Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
It is. Just no-one is willing to utter the dirtiest word in politics.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (172 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
It is. Just no-one is willing to utter the dirtiest word in politics.
fatso
Well-Known Member
But where has Starmer been?
He may have been brought in to give labour a broader appeal, but he's been anonymous during his time in office.
Boris has "got Brexit done" rolled out furlough and grants to help businesses through the pandemic, rolled out one of the best vaccine programs in the world, increased his majority, had a baby, and still managed to decorate his flat!
ok I'm being a bit flippant, but Starmer isn't the leader Labour need (so far at least)He needs to purge the party of the cancer that is the hard left socialism of momentum, and give the party the kind of broad based appeal that can win voters back.
If they dont do it soon they face decades in the political wilderness or even their total demise.
fatso
Well-Known Member
That's not totally true though, the bank of england controlled interest rates, but they do so by looking at a number of factors that the government DO have a great deal of influence over.
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next year when the excess government borrowing due to covid starts to filter through to the treasury, and what happens to jobs once furlough finishes, and if there's any increase in high street spending once all restrictions are lifted.
Uncertain times, and more challenges lie ahead.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I think I've cracked it!
Argument on here is that peole will vote for Tories because they expect them to be self-serving arseholes who think they're better than them. So Labour just come out and say 'yes, we're self serving arseholes too who think we're better than you so which do you want - the self-serving arseholes who take your taxes to give to themselves and their mates or the self-serving arseholes who'll fund public spending on the NHS and schools.
Oh, and install Idris Elba s leader. Would help get the black vote, the female vote and would appeal to a lot of blokes over a number of age-groups.
While i'm at it, if the Greens are listening. Get David Attenborough in as leader and you're guaranteed a landslide. Actually, I've probably just put you off saying that haven't I? Problems with climate chance and erosion and stuff.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But where has Starmer been?
He may have been brought in to give labour a broader appeal, but he's been anonymous during his time in office.
Boris has "got Brexit done" rolled out furlough and grants to help businesses through the pandemic, rolled out one of the best vaccine programs in the world, increased his majority, had a baby, and still managed to decorate his flat!
He needs to purge the party of the cancer that is the hard left socialism of momentum, and give the party the kind of broad based appeal that can win voters back.
If they dont do it soon they face decades in the political wilderness or even their total demise.
This I can agree on. He's not got the personality to appeal to those who'll vote for Boris just because they find him funny and entertaining.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The problem is in a pandemic if you go against government, it doesn't play well. I'll be more concerned if in the runup to a general election, he is still anonymous.But where has Starmer been?
He may have been brought in to give labour a broader appeal, but he's been anonymous during his time in office.
Boris has "got Brexit done" rolled out furlough and grants to help businesses through the pandemic, rolled out one of the best vaccine programs in the world, increased his majority, had a baby, and still managed to decorate his flat!
He needs to purge the party of the cancer that is the hard left socialism of momentum, and give the party the kind of broad based appeal that can win voters back.
If they dont do it soon they face decades in the political wilderness or even their total demise.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
True enough about the interest rates, although really the weird thing is higher borrowing by the country could be argued to create lower interest rates because a lot of nations (esp those with supposed advanced economies) have a sizeable public debt and run a deficit, so if they owe a lot of money and are borrowing more they're not going to want high interest rates.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
But where has Starmer been?
He may have been brought in to give labour a broader appeal, but he's been anonymous during his time in office.
Boris has "got Brexit done" rolled out furlough and grants to help businesses through the pandemic, rolled out one of the best vaccine programs in the world, increased his majority, had a baby, and still managed to decorate his flat!
He needs to purge the party of the cancer that is the hard left socialism of momentum, and give the party the kind of broad based appeal that can win voters back.
If they dont do it soon they face decades in the political wilderness or even their total demise.
Well Starmer did laugh at teachers a few times to try and win over some Daily Mail readers, doesn’t seem to have worked sadly
Exactly. As much as I'm sure he'd love to call out Johnson and the government for their total ineptitude it would not go down very well at the moment with them being absolutely teflon in the middle of the vaccine bounce.
It make him look weak and ineffective, but he has to bide his time, wait for the Covid handling inquiries to start, wait for the impacts of Brexit to hit etc, and then go on the offensive.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
hill83
Well-Known Member
You’re being very binary here, there are many countries which do better with social care than we do whether through mandatory insurance or public systems. The question isn’t “is the perfect system possible it’s “can we do better” and we can. Also whatever we make our priority is affordable.
Even Sweden only spends 3.6% on social care and that’s an outlier. We already get some of the best value for health spending and likely would for social care too.
Secondly, Labour didn’t stand on the steps of Downing Street after they were elected and say this:
They also didn’t do this:
They did this:
Anecdotal but my dad has had mental health issues for around 15 years. (after being attacked with a hammer, which I found out about on the front page of the cov telegraph but that's another story).
He was pumped full of pills for years and turned to alcohol and has nearly died because of it a couple of times.
He was completely left to his own devices and turned down for any care due to his drinking. Luckily his ex works in social care and pulled a few strings to get him into rehab in Kent which is a charity run place. (He's still there now and hasn't had a drink since last October)
He'd 100% be dead without it. Can't be a stand alone story. He'd be dead without turning to charity. Doctors ignored him and didn't look into the huge amount of pills they were feeding him which all added to his liver damage. Basically told to fuck off and die by the system.
