Rebecca Long-Bailey sacked (8 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

The irony of this thread is that if a Labour MP had have even said Jehovah while JC was leader certain voices on here would be shouting stone him. Now KS is leader and taking decisive action over antisemitism some of the same voices are saying he’s being over zealous. Can’t win.

On the actual issue in hand yes of course it’s true that Israeli security forces train other countries security forces and indeed vice versa and of course pointing that out shouldn’t be contrived to be anti-semetic but my understanding is that the antisemitism isn’t acknowledging that fact it’s to insinuate that the Jews made the police officers kill George Floyd, or they told them that it was alright to kneel on his neck until the point of death.

 

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[Grendel]

If this is his way then fair enough but he better be whiter than white on any other shadow cabinet member tweeting anything slightly dodgy.

Well that’s the risk but this opportunity fell in his lap.

Chance to dump the Corbynite and even better with a Jewish slur. Show he’s a strong man and even better while the Tories dither over Janrick

It’s a gift he couldn’t turn down but it will bite him at some point

 

[Nick]

The irony of this thread is that if a Labour MP had have even said Jehovah while JC was leader certain voices on here would be shouting stone him. Now KS is leader and taking decisive action over antisemitism some of the same voices are saying he’s being over zealous. Can’t win.

On the actual issue in hand yes of course it’s true that Israeli security forces train other countries security forces and indeed vice versa and of course pointing that out shouldn’t be contrived to be anti-semetic but my understanding is that the antisemitism isn’t acknowledging that fact it’s to insinuate that the Jews made the police officers kill George Floyd, or they told them that it was alright to kneel on his neck until the point of death.

Sounds like they are bat shit mental.

 

[oscillatewildly]

Absolutely PMSL over this. Next week's Naz Shah relegated to the back benches! Just when you thought Starmer was that perpetually stuck record, he's taken time out to sort the ongoing irregularities in his own camp.
It's still gonna take one almighty broom and a lot of sweeping to clear the shite from under his feet before labour(ed) can offer a genuinely credible challenge to the current government tho.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Absolutely PMSL over this. Next week's Naz Shah relegated to the back benches! Just when you thought Starmer was that perpetually stuck record, he's taken time out to sort the ongoing irregularities in his own camp.
It's still gonna take one almighty broom and a lot of sweeping to clear the shite from under his feet before labour(ed) can offer a genuinely credible challenge to the current government tho.

Yeah the current government have set a very high bar to be fair

 

[oscillatewildly]

Jewish lives matter.

Is that progressive or offensive?

World is getting more mad!

Muzzletoff!

 

[oscillatewildly]

Yeah the current government have set a very high bar to be fair

That the current opposition couldn't reach with a dozen steeple jacks ladders!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That the current opposition couldn't reach with a dozen steeple jacks ladders!

Would you rather have had Starmer or Johnson overseeing the handling of the pandemic?

 

[oscillatewildly]

There has never been a worse time in my life time (born in 1966) where the state of British politics has been so piss poor. (OK last couple of years of Callaghans government) So for an 'opposition' not to have the gumption or credibility to topple said piss poor government really does speaks volumes.
Get rid of the trots from labour and they just might become appealing once again for the working class!

 

[oscillatewildly]

Would you rather have had Starmer or Johnson overseeing the handling of the pandemic?

What track record does Starmer have in this situation?

 

[oscillatewildly]

What track record does Starmer have in this situation?

Or more to the point, do you think Starmer would have relished the handling of this one?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What track record does Starmer have in this situation?

I'd have confidence in just about anybody being able to do a better job handling it than Boris.

 

[stupot07]

I've re-read the article and can kind if see where it's coming from.

The article states that "system racism is a global issue"...and the follows as an example of system racism - " the tactics used by police in America, kneeling in George Floyd's neck (reading between the lines that kneeling on his neck was due to systemic racisim), that was learned from seminars from the Israeli secret service (implying that isreali secret service have taught racist police tactics,I'm guess ie using heavy handed tactics against a particular race e.g Israeli heavy handed tactics against Palestinians/muslims, and therefore encouraging America to do so against bame communities)

So the conspiracy theory is.

