Take the knee (20 Viewers)

[Grendel]

This is a genuine question, maybe naive. If a black power salute is OK then what happens if a player did a white power one?

The real question is what if a player refused to do it?

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

How do you think it feels to Dabo and Rashford?

Or should we wait to hear from them until we’re done with your feelings first?

Can you ever write something without being a sarcy twat?

 

[Otis]

The real question is what if a player refused to do it?

They of course should be allowed to. The main problem I have with this incident yesterday is that the players came out on Friday and issued a statement and said that for them it wasn't a political statement at all and just a stance against discrimination.

Why would anyone then want to still go ahead and arrange an organised booing? This was their own players.

 

[SBT]

It is, why did it start before games?

I have absolutely no issue with asking for equality, likewise the rainbow laces, captains armbands, corner flags etc.

However, if it was rainbow equality every week then it would lose it's focus wouldn't it?

This is a genuine question, maybe naive. If a black power salute is OK then what happens if a player did a white power one?

You realise the Millwall players released a statement last night saying very clearly that it has never had anything to do with politics? First Team squad release statement

Let's not do the white power vs black power thing now. I'm guessing you know the difference between the two movements, and who gets affected by them, and neither of those movements are even the issue here.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Maybe he’s as uneducated in it as you. The two athletes from the 68 he referenced when talking about it wore black gloves, they also wore black socks and no shoes. Don’t think Lewis did that either.

More sarcy crap rather than trying to inform.

 

[Nick]

You can disagree with it without booing to be fair. Unless it is referees and opposition players, they deserve the abuse.

 

[SBT]

Can you ever write something without being a sarcy twat?

Just answer the question and stop whining about having your feelings hurt, plenty of other people on here seem capable of having the conversation.

 

[shmmeee]

It is, why did it start before games?

I have absolutely no issue with asking for equality, likewise the rainbow laces, captains armbands, corner flags etc.

However, if it was rainbow equality every week then it would lose it's focus wouldn't it?

This is a genuine question, maybe naive. If a black power salute is OK then what happens if a player did a white power one?

The “black power salute”, an international symbol of solidarity: Raised fist - Wikipedia

The white power salute, an international symbol of fascism and racist ideology:White supremacy - Wikipedia

It’s about their status in society. Raising a fist in solidarity is not the same as asking for a pure white ethnostate. FFS.

 

[Nick]

You realise the Millwall players released a statement last night saying very clearly that it has never had anything to do with politics? First Team squad release statement

Let's not do the white power vs black power thing now. I'm guessing you know the difference between the two movements, and who gets affected by them, and neither of those movements are even the issue here.

I don't agree with the booing either way whether the players had said that or not.

The whole thing with it being "BLM" is the issue for a lot of people I'd guess as it is political and it's really hard to separate it.

If it had been something else like the Kick it Out Campaign before every game I'd guess the opposition to it would have been a lot less. (with some cunts still having an issue)

It's like me saying I am going to Nazi Salute later on but it's not political, I am just remembering those lost in the war. There's no getting away from it, it very much is a political statement.

 

[clint van damme]

You can disagree with it without booing to be fair. Unless it is referees and opposition players, they deserve the abuse.

I personally thing it should end now even though I'm behind the message. Though there should be an on going campaign.though I'm not sure in which form if I'm honest.

I also think the FA hierarchy are hiding behind it and if they want to send out a message that should look at their own demographic which in no way represents the people that play/played the game of those that watch it.
They should also be doing more to increase the number of black managers in the game.
It's unfathomable that with so many black players there are so few managers

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just answer the question and stop whining about having your feelings hurt, plenty of other people on here seem capable of having the conversation.

Because if you’re accusing people of being racist who aren’t then yes they’ll get pissed off. Inform me rather than take the piss and you might get somewhere. Black power used to be a slogan for violent protest-at what point in history did it stop being that?

 

[Skybluefaz]

I don't agree with the booing either way whether the players had said that or not.

