Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (87 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Everything is shut down. This isn't like when a leader normally takes over. No question times. No debates.

Are you expecting a running commentary on everything that is happening?

He should be calling Hancock out everyday over his lies and his attempts to throw everyone from footballers to NHS staff under the bus.
He's made a couple of wishy washy statements so he has being commenting but it's been poor so far in my opinion.

 

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[Astute]

The whole point of the Labour Party is to be be a left wing party!

But not so left to alienate the floating voters.

Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.

 

[Astute]

He should be calling Hancock out everyday over his lies and his attempts to throw everyone from footballers to NHS staff under the bus.
He's made a couple of wishy washy statements so he has being commenting but it's been poor so far in my opinion.

They are supposed to be reconvened within a week.

What is the use of asking questions through the media? They won't even want to answer them when they are in a position where they are supposed to answer them. All he has been able to do is ask questions like what are our plans on removing lockdown. This has been ignored.

 

[clint van damme]

Spending untold billions to give free internet to all with finances that didn't stand up and in a timescale that wasn't possible.

Jobs? What was that?

What we did have was a leader that was useless. And you say the same yourself now. That is why the Tories didn't even need a manifesto. We were beat even before the election was called. Yet many just want the same again. A leader hanging on the left so far that they are not interested in the better things towards the other side of the spectrum. And we will never get in until things change.

you're contradicting yourself here, you're saying Corbyn was a poor leader but you're excusing Starmer for starting his tenure in exactly the same vein.
Corbyn tried to go down the taking the nastiness out of politics route from day 1 and it failed yet Starmer appears to be doing the same and your excusing him.

You also keep going on about a left wing leader, read Starmers 10 pledges after he was elected leader, they're fairly left wing and they're good enough for me. One of them is nationalisation of all utilities which comes into the category of 'spending untold billions' from the last manifesto though you're obviously alright with that now.

Good luck to him, it's now down to him to deliver.

 

[clint van damme]

They are supposed to be reconvened within a week.

What is the use of asking questions through the media? They won't even want to answer them when they are in a position where they are supposed to answer them. All he has been able to do is ask questions like what are our plans on removing lockdown. This has been ignored.

so why is he making ineffectual statements straight out of the Peston/Kussenburg playbook?
His statement today about Raab was vapid.

 

[clint van damme]

But not so left to alienate the floating voters.

Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.

Starmers pledges are left wing, it's his willingness or ability to deliver that I'm questioning.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Labour will never have an election win under there current guise. The working class are not interested in the left wing. The working class have deserted labour in there droves. I guess if your left wing and working class labour are great at the moment,but not for the majority of us in this country. I'm.a floating voter. I have no affiliation to any party. I'd not vote for labour though until they shake off this leftie tag. Labour have forgotten who they're supposed to represent. I work in manufacturing,arent labour supposed to be the party for the likes of me? The party for the people? Nobody I work with votes labour. I'd vote labour again in the future but not at the moment. The way the labour party is represented on here is how the floating voter sees them. Frothing left wingers who scream and shout nazi,racist,bigot at you if you disagree with them or dare raise a genuine question about something. This is why floating voters like me are kind of forced to vote Tory. I'm not getting pulled into a discussion about all this by the labour party 'enthusiasts' on here as you just cant seem to reason with them. They seem to be more into the labour party than they are the city. Like I've said,labour need to win back us,the working class neutral types we dont feel like you represent us anymore,no the Tories dont represent the working class but we know what the Tories are about,looking after the Tories but at least they dont pretend to represent the working class like labour do. Que the usual frothing idiots.

What a load of utter drivel, do you even know what you're talking about?

 

[Ian1779]

Labour will never have an election win under there current guise. The working class are not interested in the left wing. The working class have deserted labour in there droves. I guess if your left wing and working class labour are great at the moment,but not for the majority of us in this country. I'm.a floating voter. I have no affiliation to any party. I'd not vote for labour though until they shake off this leftie tag. Labour have forgotten who they're supposed to represent. I work in manufacturing,arent labour supposed to be the party for the likes of me? The party for the people? Nobody I work with votes labour. I'd vote labour again in the future but not at the moment. The way the labour party is represented on here is how the floating voter sees them. Frothing left wingers who scream and shout nazi,racist,bigot at you if you disagree with them or dare raise a genuine question about something. This is why floating voters like me are kind of forced to vote Tory. I'm not getting pulled into a discussion about all this by the labour party 'enthusiasts' on here as you just cant seem to reason with them. They seem to be more into the labour party than they are the city. Like I've said,labour need to win back us,the working class neutral types we dont feel like you represent us anymore,no the Tories dont represent the working class but we know what the Tories are about,looking after the Tories but at least they dont pretend to represent the working class like labour do. Que the usual frothing idiots.