Israelis used heavy handed police techniques that they use against Palestinians who they have systemically racist against.

They taught America police their tactics to use against races that they do not like.

Therefore systemic racism is a global issue

It is very subtle.

For info Maxine Peake has retraced it.

And RLB appears to be removed from the front bench due to refusing to remove the post

For me Starmers acted swiftly and appropriately

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Or more to the point, do you think Starmer would have relished the handling of this one?

I don't think we'd be top of the European death toll.

 

[skybluetony176]

What track record does Starmer have in this situation?

Opposition only. And he’s embarrassed Johnson’s track record of this situation at every PMQ since Parliament restarted.

 

[oscillatewildly]

I don't think we'd be top of the European death toll.

Debatable. It all hinged on when we would go into lockdown. I must have missed that piece in the last labour manifesto.

 

[skybluetony176]

Debatable. It all hinged on when we would go into lockdown. I must have missed that piece in the last labour manifesto.

Why would it have been in the last labour manifesto? What did the Tory one say?

 

[oscillatewildly]

Opposition only. And he’s embarrassed Johnson’s track record of this situation at every PMQ since Parliament restarted.

'Embarrassed' or been in a convenient position to fire the same tired questions without supplying proof of how a labour(ed) government would have responded?
(By the way, voted for our local tree hugger at last gen elec owing to no faith in the 'big two')

 

[oscillatewildly]

Why would it have been in the last labour manifesto? What did the Tory one say?

Time for bed, Tony. And it hasn't even been the longest day.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Debatable. It all hinged on when we would go into lockdown. I must have missed that piece in the last labour manifesto.

I don’t think it’s helped having a whole group of politicians who have been blaming everyone else from day one, led by someone who has shown laziness in his attitude to being PM. Oh and who has a long track record of lying.

This should move to the COVID thread but Starmer did offer more formal collaboration with the government earlier in the crisis and has embarrassed Johnson at each PMQs he’s had. In this thread alone we’re talking about how he immediately binned off RLB whereas Johnson has kept Jenrick and Cummings on.

 

[oscillatewildly]

I don’t think it’s helped having a whole group of politicians who have been blaming everyone else from day one, led by someone who has shown laziness in his attitude to being PM. Oh and who has a long track record of lying.

This should move to the COVID thread but Starmer did offer more formal collaboration with the government earlier in the crisis and has embarrassed Johnson at each PMQs he’s had. In this thread alone we’re talking about how he immediately binned off RLB whereas Johnson has kept Jenrick and Cummings on.

They all offer 'collaboration' when not in power - we all can! To what level tho? Has he detailed how he would have saved the country?
You may not have noticed, but when you need credibility (fuck knows where labour are currently, compared even to the tories) you need to be clearing out the chaff. Poor 'rising star' Becca just couldn't keep her mouth shut (or thoughts to herself) that's why she had to go.
As I stated earlier - he's still got one hell of a lot of work on his hands.

 

[David O'Day]

They all offer 'collaboration' when not in power - we all can! To what level tho? Has he detailed how he would have saved the country?
You may not have noticed, but when you need credibility (fuck knows where labour are currently, compared even to the tories) you need to be clearing out the chaff. Poor 'rising star' Becca just couldn't keep her mouth shut (or thoughts to herself) that's why she had to go.
As I stated earlier - he's still got one hell of a lot of work on his hands.

Thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing about the situation "Poor 'rising star' Becca just couldn't keep her mouth shut (or thoughts to herself)" not that happened is it.

 

[David O'Day]

Don, you going to answer the qiuestions put to you?

 

[clint van damme]

There has never been a worse time in my life time (born in 1966) where the state of British politics has been so piss poor. (OK last couple of years of Callaghans government) So for an 'opposition' not to have the gumption or credibility to topple said piss poor government really does speaks volumes.
Get rid of the trots from labour and they just might become appealing once again for the working class!

you're working on the assumption that all Labour has to do is win back lost voters. But it also has to keep the ones it's got.
If there was an election tomorrow I'd have to think long and hard about voting for a Starmer government. The fact this country is going to hell in a hand cart under Johnson would probably swing it but it's hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

[clint van damme]

I've re-read the article and can kind if see where it's coming from.

