Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (206 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes

Well ok, but the crook CEOs are quite different to the scientists actually doing the company’s main service

 

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[clint van damme]

They are, Clint.

The people crashing vaccine centres are lunatics, but equally the ones wanting forced vaccines should also be on lists somewhere. It is wrong.

This pandemic has brought out some really awful behaviours in people all round.

the comparison wasn't with people wanting forced vaccines, it was with people calling the unvaccinated granny killers.

And to be honest, it's not even comparable with people who want forced vaccines, it would be with people forcibly vaccinating people, which I don't think has happened.

 

[Sick Boy]

The fuck are you on about? I said there will be a point. There will be judging the way people go on.

Of course people attacking vaccination stations should be dealt with. Absolute wrong uns. They should be locked up instantly, the same as if people are blocking ambulances etc. It's not on.

Yeah, I can really imagine a time in the near future with people being dragged off the street into vans. Have a word with yourself.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

the comparison wasn't with people wanting forced vaccines, it was with people calling the unvaccinated granny killers.

And to be honest, it's not even comparable with people who want forced vaccines, it would be with people forcibly vaccinating people, which I don't think has happened.

Aha, in which case I am with you.

However, the people wanting forced jabs is comparable in my eyes. If the government started doing it they would be enabled by many people thinking it is ok. We have seen it on here and I do not agree with it at all. I am however, appalled with those crashing vaccines sites etc. They are twats.

There shouldn´t be a case of picking sides. Just do what is right for you and get on with your lives.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, I can really imagine a time in the near future with people being dragged off the street into vans. Have a word with yourself.

So you can't imagine people being arrested for being unvaccinated?

Guess you would have said the same about covid passes and drones looking for people out walking.

It's not me who needs a word with myself.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you can't imagine people being arrested for being unvaccinated?

Guess you would have said the same about covid passes and drones looking for people out walking.

No I can’t imagine people cheering as mysterious people drag people off the street into vans.

 

[Nick]

No I can’t imagine people cheering as mysterious people drag people off the street into vans.

You're trying your best to rubbish it by saying mysterious people.

Can you really not see people cheering that somebody not vaccinated is arrested? It's perfectly plausible.

 

[Sick Boy]

You're trying your best to rubbish it by saying mysterious people.

Can you really not see people cheering that somebody not vaccinated is arrested? It's perfectly plausible.

So who are these people dragging the unvaccinated off the street into vans?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

No I can’t imagine people cheering as mysterious people drag people off the street into vans.

There are posters on this very forum that would, but it is not so much about cheering. The silence against it would be enough.

 

[Nick]

So who are these people dragging the unvaccinated off the street into vans?

Who usually arrests people?

 

[clint van damme]

Aha, in which case I am with you.

However, the people wanting forced jabs is comparable in my eyes. If the government started doing it they would be enabled by many people thinking it is ok. We have seen it on here and I do not agree with it at all. I am however, appalled with those crashing vaccines sites etc. They are twats.

There shouldn´t be a case of picking sides. Just do what is right for you and get on with your lives.

I don't agree with forcing people to have vaccinations, though I would say this, mandatory vaccinations helped eradicate a huge killer in this country , smallpox, so why I don't agree with them i don't think it's quite as sinister as you're making out but I would hope it doesn't come to that and wouldn't support it myself.

 

[Sick Boy]

Who usually arrests people?

Sorry but it’s the sort of nonsense that gets trotted out by the anti-vaxx brigade.

 

[Nick]

Sorry but it’s the sort of nonsense that gets trotted out by the anti-vaxx brigade.

Really? That people might be arrested for not being vaccinated?

There are already countries fining people for going out without being vaccinated.

As I said, plenty of things you would have shouted conspiracy and nonsense have actually happened.

 

[chiefdave]

The current estimated population of the UK is 67 million. According to the government dashboard 51.7m have had 1 dose, 47.4 have had 2 doses and 33.5m have had boosters.

What's happening to all these people picked up off the streets and bundled into vans? Even if you take one dose as vaccinated that's nearly 6m people who are eligible for vacciantion that haven't had a single dose, are we building loads of new jails to stick them all in indefinitely until they agree to be vaccinated?

 

[JAM See]

The current estimated population of the UK is 67 million. According to the government dashboard 51.7m have had 1 dose, 47.4 have had 2 doses and 33.5m have had boosters.

What's happening to all these people picked up off the streets and bundled into vans? Even if you take one dose as vaccinated that's nearly 6m people who are eligible for vacciantion that haven't had a single dose, are we building loads of new jails to stick them all in indefinitely until they agree to be vaccinated?

Nightingjails.

