USSR invades Ukraine. (17 Viewers)

[Nick]

Take it to a bare knuckle.

 

---

[SBT]

Now they are fighting over Chernobyl with the Russians trying to seize the power plant.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(In all seriousness, I don’t understand what Russia would want with this)

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Don't know how representative it was, but saw a thing on BBC of Russians in Moscow saying how they didn't support the action. Only a handful of people protesting, whether due to fear or people actually support what Putin is doing I don't know.

It feels like this is the start of the point where, despite all the control of the media, Russians have to start looking at the information and thinking this message doesn't add up. If we're doing this because we're afraid of Ukrainian aggression and the West, why have we managed to just waltz into their country?

Thing with dictators is that when they promise stuff they can only pretend for so long that that is the truth. When sanctions etc. hit the image Putin is selling them won't add up. Ultimately the Russian people could play a big part in this. Whether they choose to continue living in fear of the regime and accepting the lies or not.

 

[Liquid Gold]

(In all seriousness, I don’t understand what Russia would want with this)

I think it's just north of Kyiv so on the route down from Belarus and is a fairly big area. Not necessarily fighting over the plant just the plant and exclusion zone being in the way.

 

[David O'Day]

I think it's just north of Kyiv so on the route down from Belarus and is a fairly big area. Not necessarily fighting over the plant just the plant and exclusion zone being in the way.

it's just over the border from belarus

 

[Grendel]

Putin was supportive of UK Brexit and let's hope this division between us and Europe doesn't hamper a coordinated response. NATO needs to take strong action and let's hope Bonking Boris gets his act together as his half hearted threat of economic sanctions was utterly embarrassing. Shameful day.

that’s it Charles it’s all down to brexit

 

[duffer]

that’s it Charles it’s all down to brexit

Not all down to Brexit, but only an idiot could argue that destabilising the EU hasn't been Putin's objective for a long time.

All those 'patriots' doing Russia's bidding, eh.

The Russia Report — who paid for Brexit? | TheArticle

£8.4 million — it was the biggest ever political donation in British history, and made by an insurance salesman made ...

www.thearticle.com

And all that Russian money flowing into the Tory party too. Awkward.

 

[Grendel]

On the contrary, I think they care very much, and Putin has spent years preparing their economy for this precise eventuality. They've built up huge reserves to try and operate an economy that has been trying to westernize for decades, but could soon be largely cut off from the west. It's a bold experiment, but one that is likely to fail.

The "underwhelming" reaction (as @Grendel put it) on the Russian markets (I'm talking currency, equity and bond markets) has been devastating, and that's in the space of a few hours. The ruble is at a record low, shares have collapsed, and Russian access to dollars is only going to get harder as new sanctions come in. This is going to result in massive hardship for ordinary Russian people over the next few months, as well as massive inconvenience, financial losses and status shocks for Russian oligarchs. Putin doesn't have to listen to any of them, but he does have to hope he can wrap up his military conquests before they start making him seriously question his own job security. He wouldn't be the first Russian leader to be taken out by his own elites, and Putin knows his history.

I never mentioned the Russian markets - Putin doesn’t care about his own markets he doesn’t care about the welfare of his own people who doesn’t care about anything but his moment in history

 

[Grendel]

Not all down to Brexit, but only an idiot could argue that destabilising the EU hasn't been Putin's objective for a long time.

All those 'patriots' doing Russia's bidding, eh.

The Russia Report — who paid for Brexit? | TheArticle

£8.4 million — it was the biggest ever political donation in British history, and made by an insurance salesman made ...

www.thearticle.com

And all that Russian money flowing into the Tory party too. Awkward.

What was the reason for 2014 then and also 2008? How did that happen with a United EU?

there isn’t an EU army there is a thing called nato

Also of course as Mr Corbyn has re-emphasised this is nato aggression not Russian so that was the political alternative you had at the last election - somewhat more destabilising methinks

 

[Grendel]

Putin is pretty much using Dugin's Foundations of Geopolitics as a checklist. Separating the UK from Europe was just one item on the list to check off as is annexing Ukraine.

Nonsense

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

that’s it Charles it’s all down to brexit

Ah! The Putin apologist returns!

Something you once again got wrong.

Bit like chap, constantly getting things wrong.



In fact, are we absolutely sure Grendel isn't Farage? Maybe that picture in his avatar is hiding in plain sight...?

 

[CCFCSteve]

This is an interesting article. Not necessarily the approval rating stuff but Russians views on Ukraine and the war further down.