The article states that "system racism is a global issue"...and the follows as an example of system racism - " the tactics used by police in America, kneeling in George Floyd's neck (reading between the lines that kneeling on his neck was due to systemic racisim), that was learned from seminars from the Israeli secret service (implying that isreali secret service have taught racist police tactics,I'm guess ie using heavy handed tactics against a particular race e.g Israeli heavy handed tactics against Palestinians/muslims, and therefore encouraging America to do so against bame communities)

So the conspiracy theory is.

Israelis used heavy handed police techniques that they use against Palestinians who they have systemically racist against.

They taught America police their tactics to use against races that they do not like.

Therefore systemic racism is a global issue

It is very subtle.

For info Maxine Peake has retraced it.

And RLB appears to be removed from the front bench due to refusing to remove the post

For me Starmers acted swiftly and appropriately

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

There's two things I can see that are potentially wrong, firstly, the American police are taught by the Israeli police not the secret services.
Secondly, there is nothing but anecdotal evidence that I have seen which suggests kneeling on the neck is a tactic they employ though coincidentally you can find no end of photos of Israeli police doing just that.

As has been said, he's taken the opportunity but him and his cabinet need to be squeaky clean now. And I agree with Grendel, I think this will bite him on the arse at some point. Seen a few BAME members already kicking off that he hasn't acted on the racism allegations in the leaked report but jumped on this.

 

[Nick]

I think the fact that it's "offensive" is more a desperate conspiracy theory than the actual thing said says enough.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The same red wall that just 2 years before had not only held but in some seats started to re-strengthen. Brexit was the overriding issue - out of the 56 seats lost - 52 were leave constituencies. Even the other 4 - 2 were lost because the Remain vote was split between with the Tories coming through the middle.

Most of Labour’s policies would have had an overwhelmingly positive effect on their lives, so are we now getting into the effectiveness of creating a narrative against Corbyn and his version of Labour?

That said - the leadership should have seen this coming and done something about it. A party that smashed the Tories in 2017 in terms of social media got absolutely pummelled in the same forum 2 years later. It was a shambles on that front.

Paul Mason estismated Labour lost about 1.1m votes to ‘Remain’ parties and about 900k votes to ‘Leave’ parties. The nature of our electoral system was going to disproportionately impact Labour in these Brexit seats, which leads me onto my next point.

In polls ran by Sir John Curtice, to summarise, shown that Labour Brexiteers deserted Labour. Yet, Tory Remainers stayed loyal to the party. Hedging their bets that Brexit would be better for the economy than a Labour government - which sums it up.

Whilst I don’t disagree on a lot things, you’re looking at this from one angle: lost seats. This is limited. Labour had been in opposition for 9 years, and looked no closer to winning power, even in 2017 when the results was a lot better than the expected pummelling. The patriotic working class overwhelmingly disliked Corbyn - at my rugby club, there are several people who were generational Labour voters who say they’ll never vote Labour again. Middle class voters (esp the typical Tory Remainer) felt a Labour government would ruin the economy. Both of these groups, when polled, felt the Labour manifesto was not feasible, and felt like he was an incompetent leader (the antisemitism issue comes up regularly in that conversation).

When the election was called, the best case scenario was for another hung parliament. Which is crazy and sums up Corbyn’s failure, ultimately.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Paul Mason estismated Labour lost about 1.1m votes to ‘Remain’ parties and about 900k votes to ‘Leave’ parties. The nature of our electoral system was going to disproportionately impact Labour in these Brexit seats, which leads me onto my next point.

In polls ran by Sir John Curtice, to summarise, shown that Labour Brexiteers deserted Labour. Yet, Tory Remainers stayed loyal to the party. Hedging their bets that Brexit would be better for the economy than a Labour government - which sums it up.

Whilst I don’t disagree on a lot things, you’re looking at this from one angle: lost seats. This is limited. Labour had been in opposition for 9 years, and looked no closer to winning power, even in 2017 when the results was a lot better than the expected pummelling. The patriotic working class overwhelmingly disliked Corbyn - at my rugby club, there are several people who were generational Labour voters who say they’ll never vote Labour again. Middle class voters (esp the typical Tory Remainer) felt a Labour government would ruin the economy. Both of these groups, when polled, felt the Labour manifesto was not feasible, and felt like he was an incompetent leader (the antisemitism issue comes up regularly in that conversation).