 

[skybluetony176]

The current estimated population of the UK is 67 million. According to the government dashboard 51.7m have had 1 dose, 47.4 have had 2 doses and 33.5m have had boosters.

What's happening to all these people picked up off the streets and bundled into vans? Even if you take one dose as vaccinated that's nearly 6m people who are eligible for vacciantion that haven't had a single dose, are we building loads of new jails to stick them all in indefinitely until they agree to be vaccinated?

To put that into context the UK prison population is circa 85,000 at any given time. 6 million isn’t remotely a possibility, for that reason alone the locking up the unvaccinated conspiracy theory is complete bollocks.

 

[SBAndy]

I’ve no doubt there will come a time where all unvaccinated are boarded onto a rocket and fired into the sun. You just wait.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I’ve no doubt there will come a time where all unvaccinated are boarded onto a rocket and fired into the sun. You just wait.

Thats obviously an exaggeration, but it did go from 'there won't be a two-tier society' to 'lock them all up at home it is their own fault' pretty quickly.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Thats obviously an exaggeration, but it did go from 'there won't be a two-tier society' to 'lock them all up at home it is their own fault' pretty quickly.

When you see a country like Switzerland treat unvaccinated people differently to vaccinated you have to have a reasonable conversation about what is and what isn’t appropriate
And also ensure that whichever side of the argument you are on you don’t dehumanise the other

So for me no one has the right to force someone else to have a vaccine
Those choosing not to have one are perfectly entitled not to
Choosing is an interesting word that I won’t expand on

I don’t think it’s wrong to accept those truisms and don’t see that changing

If someone is unvaccinated and gets poorly from covid and as a society we should treat them and make them well

I don’t see this changing. I am aware that our nhs pays people to help patients stop smoking and some treatments are given only if smoking stops. I feel a little uneasy about this

I fundamentally believe that it’s in the best interests of us as a society and for individuals to have a vaccine against covid. The evidence is incontrovertible that it reduces hospitalisations and deaths

I imagine the only people who suffer from not having one are the individuals themselves but the risk is probably similar to driving 75 on a motorway for most. That’s not too diminish the risk

One sign from the violent protest really grabbed me. 99.97% don’t die from covid

0.03% of 60000000 is 1.8million people

Back to Switzerland - a reasonable balanced democratic country - like us?

What are the ok restrictions on unvaccinated people that don’t dehumanise?

That’s the question for me. I’m working on the answer as I don’t know as I’m a libertarian who believes in the rights of the individual as part of a community that works for the good of all

I agree with Nick and others about already certain actions have been taken that are worrying but I hate the slippery slope argument as it seems lazy and risk is complex and needs more effort than a lazy argument

Where I am currently is that It feels like we should now be at the point where if you aren’t poorly you should be living normally but that risks transmitting the virus to others in society who may get very poorly or die. And I’m trying to understand whether I am or society is responsible for their decision or not

I’d hate to be the one making the decisions

 

[robbiekeane]

So for me no one has the right to force someone else to have a vaccine
Those choosing not to have one are perfectly entitled not to
Choosing is an interesting word that I won’t expand on

I don’t think it’s wrong to accept those truisms and don’t see that changing

If someone is unvaccinated and gets poorly from covid and as a society we should treat them and make them well

Perfectly entitled not to have the vaccine, to be more transmissible, and more likely to unnecessarily clog up NHS beds because they chose tik tok science, and they should also get the same treatment?

It’s madness Pete

 

[clint van damme]

Well, this is a depressing read

 

[robbiekeane]

i feel like I should have the right to drink ten pints of beer and drive. That’s my choice and it’s unfair to take it away from me

 

[shmmeee]

Well, this is a depressing read

All of her threads are TBF

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Perfectly entitled not to have the vaccine, to be more transmissible, and more likely to unnecessarily clog up NHS beds because they chose tik tok science, and they should also get the same treatment?

It’s madness Pete

I think that’s the point I’m trying to make. Drink driving is criminal but there’s a level of alcohol in the blood that’s ok
Speeding is similar 10% above the minimum is criminal but seems to be ok

So the equivalent of not having a vaccine wouldn’t be driving drunk I don’t think

 

[Sick Boy]

Perfectly entitled not to have the vaccine, to be more transmissible, and more likely to unnecessarily clog up NHS beds because they chose tik tok science, and they should also get the same treatment?

It’s madness Pete

Yeah the ICU in the local hospital here is full of unvaccinated covid patients.

 

[Sick Boy]

i feel like I should have the right to drink ten pints of beer and drive. That’s my choice and it’s unfair to take it away from me

…let’s not forget the attempted ongoing acts of violence and intimidation and talk of hanging doctors and nurses too.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Yeah the ICU in the local hospital here is full of unvaccinated covid patients.