It’s like those Facebook algorithms were written just for you.

 

[Astute]

you're contradicting yourself here, you're saying Corbyn was a poor leader but you're excusing Starmer for starting his tenure in exactly the same vein.

Any chance of keeping this fact based?

I keep asking you how it can be done through the media when you know they won't reply. You haven't answered that once yet.

I keep saying they are planned to reconvene on the 21st....within a week. Shall we wait to see or just say he is as bad as Corbyn before he gets a chance.

 

[Ian1779]

Spending untold billions to give free internet to all with finances that didn't stand up and in a timescale that wasn't possible.

Jobs? What was that?

What we did have was a leader that was useless. And you say the same yourself now. That is why the Tories didn't even need a manifesto. We were beat even before the election was called. Yet many just want the same again. A leader hanging on the left so far that they are not interested in the better things towards the other side of the spectrum. And we will never get in until things change.

We were beat from Day 1 because we pursued the PV nonsense...

We had to hold the North, Wales, maintain in Scotland, and take Leave voting seats in England to have realistically forced the Tories out... that wasn’t exactly reading the room was it?

 

[Astute]

so why is he making ineffectual statements straight out of the Peston/Kussenburg playbook?
His statement today about Raab was vapid.

Shall I join you in having a go at Starmer on everything you can think of? Might as well.

 

[clint van damme]

Any chance of keeping this fact based?

I keep asking you how it can be done through the media when you know they won't reply. You haven't answered that once yet.

I keep saying they are planned to reconvene on the 21st....within a week. Shall we wait to see or just say he is as bad as Corbyn before he gets a chance.

he made a statement regarding Raab this morning, it was read out of 5Live, 5Live asked for a response from the government, they didn't get one.
Why didn't he use that platform for a more aggressive from of attack. Do you really need me to tell you the leader of the opposition can speak through the national media if they choose, whether or not Parliament is sitting?

 

[clint van damme]

Shall I join you in having a go at Starmer on everything you can think of? Might as well.

if you think he's worthy of praise, tell me why. If I think he is I will. I'm not impressed with his start, you're only reply to that is give him chance.
I am giving him a chance but I'm still going to question him.

 

[Astute]

Starmers pledges are left wing, it's his willingness or ability to deliver that I'm questioning.

They are not full left wing as many seem to want. What you are questioning between the lines is can he be left wing enough.

What would you prefer. A Labour leader that appeals to many and can get voted in or total left wing that will stay in opposition?

 

[Ian1779]

They are not full left wing as many seem to want. What you are questioning between the lines is can he be left wing enough.

What would you prefer. A Labour leader that appeals to many and can get voted in or total left wing that will stay in opposition?

His pledges are fine IMO. No one is questioning what he has said he will do.

 

[clint van damme]

They are not full left wing as many seem to want. What you are questioning between the lines is can he be left wing enough.

What would you prefer. A Labour leader that appeals to many and can get voted in or total left wing that will stay in opposition?

his policies are left wing, they're not massively different from the last manifesto.
Again, I'm happy with his pledges, lets see if he can a) sell it and b) deliver.
But first he's got to stop the party tearing itself apart while holding the tories to account. That will be the hardest bit.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But first he's got to stop the party tearing itself apart while holding the tories to account. That will be the hardest bit.

It will be. History tends to repeat itself, but I really hope we're not going to repeat the Kinnock years where his time was spent straightening the party out, rather than winning elections.

 

[Astute]

We were beat from Day 1 because we pursued the PV nonsense...

We had to hold the North, Wales, maintain in Scotland, and take Leave voting seats in England to have realistically forced the Tories out... that wasn’t exactly reading the room was it?

Which is what I said at the time and many tried to make out that I am a Tory voter.

Just look on here. Whatever Corbyn did he got full support. He was supposed to have done the right thing on not saying leave or remain clearly. A fair few did see it as a problem though.

And it is the same for both Labour and Tory voters. They only see what they want to see and ignore what is wrong. So you won't lose the hardcore voters easily. You need to aim for the floating voters. Most are not rich or poor. Free internet was never going to win their vote. Those who wanted out of the EU went Tory. Those who wanted to remain were spread over the parties. But they knew the things that wouldn't benefit them much would have to be paid for.

The Tories offered next to nothing. So there wasn't a lot to worry about.

Yes life is shit. If life is OK for the majority they don't need change. But offer them something that could improve their life and look realistic and you win votes.