Putin’s public approval is soaring during the Russia-Ukraine crisis, but it’s unlikely to last

Approximately 69% of Russians approve of President Vladimir Putin. But a costly war is likely to chip away at his popularity, history and data tell us.

theconversation.com

 

[Grendel]

What are you on about. Corbyn isn't, and never has been, PM or Foreign Secretary. What he does or doesn't want to do makes absolutely no difference to anything.

The point is you criticise the brexit decision and it’s gross hypocrisy if anyone voted labour as they voted for a foreign policy that was disarmament and pulling away from NATO

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Along those lines, with the line of EU/NATO expansion to the East (all of which was desired and requested by the sovereign nations involved having lived under Soviet tyranny for so long) why are we not talking about Russian communist expansion to the East?

 

[Grendel]

Ah! The Putin apologist returns!

Something you once again got wrong.

Bit like chap, constantly getting things wrong.



In fact, are we absolutely sure Grendel isn't Farage? Maybe that picture in his avatar is hiding in plain sight...?

What are you on about?

 

[SBT]

I never mentioned the Russian markets - Putin doesn’t care about his own markets he doesn’t care about the welfare of his own people who doesn’t care about anything but his moment in history

Which markets were you originally referring to then? The reaction worldwide has been pretty stark. I get the feeling your only market expertise is at Wellesbourne.

 

[Frostie]

Looks like we finally mean business....

 

[tisza]

This is an interesting article. Not necessarily the approval rating stuff but Russians views on Ukraine and the war further down.

Putin’s public approval is soaring during the Russia-Ukraine crisis, but it’s unlikely to last

Approximately 69% of Russians approve of President Vladimir Putin. But a costly war is likely to chip away at his popularity, history and data tell us.

theconversation.com

Falklands effect. Nationalism (patriotism rather than any far right ideology) is a very powerful factor in most East European countries. Most independent media had been closed in Russia so media very much Govt controlled.

 

[Grendel]

Which markets were you originally referring to then? The reaction worldwide has been pretty stark. I get the feeling your only market expertise is at Wellesbourne.

I’m referring to the international markets which have hardly been devastated have they. Putin could not care less about his own currency - the Russian people are used to poverty and destitution - look at what happened in the early 90’s and yet they still remained loyal to the leadership

 

[tisza]

How this thread becomes a rerun of Brexit is most strange? One UK remains a major factor in NATO. Two don't think Putin would have had 2nd thoughts if UK was still part of EU

 

[Grendel]

How this thread becomes a rerun of Brexit is most strange? One UK remains a major factor in NATO. Two don't think Putin would have had 2nd thoughts if UK was still part of EU

it’s embarrassing I think some think we have an eU army

 

[duffer]

What was the reason for 2014 then and also 2008? How did that happen with a United EU?

there isn’t an EU army there is a thing called nato

Also of course as Mr Corbyn has re-emphasised this is nato aggression not Russian so that was the political alternative you had at the last election - somewhat more destabilising methinks

Get over yourself mate, even Corbyn has said this is wrong, stop trying to deflect from the utter and well documented corruption of the people actually in charge now.

Who was in charge in this country in 2014, when Crimea was annexed?

I'll answer for you, Tories.

What did they do?

Fuck all.

Ukraine crisis: UK warns Russia over Crimean incursion

Russia will face diplomatic, political and economic pressures over its actions in the Ukraine, David Cameron says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Patriots my fucking arse, you can bang on about Corbyn all day long but the Tory party are as bent as a nine-bob note, especially when it comes to Russian 'donations'.

That weakness and corruption is still at the heart of this Government, stop hiding behind "but Corbyn".

 

[duffer]

it’s embarrassing I think some think we have an eU army

Who said that, ever? I think you're embarrassing yourself mate.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Falklands effect. Nationalism (patriotism rather than any far right ideology) is a very powerful factor in most East European countries. Most independent media had been closed in Russia so media very much Govt controlled.

Yeah, sorry I probably wasn’t very clear. What interested me was 50% didn’t appear to want/support war. They’re all not just blindly following him, which I’m grasping onto as a positive…..

Most Russians don’t want war

About 38% of Russians did not consider war with Ukraine a real possibility as of December 2021, according to Levada Center polling. Another 15% completely ruled out the possibility of armed conflict.

Approximately 83% of Russians report positive views on Ukrainians. And 51% of Russians say that Russia and Ukraine should be independent, yet friendly, countries.

 

[clint van damme]

How this thread becomes a rerun of Brexit is most strange? One UK remains a major factor in NATO. Two don't think Putin would have had 2nd thoughts if UK was still part of EU

I don't think this has got anything to do with Brexit, but two of Putins biggest cheer leaders in this country were also two of Brexits biggest, Farage and Galloway.

