Do you want to discuss boring politics? (273 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

Since 2005 the right (CON + UKIP or CON + BXP) has been growing more and more popular there. It's just a general trend that's been ongoing for a while and now with no BXP or UKIP to split the vote it was inevitable.



2005
LAB 18k / CON + UKIP 5k

2010
LAB 16k / CON + UKIP 13k

2015
LAB 14k / UKIP + CON 18k

2017
LAB 22k / CON + UKIP 19k

2019
LAB 15k / CON + BXP 22k

That still doesn't explain why Labour have gone from 15k to 8k in 18 months though

 

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[fernandopartridge]

But they also think their workmates are lazy bastards or that they would leave a burning building.

It’s deeper than any comment. It’s a guttural feeling that the working class aren’t liked by Labour activists and some MPs. It’s born out of social activism needing to make every problem sound huge to get support IMO.

It’s the sneering at the flag. The sneering at working class culture. The sneering at voters for voting how they voted.

That’s the activist left. The political establishment soft left isn’t much better, all patronising and maternal and knows what’s best.

Immigration was just a microcosm but a good case study. People said “I don’t like the pace of change in my community” (a perfectly normal human reaction seen around the world and not rooted in racism) Labour saw it as a defect that needed fixing in people “too racist” “too easily led by the media” “too stupid to understand how important immigrants are”.

Focus on every smaller groups at the exclusion of the majority. The problem with minority identity politics is by definition it doesn’t concern a majority of people.

The closest Labour have is Jess Phillips for not hating the working class. But instead she decided to hate 49% of the population instead (I don’t think that’s true but that’s what’s received).

The left are perfectly capable of pulling their head out of their arses, having a bit of humility, and seeing the upper class as the enemy not the bloke in the pub who said “blind spot” in front of a blind person or whatever.

We talk condescendingly about the Tories putting the working class against each other but then do it ourselves all the fucking time.

I assume that London isn't a working class city

 

[Ian1779]

Agreed, this isn't on Starmer. It's been coming since way before Starmer.

Vaccine bounce & Brexit are impossible to counter, it really doesn't matter who the LOTO is at the moment Johnson is just unbeatable.

The second part may well be true right now. So in that case, just concentrate on what you can do where you have control and show people that you can get things done. And maybe don’t make stupid decisions like the Lab candidate choice for a Hartlepool along the way.

 

[Skybluefaz]

The second part may well be true right now. So in that case, just concentrate on what you can do where you have control and show people that you can get things done. And maybe don’t make stupid decisions like the Lab candidate choice for a Hartlepool along the way.

That guy did seem like a right prick, and a legitimate stick to beat Starmer with.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Labour would have lost Hartlepool in 2019 had the Brexit Party not split the vote. This is not a surprising result in any way.

The big thing in 2017 was that UKIP voters flipped to Labour. The current trend is that Brexit Party votes are being transferred to the Tories.

If that trend follows, there are some really big hitters at risk in the Labour Party. Ed Miliband (Doncaster), Dan Jervis (Barnsley) and Ian Lavery (Wansbeck).

The truth is that Labour has failed on the two fundamental issues in the UK politics in the 2010s. Both the Scottish Independence and Brexit Referendums has caused a realignment in UK politics and the Labour Party hasn’t adapted at all.

It’s a party that is completely out of touch with the real world. Twitter is not a reliable source of public opinion.

 

[PVA]

That still doesn't explain why Labour have gone from 15k to 8k in 18 months though

Turnout was much lower this time around so just saying they lost 7k votes isn't overly telling, need to look at the %

It was a 9% drop, the same as they had in the 2010 election which is what I meant by this is not a new thing, it's been happening for a while. -7% in 2015 too.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Oh, even in the 70s, Harold Wilson realised that in opposition to Ted Heath, what he needed to emphasise was Northern pipe smoker, rather than Oxford educated.

This works fine until you realise that they really like the Etonian and Oxford Classics graduate who randomly whacks the odd bit of Latin into his speeches. So it ain't that that bothers them.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I'm not sure, just watched Mandelson talking and I agree with him. I don't think it's a Starmer problem, although he's not an inspiring individual is he, let's be honest. Its the shadow of Corbyn. That bloke butchered the Labour party.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

It’s shortsighted to pin it on Corbyn. There were fundamental issues that predated the Corbyn era.

Miliband oversaw the loss of Scotland and there’s a reason why parties like BNP (initially) and later UKIP began to hoover up Labour votes on the issue of immigration.

You’ve got Brown dismissing a voter as a ‘bigot’ for voicing concerns over immigration. Emily Thornberry mocking someone for having a

The disconnect with its traditional base has been real for sometime and the chickens are finally came to roost in Scotland first, then in England.

Starmer was the best candidate, but he remains in this metropolitan London bubble and is destined to carry on the rot at this rate.

 

[PVA]

This works fine until you realise that they really like the Etonian and Oxford Classics graduate who randomly whacks the odd bit of Latin into his speeches. So it ain't that that bothers them.

Yes exactly.

A lot of what is, rightly, leveled at Labour is just as applicable to the Tories.