Most people will say they care about those having a hard time in life. But when it comes to it most will vote for what is best for themselves.

 

[The coventrian]

What a load of utter drivel, do you even know what you're talking about?

Head firmly in sand.

 

[The coventrian]

It’s like those Facebook algorithms were written just for you.

You're just a one eyed arsehole. It's the likes of you that labour need to rid itself of. Maybe then the labour party will appeal to the normal every day man in the street and not arrogant cocks like you.

 

[The coventrian]

That’s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Labour went into the last election offering to cut your bills, create thousands of well paid unionised and skilled jobs, build council houses, raise the NMW and tons more that would benefit the working class.

You haven’t given one actual reason Labour are against the working class because you don’t have one. You have a feeling because youve been told that by a thousand Facebook memes and because Corbyn doesn’t hate immigrants.

You’ve been had mate. You e been conned. The Tories don’t give a shit about you and if you’re honest you can’t actually name anything past Brexit that they’re offering and even that you don’t know what’ll benefit you.

The Tories had the thinnest manifesto in history. They’re cutting services and stripping workers rights and you’ve been conned into voting for them by tickling your patriotism bone.

It’s so telling that so many of you guys go on and on and on about Labour but never say what’s so great about the Tories. Like someone who’s wife left them and they can’t shut up about them. You obviously care about Labour, it screams out of every post.

Point missed completely. You're so entrenched in your opinions you wont listen to a neutral. Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.

 

[Astute]

he made a statement regarding Raab this morning, it was read out of 5Live, 5Live asked for a response from the government, they didn't get one.
Why didn't he use that platform for a more aggressive from of attack. Do you really need me to tell you the leader of the opposition can speak through the national media if they choose, whether or not Parliament is sitting?

So you agree with me then. He can ask what he wants but won't get any answers. We will have to wait until they reconvene.

 

[Astute]

if you think he's worthy of praise, tell me why. If I think he is I will. I'm not impressed with his start, you're only reply to that is give him chance.
I am giving him a chance but I'm still going to question him.

This is getting silly again.

Show me where I have said he is worthy of anything other than a chance to do something about the situation.

Yet you will say you are not having a go at him and are willing to give him a chance.....

 

[clint van damme]

So you agree with me then. He can ask what he wants but won't get any answers. We will have to wait until they reconvene.

no I don't agree, not getting answers isn't the point.
His statement was read out but it was wishy washy. He should be attacking the tories and the listenership of that program would have heard him.
It doesn't matter if the tories do or not, but if his attack hits the spot you can gurantee they'll be made aware.
He needs to start getting the message of how poor this government is through to the electorate.
This don't politicise the crisis is bollocks. The tories politicised it when they had a go at footballers and NHS staff.
At the minute opposition is piers Morgan and Rachael Burden.

 

[Astute]

It will be. History tends to repeat itself, but I really hope we're not going to repeat the Kinnock years where his time was spent straightening the party out, rather than winning elections.

Sadly I think he is going to have to spend too much time sorting out the infighting.

I can't get my head around those who said we should back a Labour leader whatever but when we get a new Labour leader at a time of lockdown we should expect someone to come in and change things immediately. Some people need to understand they can't travel like normally. They can't have meetings like normally. They are not sitting in parliament like normal. This is where the questions will be hard to ignore.

As long as he is making plans whilst not being able to do much more we should be OK. But I am not going to knock him yet.

 

[clint van damme]

This is getting silly again.

Show me where I have said he is worthy of anything other than a chance to do something about the situation.

Yet you will say you are not having a go at him and are willing to give him a chance.....

No, wrong again, I am having a go at him and giving him a chance, both things are possible.
I've said he did the right thing clearing out the Corbynites, Corbyn should have did it with the centrists when he was elected and it was a big mistake not purging his enemies.

But if you give him credit for that then you've also got to criticise him for falling in to another trap Corbyn did which was trying to civilise the political debate. It failed (unfortunately) but Starmer in his first week or two seems to be making the same mistake.

 

[PVA]

Labour will never have an election win under there current guise. The working class are not interested in the left wing. The working class have deserted labour in there droves. I guess if your left wing and working class labour are great at the moment,but not for the majority of us in this country. I'm.a floating voter. I have no affiliation to any party. I'd not vote for labour though until they shake off this leftie tag. Labour have forgotten who they're supposed to represent. I work in manufacturing,arent labour supposed to be the party for the likes of me? The party for the people? Nobody I work with votes labour. I'd vote labour again in the future but not at the moment. The way the labour party is represented on here is how the floating voter sees them. Frothing left wingers who scream and shout nazi,racist,bigot at you if you disagree with them or dare raise a genuine question about something. This is why floating voters like me are kind of forced to vote Tory. I'm not getting pulled into a discussion about all this by the labour party 'enthusiasts' on here as you just cant seem to reason with them. They seem to be more into the labour party than they are the city. Like I've said,labour need to win back us,the working class neutral types we dont feel like you represent us anymore,no the Tories dont represent the working class but we know what the Tories are about,looking after the Tories but at least they dont pretend to represent the working class like labour do. Que the usual frothing idiots.