When the election was called, the best case scenario was for another hung parliament. Which is crazy and sums up Corbyn’s failure, ultimately.

Scotland was lost in 2015 off the back of being Tory lite coupled with too close a partnership with them in the Indy ref. That took away 40-50 seats that used to be a given. Now a similar number was lost to an Etonian clown because of Brexit and Corbyn’s terrible handling of it.

Yet a decade of shit and the Tories come out of it with the trust of people they have ignored and shafted for decades and a bumper majority. With Scotland now a write off Labour have to win in England which seems close to impossible. Perhaps time to melt it all down

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Scotland was lost in 2015 off the back of being Tory lite coupled with too close a partnership with them in the Indy ref. That took away 40-50 seats that used to be a given. Now a similar number was lost to an Etonian clown because of Brexit and Corbyn’s terrible handling of it.

Yet a decade of shit and the Tories come out of it with the trust of people they have ignored and shafted for decades and a bumper majority. With Scotland now a write off Labour have to win in England which seems close to impossible. Perhaps time to melt it all down

For future politics students, the 2010s will be regarded as a failure for the Labour Party to come to grips with the 2 pertinent referendum issues of the decade.

It’s no coincidence that the ambiguity on Scottish independence followed a wipe out in Scotland. It’s no coincidence that Labour’s ambiguity on Brexit followed its worse election result since the 1930s.

Frankly, even with Starmer, I can’t see an obvious route back to power for Labour.

 

[Ian1779]

For future politics students, the 2010s will be regarded as a failure for the Labour Party to come to grips with the 2 pertinent referendum issues of the decade.

It’s no coincidence that the ambiguity on Scottish independence followed a wipe out in Scotland. It’s no coincidence that Labour’s ambiguity on Brexit followed its worse election result since the 1930s.

Frankly, even with Starmer, I can’t see an obvious route back to power for Labour.

This is a fair assessment. There’s little evidence of success for political parties when they fail to take a stand on something this big and not be decisive in that stand.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

For future politics students, the 2010s will be regarded as a failure for the Labour Party to come to grips with the 2 pertinent referendum issues of the decade.

It’s no coincidence that the ambiguity on Scottish independence followed a wipe out in Scotland. It’s no coincidence that Labour’s ambiguity on Brexit followed its worse election result since the 1930s.

Frankly, even with Starmer, I can’t see an obvious route back to power for Labour.

I think Labour was quite obviously opposed to independence but formally sharing a platform with the Tories was suicide. Never say never but I just don’t see a winning path in England. Just the idea of decades more of right wing crap is a little disheartening.

 

[clint van damme]

I think Labour was quite obviously opposed to independence but formally sharing a platform with the Tories was suicide. Never say never but I just don’t see a winning path in England. Just the idea of decades more of right wing crap is a little disheartening.

they did more than share a platform with the tories, they shared it with some proper unsavoury types, (not that the tories aren't unsavoury types!). I don't think they'll ever recover, certainly not to where they were.

 

[Ian1779]

they did more than share a platform with the tories, they shared it with some proper unsavoury types, (not that the tories aren't unsavoury types!). I don't think they'll ever recover, certainly not to where they were.

Scotland is gone now for Labour - best case is they could take the seats not held by the SNP currently but that’s a real stretch.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

they did more than share a platform with the tories, they shared it with some proper unsavoury types, (not that the tories aren't unsavoury types!). I don't think they'll ever recover, certainly not to where they were.

Can’t stand nationalism and the last decade has kind of been a horror show for it. I still think Starmer will turn out to be an upgraded Ed Miliband but nothing more, he has to flip so many seats I don’t really see it happening.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

She was always going to be going it was just a case of waiting for her to make an error and this was the moment, my union was really pushing me to vote for her for the leadership but I voted for somebody who is electable and would be a good prime minister, unlike the current lazy buffoon