Also, although not quite related, he got compensation for being attacked by a previously mentioned hammer but due to the payout they stopped his disability money, which they continue to do regularly and the comp wasn't even worth talking about value wise. He also has to fill out forms and be revaluated every 3 months to receive the disability money which he can't do himself. And to add to that his compensation was instantly halved due to having a criminal record which I kid you not was a minor scuffle at a cov away game when he was 15.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why? I wouldn’t.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Wasn’t scaremongering about the EU enforcing ID cards part of the vote leave campaign?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Given that this is apparently about protecting democracy how many of the changes recommended by the Russia report have been implemented by the Government? I’m hearing zero.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Report into Russian / outside interference in election found it to have happened and be an ongoing risk, and identified some recommendations = Not one recommendation has been implemented.
Election fraud in this country to be found to be so low, it is classed as non-existant = ID cards for voters
Legislation to make Protesting illegal = stopping reducing free speech.
Legislation to prevent universities for cancelling speakers that may have far right or xenophobic views and allow them to sue for damages = promoting 'free' speech
Fuck me this country is led by a load of Charlatans.
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Election fraud in this country to be found to be so low, it is classed as non-existant = ID cards for voters
Legislation to make Protesting illegal = stopping reducing free speech.
Legislation to prevent universities for cancelling speakers that may have far right or xenophobic views and allow them to sue for damages = promoting 'free' speech
Fuck me this country is led by a load of Charlatans.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Pressing like on that does't seem right. What a horrific thing to happen. Glad he's getting some help now.
My ex worked in mental health. Cuts were made (as part of the top down reorganisation Cameron promised wouldn't happen) which they knew would impact on the ability to provide the server and, at best, huge delays in getting people into the correct facilities. They raised their concerns to senior management and the response was a warning they'd be sacked if they spoke to the press.
Within a matter of months there was more than one death, including a murder, that was blamed on lack of available mental health services, exactly what they'd warned would happen and been told to shut up about.
The people higher up the chain are perfectly aware of these issues, they're just happy to ignore them.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Still waiting for Dom to feed back from his Tory Facebook groups....
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I couldn't hit 'like' either - it felt wrong.
Services in this country (and others to be fair) get cut so badly and it's the charities, volunteers and unpaid overtime that are left to pick up the slack. Salt of the earth decent people trying to make other's lives better and no matter how much they get foisted on them they try and fill the gap.
But sometimes I wonder if it might be better long term if they stopped for a bit. Show just how much we rely on the people that do these things for nothing to make anything work.
Governments might run the country, but these are the people that make the country run.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Problem is these people mostly suffer in silence away from society. Shut in homes or drinking themselves to death. Maybe you notice a few more homeless people.
People who’ve never had to work for a living like Johnson just don’t understand the problem. They can buy their way out of any issues.
hill83
Well-Known Member
My dads mate, and someone I considered a friend killed themselves on new years day last year after their disability money was stopped. Also had mental health issues.
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Politics is no longer about left or right, as the Tories have realised to their advantage | Lee de Wit
How should Labour respond to the Conservatives’ mix of social conservatism and state intervention, asks political psychologist Lee de Wit
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
It'll be closer than Hartlepool, local elections last week had the Tories only a few votes ahead on a small turnout.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yes but can you throw a custard pie while sneakily helping yourself to the public purse?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
It's a more 'metropolitan' constituency being in the big Leeds / Bradford conurbation, but can't see anything but an easy Tory win.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Think you’re right, which is kinda depressing considering it’s Jo Cox’s old seat and that’ll mean the ratty little terrorist got what he wanted.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Not really true, is it?
Labour haemorrhaged votes on both sides of the Brexit debate. Lost around 1 million votes to the Lib Dem’s and the Greens and about 800 thousand votes to the Brexit Party and the Tories. The Remainer’s were not happy happy with Labour lack of commitment to a second referendum whilst the Leaver’s weren’t happy at Labour’s lack of commitment to Brexit.
In the aftermath of the election, Momentum campaigners and even McDonnell conceded the manifesto program was meant for a 10 year government. On the doorstep, campaigners found people didn’t find the overall Labour offering to be credible.
Having popular policies is one thing, but it has to fit into a wider, viable program for government. Which was lacking a coherent policy on the issue of the day: Brexit.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Very much true when people are polled on their perceptions of the parties and politicians compared to their policy preferences. The Conservatives did a terrible job of their 10 years in government and got rewarded with a bumper majority off the back of a meaningless 3 word slogan.
It’s not about anything substantive really is it? Johnson polls as ‘looking more ministerial’ whereas Corbyn polled better on ‘cares about people like me’. And of course that woman on QT who voted Tory but seemed genuinely upset and surprised at her benefits being cut and it harder to get by. The formula is:
Long words
Posh accent
Acting like a rumbunctious clown
Wave the flag
Raise the pint
Bumper majority
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It is substantive
We used to run focus groups at Jaguar and it was owners of other luxury brands. So we’d ask what they’d like to see in a car and not tell them what marque the car was but then say the car meets all the criteria they apparently want
It gave people in engineering a warm feeling but it missed the point. The brand was tarnished and as soon as you revealed it’s a Jaguar no one wanted to be associated with it even though it ticked boxes. Old mans brand, behind the game, can’t be true, need to buy two as one will be in the garage
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Thank you for proving my point.