 

[Philosoraptor]

First call for Starmer to go on TV from the right of the party*.

*Moderate if listening to Schmmee.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You smallist.

In fact you surprise me - I'm sure there must be an intersectionalist wing of the Labour party that is the voice for small people.

Studies have actually shown height to be as big a barrier as race and gender. Massively disproportionate number of the tallest 1% are in very powerful jobs at executive level.

 

[Evo1883]

Sad about Labour, very predictable .

As they say

Go woke , go broke

Nobody listens

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This works fine until you realise that they really like the Etonian and Oxford Classics graduate who randomly whacks the odd bit of Latin into his speeches. So it ain't that that bothers them.

On the fundamental issues, Boris Johnson speaks the language of the working class. Whom overwhelmingly supports Brexit and is generally socially conservative in these red wall seats.

Besides, Labour’s elite has also been overwhelmingly Oxbridge educated too. In relation to Corbyn, his entire career was in politics. Gone are the days where your Labour MPs who were like Dennis Skinner and actually worked a manual Labour job.

 

[PVA]

Studies have actually shown height to be as big a barrier as race and gender. Massively disproportionate number of the tallest 1% are in very powerful jobs at executive level.

Yep, I was being serious when I said Sunak couldn't be PM for that reason!

The average male height in the US is 5'9. The last time they elected a president under 5'9 was 1897!


Now... who is the tallest man in the Labour party?...

 

[David O'Day]

Sensible non knew jerk from Ian Dunt

Week in Review: Labour's Hartlepool disaster - Politics.co.uk

Starmer needs the Red Wall seats in order to win. Today's result is a sign of significant failure.

www.politics.co.uk

 

[wingy]

Yep, I was being serious when I said Sunak couldn't be PM for that reason!

The average male height in the US is 5'9. The last time they elected a president under 5'9 was 1897!


Now... who is the tallest man in the Labour party?...

Yeah but they've probably grown a foot or so in a century.

 

[Evo1883]

But they also think their workmates are lazy bastards or that they would leave a burning building.

It’s deeper than any comment. It’s a guttural feeling that the working class aren’t liked by Labour activists and some MPs. It’s born out of social activism needing to make every problem sound huge to get support IMO.

It’s the sneering at the flag. The sneering at working class culture. The sneering at voters for voting how they voted.

That’s the activist left. The political establishment soft left isn’t much better, all patronising and maternal and knows what’s best.

Immigration was just a microcosm but a good case study. People said “I don’t like the pace of change in my community” (a perfectly normal human reaction seen around the world and not rooted in racism) Labour saw it as a defect that needed fixing in people “too racist” “too easily led by the media” “too stupid to understand how important immigrants are”.

Focus on every smaller groups at the exclusion of the majority. The problem with minority identity politics is by definition it doesn’t concern a majority of people.

The closest Labour have is Jess Phillips for not hating the working class. But instead she decided to hate 49% of the population instead (I don’t think that’s true but that’s what’s received).

The left are perfectly capable of pulling their head out of their arses, having a bit of humility, and seeing the upper class as the enemy not the bloke in the pub who said “blind spot” in front of a blind person or whatever.

We talk condescendingly about the Tories putting the working class against each other but then do it ourselves all the fucking time.

I think you are one of the only people on this thread that's politically left leaning that gets it .

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s not the fault of Momentum, they often represent younger people trying to engage in politics. You need to look at the middle class London centrist politicians that think they know what is best for Northern working class people.

Momentum are very offputting to many moderates.

If the issue was about the middle class London centric knowing what's best for Northern working class people why are they voting for a party with a heavy influence from upper class south east centric people that think they know whats best for Northern working class people.

 

[SBT]

I class myself as working class, come from parents who didn't own a property and had low paid jobs. Maybe as a home owner I don't fit into your criteria. A few years ago I was working night shifts stacking shelves to help myself be able to study and other personal circumstances. Many of the people in there fucking hated Corbyn. He was seen as unpatriotic, IRA sympathiser etc. He definitely cut through with the youth, singing his name at Glasto and all that stuff proved it. I would describe the working class support as polarised rather than huge.

Glastonbury, working class?!

 

[fatso]

Yep. Lie and just tell them whatever they want to hear. Judge the way the wind is blowing and follow that. It's what Johnson does every time.

The way the wind is blowing IS public opinion.
You listen to it and act accordingly.

The alternative would see the tail wagging the dog, which is unlikely to win an election.

Boris declared he would get Brexit done.
He also said he would get a vaccine rolled out.
And he has delivered on both these key points.

While he deliveres, the electorate wont worry themselves with who paid for the wallpaper
Or who got what contracts, or who he got pregnant.

When he stops delivering he will be out.
But as of today, there is no realistic opposition.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Glastonbury, working class?!

No, youth. Fair enough I deviated from the point. Chalk up a point for yourself or something.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

On the fundamental issues, Boris Johnson speaks the language of the working class. Whom overwhelmingly supports Brexit and is generally socially conservative in these red wall seats.

Besides, Labour’s elite has also been overwhelmingly Oxbridge educated too. In relation to Corbyn, his entire career was in politics. Gone are the days where your Labour MPs who were like Dennis Skinner and actually worked a manual Labour job.