Same here by all accounts Sick Boy (I heard 80-90%+). I think it should be made clear that vaccinated and/or other non Covid patients will have to take priority with ICU beds. It’s each to their own if people want to take the vaccine or not but everyone knows they are at higher risk of severe illness if they don’t, so these people* have got to accept if ICUs are full/filling up they have to wait in line. Sounds brutal but the fairest solution

If they aren’t worried about Covid most/all should be happy to accept this

*unless they cant for medical reasons

 

[Nick]

Perfectly entitled not to have the vaccine, to be more transmissible, and more likely to unnecessarily clog up NHS beds because they chose tik tok science, and they should also get the same treatment?

It’s madness Pete

OK, so what about Obese people? At what point do they get refused treatment and categorised for clogging up the NHS because they chose to keep eating and choosing not to exercise etc.

There's an obsession with "clogging up beds" but how many are obese and how much could be prevented if they weren't?

Will that really get mentioned much?

Where does it end?

 

[clint van damme]

OK, so what about Obese people? At what point do they get refused treatment and categorised for clogging up the NHS because they chose to keep eating and choosing not to exercise etc.

There's an obsession with "clogging up beds" but how many are obese and how much could be prevented if they weren't?

Will that really get mentioned much?

Where does it end?

Fucks sake, how many times, obesity isn't contagious. We're not seeing thousands of people become obese over night. And obese people do get refused certain treatments if they don't lose certain amount of weight first.

 

[shmmeee]

OK, so what about Obese people? At what point do they get refused treatment and categorised for clogging up the NHS because they chose to keep eating and choosing not to exercise etc.

There's an obsession with "clogging up beds" but how many are obese and how much could be prevented if they weren't?

Will that really get mentioned much?

Where does it end?

I don’t agree with differential treatment. That’s one hell of a slippery slope. Obesity and smoking are both side effects of untreated mental health issues IMO (I say that as a fat smoker), arguably anti vax sentiment is a side effect of a failed education and public health system.

I’ve not seen anyone say lock people up either. But if restrictions can be lifted for those who are vaccinated and if business want or need vaccinated staff that’s just the consequences of your own actions.

Let’s be honest as a fatty smoker if I could take a shot to put me at normal weight and never smoke again I’d take it today. But I can’t so it’s not comparable really.

 

[Nick]

Fucks sake, how many times, obesity isn't contagious. We're not seeing thousands of people become obese over night. And obese people do get refused certain treatments if they don't lose certain amount of weight first.

I didn't say it was contagious. However if it's about clogging up the NHS and COVID then you are way more likely to be doing that if you are obese.

That's the thing, people go on about the strain on the NHS but if you mention obesity it's "but that isn't contagious". No, it isn't but if you are obese and catch something that is (not just COVID) then you are much more likely to be hospitalised / seriously ill from it compared to somebody who isn't obese.

 

[CCFCSteve]

OK, so what about Obese people? At what point do they get refused treatment and categorised for clogging up the NHS because they chose to keep eating and choosing not to exercise etc.

There's an obsession with "clogging up beds" but how many are obese and how much could be prevented if they weren't?

Will that really get mentioned much?

Where does it end?

Id have no issue with an old lady who fell down the stairs being treated ahead of me if I’d got pissed up on a night out and caused myself some mischief.

I know the argument about obese people and understand some of the points you make but the fact is it takes literally a few minutes to get a jab to significant reduce the chance of ending up hospital/ICU. People not bothering/refusing can’t be given priority over those that have had the jab for themselves and/or the greater good

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

…let’s not forget the attempted ongoing acts of violence and intimidation and talk of hanging doctors and nurses too.

I've had some pretty obnoxious things directed my way mainly not on here for defending the vaccine.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Same here by all accounts Sick Boy (I heard 80-90%+). I think it should be made clear that vaccinated and/or other non Covid patients will have to take priority with ICU beds. It’s each to their own if people want to take the vaccine or not but everyone knows they are at higher risk of severe illness if they don’t, so these people* have got to accept if ICUs are full/filling up they have to wait in line. Sounds brutal but the fairest solution

If they aren’t worried about Covid most/all should be happy to accept this

*unless they cant for medical reasons

Impossible Pandora box to open

 

[skybluetony176]

I didn't say it was contagious. However if it's about clogging up the NHS and COVID then you are way more likely to be doing that if you are obese.

That's the thing, people go on about the strain on the NHS but if you mention obesity it's "but that isn't contagious". No, it isn't but if you are obese and catch something that is (not just COVID) then you are much more likely to be hospitalised / seriously ill from it compared to somebody who isn't obese.

Obesity is a much more complicated than taking scientific advice of Right Said Fred over actual scientists.