The whole thing with it being "BLM" is the issue for a lot of people I'd guess as it is political and it's really hard to separate it.

If it had been something else like the Kick it Out Campaign before every game I'd guess the opposition to it would have been a lot less.

It's like me saying I am going to Nazi Salute later on but it's not political, I am just remembering those lost in the war.

There's no getting away from it, it very much is a political statement.

I feel like the BLM thing is just a convenient excuse to be a racist. Look at the fucking sainsburys advert. Are people going to claim the dude was making Marxist Gravy and that's why they were all saying they were going to boycott Sainsbury's?

 

[clint van damme]

I don't agree with the booing either way whether the players had said that or not.

The whole thing with it being "BLM" is the issue for a lot of people I'd guess as it is political and it's really hard to separate it.

If it had been something else like the Kick it Out Campaign before every game I'd guess the opposition to it would have been a lot less.

It's like me saying I am going to Nazi Salute later on but it's not political, I am just remembering those lost in the war.

There's no getting away from it, it very much is a political statement.

This the BLM is Marxist is bollocks and a sm9kescreen.
If someone from the ERG started a campaign with an anti racist message I wouldn't say I'm not supporting that they're a neo liberal wank. I'd say for once I'm in agreement because I don't like racism.

It doesn't I agree with everything else they stand for

 

[Nick]

I feel like the BLM thing is just a convenient excuse to be a racist. Look at the fucking sainsburys advert. Are people going to claim the dude was making Marxist Gravy and that's why they were all saying they were going to boycott Sainsbury's?

I said it at the time there should be a campaign but not about politics that BLM was about as it would then always be linked with that political movement.

I'm more offended by the scouse Sainsburys advert.

 

[SBT]

I don't agree with the booing either way whether the players had said that or not.

The whole thing with it being "BLM" is the issue for a lot of people I'd guess as it is political and it's really hard to separate it.

If it had been something else like the Kick it Out Campaign before every game I'd guess the opposition to it would have been a lot less.

It's like me saying I am going to Nazi Salute later on but it's not political, I am just remembering those lost in the war.

There's no getting away from it, it very much is a political statement.

It's not really hard to separate it. I've seen football fans attack police officers and spew political nonsense before, but it's quite easy to separate them from the normal, peaceful majority. Unless I had a grudge, of course. And again - the guys protesting are literally telling you that it's not a political statement. If you're still struggling to separate it, let that help you!

And c'mon man....a Nazi salute analogy?

 

[Grendel]

More sarcy crap rather than trying to inform.

lol I read that - it’s a typical attempt to take some knowledgeable high ground that falls flat and misses the point.

 

[Skybluefaz]

I said it at the time there should be a campaign but not about politics that BLM was about as it would then always be linked with that political movement.

I'm more offended by the scouse Sainsburys advert.

Well the Millwall fans also have a song for that unfortunately.

 

[Nick]

It's not really hard to separate it. I've seen football fans attack police officers and spew political nonsense before, but it's quite easy to separate them from the normal, peaceful majority. Unless I had a grudge, of course. And again - the guys protesting are literally telling you that it's not a political statement. If you're still struggling to separate it, let that help you!

And c'mon man....a Nazi salute analogy?

I don't really agree with any of the politics in football and of course attacking police. It's not just this.

Yeah but if I was doing a nazi salute I'd be telling you it's nothing to do with Hitler so that means it isn't, right? Surely as I am telling you that something I am doing isn't linked or political then it means it isn't??

 

[SBT]

Because if you’re accusing people of being racist who aren’t then yes they’ll get pissed off. Inform me rather than take the piss and you might get somewhere. Black power used to be a slogan for violent protest-at what point in history did it stop being that?

I've been quite clear in not calling you a racist, so maybe you don't need to be as upset as you say you are.

