Grendel
Well-Known Member
The real question is what if a player refused to do it?
Take the knee (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter robbiekeane
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The real question is what if a player refused to do it?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
They of course should be allowed to. The main problem I have with this incident yesterday is that the players came out on Friday and issued a statement and said that for them it wasn't a political statement at all and just a stance against discrimination.
Why would anyone then want to still go ahead and arrange an organised booing? This was their own players.
You realise the Millwall players released a statement last night saying very clearly that it has never had anything to do with politics? First Team squad release statement
Let's not do the white power vs black power thing now. I'm guessing you know the difference between the two movements, and who gets affected by them, and neither of those movements are even the issue here.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
More sarcy crap rather than trying to inform.
Just answer the question and stop whining about having your feelings hurt, plenty of other people on here seem capable of having the conversation.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The “black power salute”, an international symbol of solidarity: Raised fist - Wikipedia
The white power salute, an international symbol of fascism and racist ideology:White supremacy - Wikipedia
It’s about their status in society. Raising a fist in solidarity is not the same as asking for a pure white ethnostate. FFS.
Nick
Administrator
I don't agree with the booing either way whether the players had said that or not.
The whole thing with it being "BLM" is the issue for a lot of people I'd guess as it is political and it's really hard to separate it.
If it had been something else like the Kick it Out Campaign before every game I'd guess the opposition to it would have been a lot less. (with some cunts still having an issue)
It's like me saying I am going to Nazi Salute later on but it's not political, I am just remembering those lost in the war. There's no getting away from it, it very much is a political statement.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I personally thing it should end now even though I'm behind the message. Though there should be an on going campaign.though I'm not sure in which form if I'm honest.
I also think the FA hierarchy are hiding behind it and if they want to send out a message that should look at their own demographic which in no way represents the people that play/played the game of those that watch it.
They should also be doing more to increase the number of black managers in the game.
It's unfathomable that with so many black players there are so few managers
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
I feel like the BLM thing is just a convenient excuse to be a racist. Look at the fucking sainsburys advert. Are people going to claim the dude was making Marxist Gravy and that's why they were all saying they were going to boycott Sainsbury's?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
This the BLM is Marxist is bollocks and a sm9kescreen.
If someone from the ERG started a campaign with an anti racist message I wouldn't say I'm not supporting that they're a neo liberal wank. I'd say for once I'm in agreement because I don't like racism.
It doesn't I agree with everything else they stand for
Nick
Administrator
I said it at the time there should be a campaign but not about politics that BLM was about as it would then always be linked with that political movement.
I'm more offended by the scouse Sainsburys advert.
It's not really hard to separate it. I've seen football fans attack police officers and spew political nonsense before, but it's quite easy to separate them from the normal, peaceful majority. Unless I had a grudge, of course. And again - the guys protesting are literally telling you that it's not a political statement. If you're still struggling to separate it, let that help you!
And c'mon man....a Nazi salute analogy?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
lol I read that - it’s a typical attempt to take some knowledgeable high ground that falls flat and misses the point.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Well the Millwall fans also have a song for that unfortunately.
Nick
Administrator
I don't really agree with any of the politics in football and of course attacking police. It's not just this.
Yeah but if I was doing a nazi salute I'd be telling you it's nothing to do with Hitler so that means it isn't, right? Surely as I am telling you that something I am doing isn't linked or political then it means it isn't??
I've been quite clear in not calling you a racist, so maybe you don't need to be as upset as you say you are.
Plenty of other people have already tried to point you in the right direction, but if you're still looking for more articles which explain why raising a fist isn't always an indefensible call for violent revolution, then:
Here's a brief overview of the history of raising fists: The history of the raised fist, a global symbol of fighting oppression
Here's one athlete's interview on why he raises a fist before games (he even mentions black power as part of it!): Robert Quinn explains the reason for his raised fist
More where that came from too.
Your Hitler argument would be in spectacularly bad faith, so yeah, I'd feel quite comfortable not comparing it with this.
Why not give it a go and see if people agree! Personally I feel more comfortable defending the right to kneel than I do defending the right to give Nazi salutes.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
No need, Les Sealey isn't here to defend himself!
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
That Ferdinand documentary is worth a watch if you are wondering why football still needs this.
Nick
Administrator
I am just using your logic.
Personally I don't think theres a place for political things. The issue was when it all started Sky etc were too quick to jump on it without realising it was political.
Absolutely nothing wrong with things like rainbow laces, kick it out etc and sending out messages about anti racism etc.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Lol not him - that right arm would have been out in full force
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
WTF. What’s scary about that? Plus I gave you two facts. The athletes that Lewis Hamilton referenced while talking about it wore no shoes and black socks as well as the black gloves. Both were done deliberately as two different symbols. Lewis did neither.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Di Canio?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I made that post in jest but then thought actually, that could be who Grendels referring to!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Are you trying to tell a black person he doesn’t know what he’s talking about on black power?
You're using my logic on a ridiculous comparison that doesn't make any sense, it isn't really working.
I think we all agree it's important to listen to the players who are leading and taking part in this movement. If any of them have said they're doing this as a political statement, then we can definitely talk about whether it should be a part of the game. If they're telling us the opposite, and there's no good reason to doubt them (your Nazi fantasies don't count!), then I think we should listen to that instead.
I know there are some protests you like, and others that annoy you, but right now I see a lot of people twisting themselves in knots to say this is political, when the evidence is pointing to the opposite.
Otis
Well-Known Member
That says otherwise though.
He said he isn't racist so surely we just accept that?
For some reason I was thinking of Mark Bosnich before someone mentioned Di Canio!