Evil Fuckers (10 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Sad that this thread has been derailed, but the problem with the death penalty really is that the only thing going for it is satisfying blood lust. Doesn’t prevent crime, doesn’t save money, can end up killing innocent people.

Its hardly been derailed

The brutal truth if we are being honest is both Mary Bell and Robert Thompson had rather depraved and miserable lives and in the end their lives were actually enhanced by the spending of money to rehabilitate after a heinous crime. Good in one way you may say or you could say their abhorrent acts - especially Thompson - means it was worth it as they were rewarded

This particular character seems to have zero morality and is very much akin to the behaviour traits of the likes of Jeffrey Dhamer - animal torture being a classic trait. Would you honestly ever want him released and living on your street on some vague assertion by a parole board and evaluation team that he’s been rehabilitated? The same people perhaps who decided Mr Pitchfork and Mr Venables back into society

So you then have incarceration for the remainder of his life. That could be say 70 years or more. They could get ailments and be treated as Mr Brady had. It’s not blood lust it’s the absurdity of caging an animal in a box until they die, never releasing them, in Brady’s case forcing food down him and in Dennis Neilsons case treating him with cancer care a care home person would probably not even get

it makes no sense

 

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[shmmeee]

It would save money.

To keep that 14 year old in for life it could be in the millions.

Median cost of a death penalty case in the US is $1.2m. You could keep someone in prison for almost 30 years for that.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well another charming incident - possibly the worst yet - another failure of the social services system - and this delightful trio will possibly one day experience freedom again no doubt in the teenage nut jobs case with a new identity at tax payer expense

Logan Mwangi murder: Mum, stepdad and teen sentenced - BBC News

A judge says the attack on the "defenceless" Logan Mwangi was "nothing short of horrifying".

www.bbc.co.uk

You think we should execute a 14 year old ok then

 

[Grendel]

Median cost of a death penalty case in the US is $1.2m. You could keep someone in prison for almost 30 years for that.

Why we compare the us I have no idea

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It would save money.

To keep that 14 year old in for life it could be in the millions.

When did we last execute a child?

 

[SBT]

so that’s the issue you have with the death penalty?

One of many!

Sad that this thread has been derailed, but the problem with the death penalty really is that the only thing going for it is satisfying blood lust. Doesn’t prevent crime, doesn’t save money, can end up killing innocent people.

I don’t think the thread’s been derailed at all - it’s a good discussion, not to mention one that certain posters are routinely desperate to dredge up!

I don’t think this is about blood lust though - more than anything I think it’s a form of virtue signalling. When the crimes are so horrendous and repulsive as the one we’re talking about, I think it’s almost impossible to conceive of any response that would be appropriate. But we have to show the rest of society that we’re not like these other people somehow, so we may as well demand that monstrous people face the same monstrous consequences. To talk about showing mercy to someone like this, even giving them a second chance in life, sounds crazy on the face of it. And yet here we are.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why we compare the us I have no idea

Syria or China are better comparisons, sure.

 

[Grendel]

Syria or China are better comparisons, sure.

Japan?

 

[shmmeee]

Japan?

OK, we won’t use the $1.2m figure from the states, we’ll use the $2.4m figure from Japan.

 

[Grendel]

OK, we won’t use the $1.2m figure from the states, we’ll use the $2.4m figure from Japan.

NW was talking about the morality side. Cost actually is irrelevant - what issue do you have with the Japan methodology of determining death and in this instance on cost benefit analysis you lose anyway.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Japan?

Based on confessions where no lawyers are present and there's suspicion are extracted from people, you mean, with no recordings of said confessions? The Japan where a number stay on death row for over a decade (yes, cost)? The Japan where there's limited opportunity for a re-trial? The Japan where Amnesty International say " many of those facing the death penalty are innocent"?

Still, they never got round to executing this chap, I suppose.

Iwao Hakamada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SBT]

Cost actually is irrelevant

It was one of your main arguments in this thread not even a year ago

All this nonsense about sterilising - he’s hardly seeing the light of day again - just save tax payer money and pass a law that allows a judge to pass the death penalty without any right to appeal the sentence only the crime

 

[Grendel]

Based on confessions where no lawyers are present and there's suspicion are extracted from people, you mean? The Japan where a number stay on death row for over a decade? The Japan where there's limited opportunity for a re-trial? The Japan where Amnesty International say " many of those facing the death penalty are innocent"?

Still, they never got round to executing this chap, I suppose.

Iwao Hakamada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are always going to find anomalies but I’m sorry one thing I don’t believe is you’d ever want this individual ever being your next door neighbour and as that’s a one in a million chance it’s easy to say it’s someone else’s issue

Shut him in a cage for 70 years - is that humane?

