most of them that had a job were out on strike. Yet you preach that my generation had it so easy.

You left school during a recession. But you should have tried leaving school when more than 1 in 10 didn't have a job.

 

[clint van damme]

One thing I have noticed is MP's earn 79k. Labour wants to raise tax on earnings over 80k. Coincidence?

Probably, they're sure to give themselves an above inflation pay rise soon which will take them over the threshold

Don't think the poor things have had one for about 6 months

 

[Astute]

Employment isn’t what matters, money in the pocket of the average consumer matters.

One sentence that contradicts itself.

 

[clint van damme]

The public sector has been under massive strain, but there are clear signs that we are emerging from a period of economic strife and that the corner has been turned. The key question in this I guess. Tax revenues are up, unemployment is at record lows, foreign investment is high, especially in UK tech firms (but of course not all economic indicators are favourable, they never are). Which of the parties do we trust to build on this base, maintain high levels of employment and investment, so that we can begin to invest in services and infrastructure. If you think that is the Labour party, fine, vote for them, and nothing I say is going to convince you otherwise.

BTW, I know all about corporation tax, I've just paid my bill. What made you think that? Incidentally, having paid my bill (based on a decent year last year), I have had to shut my business. This year has been terrible, so have made a loss (my own fault, made some bad decisions), and on the basis that there was no way I was not going to pay HMRC (they're savage when you miss deadlines), I paid the bill, but this made the company insolvent and unable to trade, so had to close the doors. Devastated.

Unlucky Ferret. Hope your next venture fairs better.

 

[Astute]

Probably, they're sure to give themselves an above inflation pay rise soon which will take them over the threshold

Don't think the poor things have had one for about 6 months

Maybe set it at 85k and give themselves a 6k raise.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Probably, they're sure to give themselves an above inflation pay rise soon which will take them over the threshold

Don't think the poor things have had one for about 6 months

I’m probably in the minority here but I think they should be paid more. When someone can earn more in other jobs it possibly means the best avoid the job and it opens it up further to those that are power hungry and means they are susceptible to lobbyists.

I’d try and introduce something that had much higher pay but no involvement in anything else and a complete ban on them working in an industry they’ve been involved in as a minister for x years after.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why is that? So Corbyn is just an MP until he is needed to be more.

It has to be passed by MP's to try and keep them happy. So taxing the rich but just keeping the MP's out of this extra tax makes no difference? Of course it doesn't.

Because he earns more as Leader of the Opposition and would also earn more as PM.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I left school just after a Labour government. The unemployed reached well over 3 million with a population well below what it is now. Unemployment level was nearly at 11% after the Labour government. And most of them that had a job were out on strike. Yet you preach that my generation had it so easy.

You left school during a recession. But you should have tried leaving school when more than 1 in 10 didn't have a job.

If Labour has always been so awful why do you always vote for them? Why were you prepared to vote for the ‘Tory in disguise’ and established war criminal but not for a geography teacher in a suit? According to G in those days you could sign on as a student while receiving grants and being charged no tuition fees. Houses were infinitely easier to afford. Jobs that were around were not of the type now that are more temporary/part time/zero hour. The ‘job for life’ may have been fading but in general work was more secure if you had it. Though Mrs Thatcher didn’t make it easy.

You continually ignore the big reservations I have about voting Labour this time around. It is not a cut and dry decision. I have about £40k in student debt to pay which at the moment takes over £100 a month from my pay but doesn’t touch the sides of the debt because of the interest. The generation which got to go for free puts mine into massive debt and tells us to stop complaining. Are you all to blame no. But I don’t see any effort to acknowledge that the economic reality has changed for the worse.

 

[Astute]

If Labour has always been so awful why do you always vote for them? Why were you prepared to vote for the ‘Tory in disguise’ and established war criminal but not for a geography teacher in a suit? According to G in those days you could sign on as a student while receiving grants and being charged no tuition fees. Houses were infinitely easier to afford. Jobs that were around were not of the type now that are more temporary/part time/zero hour. The ‘job for life’ may have been fading but in general work was more secure if you had it. Though Mrs Thatcher didn’t make it easy.

You continually ignore the big reservations I have about voting Labour this time around. It is not a cut and dry decision. I have about £40k in student debt to pay which at the moment takes over £100 a month from my pay but doesn’t touch the sides of the debt because of the interest. The generation which got to go for free puts mine into massive debt and tells us to stop complaining. Are you all to blame no. But I don’t see any effort to acknowledge that the economic reality has changed for the worse.

You have a lot to say on matters you don't have a clue about.

Most people I knew could only get agency work. Zero hours contracts is a name that didn't exist then. If you didn't have a permanent job you didn't get holiday pay.