 

[Grendel]

Get over yourself mate, even Corbyn has said this is wrong, stop trying to deflect from the utter and well documented corruption of the people actually in charge now.

Who was in charge in this country in 2014, when Crimea was annexed?

I'll answer for you, Tories.

What did they do?

Fuck all.

Ukraine crisis: UK warns Russia over Crimean incursion

Russia will face diplomatic, political and economic pressures over its actions in the Ukraine, David Cameron says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Patriots my fucking arse, you can bang on about Corbyn all day long but the Tory party are as bent as a nine-bob note, especially when it comes to Russian 'donations'.

That weakness and corruption is still at the heart of this Government, stop hiding behind "but Corbyn".

oh dear you seem embarrassed for voting for Red Jezza

Jeremy Corbyn backs criticism of Britain for 'provocative' role in Russia-Ukraine crisis

The former Labour leader also called on the Government to oppose any further expansion of Nato eastwards

www.telegraph.co.uk

Still his friends at Hamas seem most on his mind at the minute

 

[Ccfcisparks]

oh dear you seem embarrassed for voting for Red Jezza

Jeremy Corbyn backs criticism of Britain for 'provocative' role in Russia-Ukraine crisis

The former Labour leader also called on the Government to oppose any further expansion of Nato eastwards

www.telegraph.co.uk

Still his friends at Hamas seem most on his mind at the minute

I mean, surely a scheduled Debate on Palestine is an appropriate time to discuss Palestine?

 

[Grendel]

I don't think this has got anything to do with Brexit, but two of Putins biggest cheer leaders in this country were also two of Brexits biggest, Farage and Galloway.

That’s because oddly on Russian policy they have an identical view on Russia ti the last labour leader which many here wanted in power so the moral indignation is very hard to stomach

 

[duffer]

How this thread becomes a rerun of Brexit is most strange? One UK remains a major factor in NATO. Two don't think Putin would have had 2nd thoughts if UK was still part of EU

It's not all about Brexit, but weakening the relationship with a major contributor to NATO, the UK, and the rest of its European neighbours obviously was a strategic aim for Russia. What may have surprised Putin is how strong the bonds still are.

Putin would definitely have had second thoughts if the reaction to the Crimean annexation had been firmer - that's not just on the UK, but we hardly covered ourselves in glory.

 

[SBT]

I’m referring to the international markets which have hardly been devastated have they. Putin could not care less about his own currency - the Russian people are used to poverty and destitution - look at what happened in the early 90’s and yet they still remained loyal to the leadership

Are you sure about that?

French and German stocks down 4%
Major European banks down 10% or more
Sterling with its biggest fall in two years
Major US indices either in correction or bear market territory
Eastern European markets with their worst day in two years
Russian benchmark index down as much as 50%
Gazprom loses a third of its value

But other than that….

Is ‘Putin doesn’t care about the markets’ going to be your new ‘People don’t care about Downing St parties’?

 

[Grendel]

It's not all about Brexit, but weakening the relationship with a major contributor to NATO, the UK, and the rest of its European neighbours obviously was a strategic aim for Russia. What may have surprised Putin is how strong the bonds still are.

Putin would definitely have had second thoughts if the reaction to the Crimean annexation had been firmer - that's not just on the UK, but we hardly covered ourselves in glory.

Did you not vote labour at the last election?

 

[clint van damme]

That’s because oddly on Russian policy they have an identical view on Russia ti the last labour leader which many here wanted in power so the moral indignation is very hard to stomach

The obsession with Corbyn on here is hilarious.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Grendel won't be happy.

His idol Boris has just announced further sanctions.

 

[Grendel]

Are you sure about that?

French and German stocks down 4%
Major European banks down 10% or more
Sterling with its biggest fall in two years
Major US indices either in correction or bear market territory
Eastern European markets with their worst day in two years
Russian benchmark index down as much as 50%
Gazprom loses a third of its value

But other than that….

Is ‘Putin doesn’t care about the markets’ going to be your new ‘People don’t care about Downing St parties’?

Lol at the point of Covid stocks in major markets went down to record levels not seen since 1987 - I lost £100 grand in a few days - it recovered this is literally not worth even checking

I guess the pension at McDonald’s wasn’t impacted to be fair so you’ll be ok

as for don’t care about parties they don’t now and wartime PMs tend to do rather well in the short term as the country unites by its war PM (not Churchill so don’t bother)

 

[CCFCSteve]

Grendel won't be happy.

His idol Boris has just announced further sanctions.

Sounds a lot more comprehensive and also joined up with US and EU.

Good speech to be fair. Hopefully the detail behind it is as comprehensive as it sounded