*their
*you're

 

[clint van damme]

Sadly I think he is going to have to spend too much time sorting out the infighting.

I can't get my head around those who said we should back a Labour leader whatever but when we get a new Labour leader at a time of lockdown we should expect someone to come in and change things immediately. Some people need to understand they can't travel like normally. They can't have meetings like normally. They are not sitting in parliament like normal. This is where the questions will be hard to ignore.

As long as he is making plans whilst not being able to do much more we should be OK. But I am not going to knock him yet.

I agree, but he's started slowly, people should have been suspended over these allegations, that's standard practice. It's happened before in the Labour party, it would happen in most workplaces.
If an allegation of racism or bullying is proven and that person was allowed to carry on in the workplace during the investigation it opens up a real can of worms.

 

[PVA]

Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.

And you'll carry on clapping the NHS on your doorstep.

 

[Astute]

no I don't agree, not getting answers isn't the point.
His statement was read out but it was wishy washy. He should be attacking the tories and the listenership of that program would have heard him.
It doesn't matter if the tories do or not, but if his attack hits the spot you can gurantee they'll be made aware.
He needs to start getting the message of how poor this government is through to the electorate.
This don't politicise the crisis is bollocks. The tories politicised it when they had a go at footballers and NHS staff.
At the minute opposition is piers Morgan and Rachael Burden.

So he should ask all his questions now knowing not a single one will get answered and give them a chance to work out replies?

The electorate knows how poor this government is. But they also knew the opposition was at least as bad.

 

[clint van damme]

So he should ask all his questions now knowing not a single one will get answered and give them a chance to work out replies?

The electorate knows how poor this government is. But they also knew the opposition was at least as bad.

he needs to hold the government to account, they are failing daily he should be attacking them daily.
I doubt even this government can perform as poorly as they are for much longer, he needs to set his stall out.
It's not about how bad the opposition was, it's about how goods it's going to be. An opposition that doesn't attack the government isn't an opposition.

 

[Astute]

I agree, but he's started slowly, people should have been suspended over these allegations, that's standard practice. It's happened before in the Labour party, it would happen in most workplaces.
If an allegation of racism or bullying is proven and that person was allowed to carry on in the workplace during the investigation it opens up a real can of worms.

Can you tell me what has been proven?

We went through this before. If the evidence is there they should be gone. You seem to know about some undoubted evidence. All I have seen is allegations. You know more than me on the subject it seems.

 

[clint van damme]

Can you tell me what has been proven?

We went through this before. If the evidence is there they should be gone. You seem to know about some undoubted evidence. All I have seen is allegations. You know more than me on the subject it seems.

nothing has been proven, that doesn't matter. If someone at work makes an allegation of racism against me at work tomorrow i'm suspended on full pay. Simple as that.
I'm fairly sure that's standard practice. If not it's definitely not uncommon and it's how Labour have dealt with complaints in the past.

 

[Astute]

he needs to hold the government to account, they are failing daily he should be attacking them daily.
I doubt even this government can perform as poorly as they are for much longer, he needs to set his stall out.
It's not about how bad the opposition was, it's about how goods it's going to be. An opposition that doesn't attack the government isn't an opposition.

And back yet again to relying on the media to put the truthful account over for no reply to come back.

We all know the Tories are failing badly. So they won't reply until they have to. This is why I am waiting a few more days. It isn't as though the 21st is a long way off.

And I hope you are happy then. Because I have a feeling you won't be happy whatever happens.

 

[Astute]

nothing has been proven, that doesn't matter. If someone at work makes an allegation of racism against me at work tomorrow i'm suspended on full pay. Simple as that.
I'm fairly sure that's standard practice. If not it's definitely not uncommon and it's how Labour have dealt with complaints in the past.

And yet again you say things should happen. But when I ask you about the details you say it doesn't matter about the details.

You seem to want Starmer to solve the problems that have gone on in the Labour party for years in just a few days without any evidence. Don't you think they should look at evidence first or should be suspended about half of the party as some sort of allegation has been made?