In fact why do I bother. Have told you countless times before. But you always ignore it as though you didn't know so you can put your point across how bad it is for your generation and say how easy it was for mine. You ignore the near 11% unemployment rate. You ignore the 16% interest rates. But you blame my generation for having good pensions that a Labour government took away from your generation. Yet you only go on about how hard the Tories have made it.

Oh yes my generation that didn't have Uni fees. We also didn't get grants. So we needed parents that were well off. Most of us had to look for work in a market where more than 1 in 10 was unemployed. But I suppose we can forget that point also.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You have a lot to say on matters you don't have a clue about.

Most people I knew could only get agency work. Zero hours contracts is a name that didn't exist then. If you didn't have a permanent job you didn't get holiday pay.

In fact why do I bother. Have told you countless times before. But you always ignore it as though you didn't know so you can put your point across how bad it is for your generation and say how easy it was for mine. You ignore the near 11% unemployment rate. You ignore the 16% interest rates. But you blame my generation for having good pensions that a Labour government took away from your generation. Yet you only go on about how hard the Tories have made it.

Oh yes my generation that didn't have Uni fees. We also didn't get grants. So we needed parents that were well off. Most of us had to look for work in a market where more than 1 in 10 was unemployed. But I suppose we can forget that point also.

Here we are again replying on auto pilot.

The Tories had 18 years in government. The surges in unemployment over 10% during that time are somehow Labour’s fault. And you always vote for them even though they’ve always been bad. High interest rates on a low mortgage with a low house price. Deposits nowhere near what is required now and credit easier to obtain. But we have been through this when you posted a BBC case study that proved my point.

Did you vote for Michael Foot in 1983? Did you vote for Blair in 2005? Brown in 2010? According to you, yes. But Corbyn is unconscionable. What an odd bundle of contradictions you are.

 

[shmmeee]

One sentence that contradicts itself.

Right. So you think the economy would work just as well if we are all penniless serfs as long as we technically have jobs?

 

[shmmeee]

You have a lot to say on matters you don't have a clue about.

Most people I knew could only get agency work. Zero hours contracts is a name that didn't exist then. If you didn't have a permanent job you didn't get holiday pay.

In fact why do I bother. Have told you countless times before. But you always ignore it as though you didn't know so you can put your point across how bad it is for your generation and say how easy it was for mine. You ignore the near 11% unemployment rate. You ignore the 16% interest rates. But you blame my generation for having good pensions that a Labour government took away from your generation. Yet you only go on about how hard the Tories have made it.

Oh yes my generation that didn't have Uni fees. We also didn't get grants. So we needed parents that were well off. Most of us had to look for work in a market where more than 1 in 10 was unemployed. But I suppose we can forget that point also.

Never have I seen a more appropriate time to use this meme:

 

[Philosoraptor]

I am amazed during the WMCA mayoral election that Labour didn't bring Andy Street up on zero hour contracts.

It was like missing a dart board from two foot away.

 

[Philosoraptor]

They were probably too busy with stopping Labour voters from joining the party,

 

[Astute]

Here we are again replying on auto pilot.

The Tories had 18 years in government. The surges in unemployment over 10% during that time are somehow Labour’s fault. And you always vote for them even though they’ve always been bad. High interest rates on a low mortgage with a low house price. Deposits nowhere near what is required now and credit easier to obtain. But we have been through this when you posted a BBC case study that proved my point.

Did you vote for Michael Foot in 1983? Did you vote for Blair in 2005? Brown in 2010? According to you, yes. But Corbyn is unconscionable. What an odd bundle of contradictions you are.

Oh I see the double act are back.

So when was the unemployment that high? Who had been in power?

Yes I vote Labour. Sometimes I wonder why myself. I would most probably be better off with a Tory government. But I was dragged up on most of the council estates in Coventry. I know what it is like to be poor. The Tories do nothing for the poor except make things harder for them. And a vote for anyone else is normally a wasted vote.

 

[Astute]

Right. So you think the economy would work just as well if we are all penniless serfs as long as we technically have jobs?

So when did I say that?

Oh yes. You are making things up again.

 

[shmmeee]

Oh I see the double act are back.

So when was the unemployment that high? Who had been in power?

Yes I vote Labour. Sometimes I wonder why myself. I would most probably be better off with a Tory government. But I was dragged up on most of the council estates in Coventry. I know what it is like to be poor. The Tories do nothing for the poor except make things harder for them. And a vote for anyone else is normally a wasted vote.

The Conservatives.


Basically the only stable period of low unemployment we had between 1975 and 2008 is the late 90s/early 2000s under Brown and Blair.

 

[shmmeee]

So when did I say that?

Oh yes. You are making things up again.

No. You said my sentence was contradictory, the only way that could be true is if you think jobs = money in pocket. I used a clearly absurd example to show the flaw in this thinking.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh I see the double act are back.