Plenty of other people have already tried to point you in the right direction, but if you're still looking for more articles which explain why raising a fist isn't always an indefensible call for violent revolution, then:

Here's a brief overview of the history of raising fists: The history of the raised fist, a global symbol of fighting oppression

Here's one athlete's interview on why he raises a fist before games (he even mentions black power as part of it!): Robert Quinn explains the reason for his raised fist

More where that came from too.

 

[SBT]

Yeah but if I was doing a nazi salute I'd be telling you it's nothing to do with Hitler so that means it isn't, right? Surely as I am telling you that something I am doing isn't linked or political then it means it isn't??

Your Hitler argument would be in spectacularly bad faith, so yeah, I'd feel quite comfortable not comparing it with this.

 

[Nick]

Your Hitler argument would be in spectacularly bad faith, so yeah, I'd feel quite comfortable not comparing it with this.

I'd be saying it wasn't political or linked though so it wouldn't be. That's how it works.

 

[Grendel]

Your Hitler argument would be in spectacularly bad faith, so yeah, I'd feel quite comfortable not comparing it with this.

Well I can think of one footballer who may have done just that some 20 years ago

 

[SBT]

I'd be saying it wasn't political or linked though so it wouldn't be. That's how it works.

Why not give it a go and see if people agree! Personally I feel more comfortable defending the right to kneel than I do defending the right to give Nazi salutes.

 

[clint van damme]

Well I can think of one footballer who may have done just that some 20 years ago

No need, Les Sealey isn't here to defend himself!

 

[Skybluefaz]

That Ferdinand documentary is worth a watch if you are wondering why football still needs this.

 

[Nick]

Why not give it a go and see if people agree! Personally I feel more comfortable defending the right to kneel than I do defending the right to give Nazi salutes.

I am just using your logic.

Personally I don't think theres a place for political things. The issue was when it all started Sky etc were too quick to jump on it without realising it was political.

Absolutely nothing wrong with things like rainbow laces, kick it out etc and sending out messages about anti racism etc.

 

[Grendel]

No need, Les Sealey isn't here to defend himself!

Lol not him - that right arm would have been out in full force

 

[skybluetony176]

More sarcy crap rather than trying to inform.

WTF. What’s scary about that? Plus I gave you two facts. The athletes that Lewis Hamilton referenced while talking about it wore no shoes and black socks as well as the black gloves. Both were done deliberately as two different symbols. Lewis did neither.

 

[Otis]

Well I can think of one footballer who may have done just that some 20 years ago

Di Canio?

 

[Nick]

He said he isn't racist so surely we just accept that?

 

[clint van damme]

Lol not him - that right arm would have been out in full force

I made that post in jest but then thought actually, that could be who Grendels referring to!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

WTF. What’s scary about that? Plus I gave you two facts. The athletes that Lewis Hamilton referenced while talking about it wore no shoes and black socks as well as the black gloves. Both were done deliberately as two different symbols. Lewis did neither.

Are you trying to tell a black person he doesn’t know what he’s talking about on black power?

 

[SBT]

I am just using your logic.

Personally I don't think theres a place for political things. The issue was when it all started Sky etc were too quick to jump on it without realising it was political.

Absolutely nothing wrong with things like rainbow laces, kick it out etc and sending out messages about anti racism etc.

You're using my logic on a ridiculous comparison that doesn't make any sense, it isn't really working.

I think we all agree it's important to listen to the players who are leading and taking part in this movement. If any of them have said they're doing this as a political statement, then we can definitely talk about whether it should be a part of the game. If they're telling us the opposite, and there's no good reason to doubt them (your Nazi fantasies don't count!), then I think we should listen to that instead.

I know there are some protests you like, and others that annoy you, but right now I see a lot of people twisting themselves in knots to say this is political, when the evidence is pointing to the opposite.

 

[Otis]

He said he isn't racist so surely we just accept that?

That says otherwise though.

 

[SBT]

I made that post in jest but then thought actually, that could be who Grendels referring to!

For some reason I was thinking of Mark Bosnich before someone mentioned Di Canio!