I'm not arguing that a lot of current Labour bigwigs aren't from highly educated backgrounds. But again how many of the Tories have done that. Johnson was a member of the supposed MSM elite. So if that was such an issue to them they wouldn't vote for them.

Johnson doesn't 'speak the language of the people'. What he does well is gauge the mood and just repeats what appears to be the most popular thing being said, whether he believes it or not and does it in an entertaining manner. Look at Brexit. No-one knew which way it was likely to go so he wrote pieces for and against. The when he saw it would likely be the end of Cameron and give him a shot at leader if he lost he chose the opposite side. It was all about what he got out of it.

 

[SBT]

No, youth. Fair enough I deviated from the point. Chalk up a point for yourself or something.

Didn't mean it as point-scoring!

Unfortunately for Corbyn/Labour, the 150,000 people at Glastonbury probably vote in a total of four or five different constituencies.

 

[fatso]

What are you classifying as working class? To me it’s people who are working in more precarious jobs and for lower remuneration and have insecure housing situations. They tend to be under 45 and support labour massively.

I've worked on a factory shop floor all my working life, i work a 3 shift system, and I'm a member of a trade union, I class myself as working class.
And yet neither myself or any one of my colleagues who expressed an opinion voted for Corbyn.
When I expressed this to my Corbyn voting daughter, she said it was because we are all white, middleaged, racist, bnp supporting gammons (whatever that is)

Maybe that says more about the new age of labour supporters.

 

[PVA]

Yeah but they've probably grown a foot or so in a century.

Even if you take into account average height at the time, rather than the current average, only two Presidents in the last 120 years have been under the mark. Quite the stat I think!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sad about Labour, very predictable .

As they say

Go woke , go broke

Nobody listens

Why would going woke explain the loss of votes to Lib Dem’s and Green?

 

[clint van damme]

I'm not sure, just watched Mandelson talking and I agree with him. I don't think it's a Starmer problem, although he's not an inspiring individual is he, let's be honest. Its the shadow of Corbyn. That bloke butchered the Labour party.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Its 2030, Keir Starmers Labour have just finished 5th in the general election, behind the tories, the Northern independence Party, the British Union of fascists and the monster raving looney party, his supprters blamed the deceased former leader Jeremy Corbyn for the defeat but said we will learn from this.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Tories doing well in early Scottish counting apparently.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

All this talk of "winning back the working class vote" too. The working class are those earning less than £25k who don't own a home and are having to sell their labour to survive. What people are referring to are people who used to be working class but are now retired with mortgages paid off and living pretty on their pensions. If that's who you're aiming for then fine but working class support for Labour under Corbyn was huge, it doesn't matter if those working people live in a city and have an education, they are still renters and workers. Jettisoning them isn't going to work at all.

BUILD.A.COALITION

Whenever did people who've worked in crappy and/boring jobs for most of their life in order to afford a family and over 30 years pay back three times on their house than it cost, and who now live on modest pensions, become not the working class.

I must have missed that change.

Or are you simply saying that whereas Labour once appealed to the C1 and C2s, now it's only the D and E's?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Tories doing well in early Scottish counting apparently.

That’s the important one. Yesterday’s vote will cause a lot of noise today but that will settle down...if Labour factions allow it to.

ps where did you hear that BSB, got a mole up there ?!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That’s the important one. Yesterday’s vote will cause a lot of noise today but that will settle down...if Labour factions allow it to.

ps where did you hear that BSB, got a mole up there ?!

Got a couple of contacts still from up there.

 

[bezzer]

11 years into a Tory Government............

Conservatives winning Councils.
Labour losing Councillors.
Tory sleaze.
Gove, Patel, Williamson, Hancock, all apparently hated and liabilities.

Yet Labour still lost Hartlepool

Let the Labour hand-wringing, infighting and backstabbing begin!

 

[Skybluefaz]

I've worked on a factory shop floor all my working life, i work a 3 shift system, and I'm a member of a trade union, I class myself as working class.
And yet neither myself or any one of my colleagues who expressed an opinion voted for Corbyn.
When I expressed this to my Corbyn voting daughter, she said it was because we are all white, middleaged, racist, bnp supporting gammons (whatever that is)

Maybe that says more about the new age of labour supporters.

Crazy how your daughter who knows you so well would just come out with that stuff.

 

[Skybluefaz]

11 years into a Tory Government............

Conservatives winning Councils.
Labour losing Councillors.
Tory sleaze.
Gove, Patel, Williamson, Hancock, all apparently hated and liabilities.

Yet Labour still lost Hartlepool

Let the Labour hand-wringing, infighting and backstabbing begin!

The silent Tories are out today. Let us know what makes them so attractive to you?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

11 years into a Tory Government............

Conservatives winning Councils.
Labour losing Councillors.
Tory sleaze.
Gove, Patel, Williamson, Hancock, all apparently hated and liabilities.

Yet Labour still lost Hartlepool

Let the Labour hand-wringing, infighting and backstabbing begin!

Yeah there is much to laugh at a one party state headed by a corrupt lazy liar of a PM