So when was the unemployment that high? Who had been in power?

Yes I vote Labour. Sometimes I wonder why myself. I would most probably be better off with a Tory government. But I was dragged up on most of the council estates in Coventry. I know what it is like to be poor. The Tories do nothing for the poor except make things harder for them. And a vote for anyone else is normally a wasted vote.

It went over 10% not once but twice. Whose fault was it the second time? Even if we buy that it was Labour’s the first time.

I am struggling to think of a political figure in this country who has been hounded and targeted for personal abuse in the manner Corbyn has since 2015. Yet Nicola Sturgeon who actively wants to break up the country gets it pretty easy by comparison. Ask yourself why the media and establishment have gone into turbo drive to throw mud at this supposedly feckless old man for the last 4 years.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I am amazed during the WMCA mayoral election that Labour didn't bring Andy Street up on zero hour contracts.

It was like missing a dart board from two foot away.

Because that election had no interest in it.

 

[clint van damme]

If you've got any sense, don't vote for Corbyn

Why? You keep making statements but you don't back them up.
I asked twice yesterday why people are against remationalisation - not one reply.
I've laid out my reasons for being in favour of it.
That's just one example

 

[Skybluefaz]

I’m probably in the minority here but I think they should be paid more. When someone can earn more in other jobs it possibly means the best avoid the job and it opens it up further to those that are power hungry and means they are susceptible to lobbyists.

I’d try and introduce something that had much higher pay but no involvement in anything else and a complete ban on them working in an industry they’ve been involved in as a minister for x years after.

Let's not forget they claim ridiculous fucking expenses. It's not just the salary

 

[Astute]

The Conservatives.
View attachment 13516

Basically the only stable period of low unemployment we had between 1975 and 2008 is the late 90s/early 2000s under Brown and Blair.

Do you need glasses?

Look at the graph. It shot up under Labour. It took a lot of shit with the Tories to bring it down from nearly 11%. When Bliar took over from the Tories unemployment was in freefall. Bliar managed to stop unemployment from dropping not too long after taking over. Then it shot up again under Labour. It went from 5% to 7.5%. Yes it went up by 50%. Then the Tories got back in. And strangely enough unemployment dropped again.

I love the way you can manipulate something like a graph to make ut sound totally different to the truth.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You keep making statements but you don't back them up.

It's taken you this long to notice?!?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

It's taken you this long to notice?!?

Hahahaha, you always creep into posts to do with me

 

[Astute]

It went over 10% not once but twice. Whose fault was it the second time? Even if we buy that it was Labour’s the first time.

I am struggling to think of a political figure in this country who has been hounded and targeted for personal abuse in the manner Corbyn has since 2015. Yet Nicola Sturgeon who actively wants to break up the country gets it pretty easy by comparison. Ask yourself why the media and establishment have gone into turbo drive to throw mud at this supposedly feckless old man for the last 4 years.

Even if we buy it was Labour? The pair of you are in total denial.

Or was everyone on strike during the Labour government the fault of the Tories?

Labour had made us nearly bankrupt. Yes it was brought down from nearly 11% and went back up to just over 10%. But then it was brought diwn to 5% by the Tories. This was done through austerity measures. Then Bliar took over and it went up again.

One good point you have brought up with the graph. That is what happens when a government overspends. It takes a lot of pain with austerity measures to bring it back under control. And McDonnell wants to spend hundreds of billions. History repeating itself?

 

[Grendel]

Do you need glasses?

Look at the graph. It shot up under Labour. It took a lot of shit with the Tories to bring it down from nearly 11%. When Bliar took over from the Tories unemployment was in freefall. Bliar managed to stop unemployment from dropping not too long after taking over. Then it shot up again under Labour. It went from 5% to 7.5%. Yes it went up by 50%. Then the Tories got back in. And strangely enough unemployment dropped again.

I love the way you can manipulate something like a graph to make ut sound totally different to the truth.

It’s also percentages against absolutes - how convenient - why doesn’t he show a graph comparing it to others in the EU?

 

[Astute]

Why? You keep making statements but you don't back them up.
I asked twice yesterday why people are against remationalisation - not one reply.
I've laid out my reasons for being in favour of it.
That's just one example

I'm not against it in principle.

But close to 40 billion to be able to give away free internet even to those who can afford it? And have to pay hundreds of millions a year to keep it going?

Show us the details on the other utilities and we can make our minds up.

 

[Astute]

It’s also percentages against absolutes - how convenient - why doesn’t he show a graph comparing it to others in the EU?

Why not show unemployment rates at the start and end each time a different party takes over? The graph is clear. It goes up each time under Labour and down each time under the Tories.

Thinking about it why do we vote Labour knowing this? I am starting to doubt my voting history.