 

[Grendel]

It was one of your main arguments in this thread not even a year ago

well in this case it is cheaper isn’t it?

the cost issue is also spurious as it doesn’t include the health care afforded to the likes of the charming Mr Neilson

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You are always going to find anomalies but I’m sorry one thing I don’t believe is you’d ever want this individual ever being your next door neighbour and as that’s a one in a million chance it’s easy to say it’s someone else’s issue

Shut him in a cage for 70 years - is that humane?

You’re almost psychotic when it comes to this stuff

 

[SBT]

well in this case it is cheaper isn’t it?

the cost issue is also spurious as it doesn’t include the health care afforded to the likes of the charming Mr Neilson

Who cares? It’s irrelevant apparently.

 

[Grendel]

You’re almost psychotic when it comes to this stuff

I think it’s psychotic to defend and allow individuals freedoms when denying others - Eric smith has a life now his 4 year old victim he brutally murdered hasn’t. I don’t see how it’s revenge

Many not caught at a young age who killed family members ended up committing multiple murders - Edmund Kemper I believe is an example of this

 

[Grendel]

Who cares? It’s irrelevant apparently.

not as irrelevant as the Birmingham 6 - you’d im sure find a post I made about them once if you look hard enough

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think it’s psychotic to defend and allow individuals freedoms when denying others - Eric smith has a life now his 4 year old victim he brutally murdered hasn’t. I don’t see how it’s revenge

Many not caught at a young age who killed family members ended up committing multiple murders - Edmund Kemper I believe is an example of this

Did you misspeak at the top?
Did you mean who’ve rather than when

As a state we can do what the individual has done to someone for which they are punished.Or we can do better than they did.

We are caught between two ways of thinking

Uncivilised eye for an eye or worse
Civilised believing that people can change and are worthy of making amends for their actions in all but the worst crimes

The lad is 14 and has been brought up by liars and in a dehumanising environment.

I don’t know which system works in terms of a successful society I genuinely don’t

I felt the real dad spoke well and was overwhelming sad he couldn’t protect his lad

And I’m sorry g that was low about being psychotic.

In my voluntary work in prison I see many people who have a lot to offer society but no work goes on to train them to think for themselves and because of the nature of their crimes the odds are so stacked against them with work and independence

 

[dutchman]

It would save money.

To keep that 14 year old in for life it could be in the millions.

He won't be kept in for life though. He'll be free in five years time, given a new identity and the media banned from revealing who he is.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

He won't be kept in for life though. He'll be free in five years time, given a new identity and the media banned from revealing who he is.

Rightly? In your opinion? Depends what he does I suppose

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We haven’t executed someone as young as 14 since the mid 19th century. Why is that?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We haven’t executed someone as young as 14 since the mid 19th century. Why is that?

We’re soft and let criminals get away with it? They’ll be people genuinely who think that’s a bad thing

 

[Otis]

It's the 21st century. The death penalty should never, ever be brought back.

 

[SBAndy]

It's the 21st century. The death penalty should never, ever be brought back.

I think it should, but it should only be used for the worst crimes like swearing and blasphemy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We’re soft and let criminals get away with it? They’ll be people genuinely who think that’s a bad thing

Even the Victorians came to stop executing people as young as that, not through law mind you. What a message to send to the world-we’re back to executing children

 

[dutchman]

Rightly? In your opinion?

There's no way of knowing. He could be a totally reformed character in five year's time or made worse by his experiences between now and then.

At some point in the future he could be living next door to a family with a small child and they would have no idea who he was unless something terrible happened.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

There's no way of knowing. He could be a totally reformed character in five year's time or made worse by his experiences between now and then.

At some point in the future he could be living next door to a family with a small child and they would have no idea who he was unless something terrible happened.

Very true

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think it should, but it should only be used for the worst crimes like swearing and blasphemy.

You are Neil Gorsuch and I claim my $5.

 

[The Great Eastern]

When did we last execute a child?

According to wikipedia, Alice Glaston was hanged at the age of 11 in Much Wenlock in 1546. Doesnt say what she did but it was speculated that it was for murder or witchcraft.
Youngest boy to be executed was John Dean in 1629 who was either 8 or 9 and was given the death sentence for arson. He committed the crime, was caught, tried and had his sentence decided, all in the same day... Executed soon after.

 

[Macca]

Life sentence to match the one he handed out. Execution feels entirely wrong

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Life sentence to match the one he handed out. Execution feels entirely wrong

We know life means probably 10 or so years for the 14 year old though that doesn’t seem enough, even for a woolly liberal like me

 

[Nick]

We know life means probably 10 or so years for the 14 year old though that doesn’t seem enough, even for a woolly liberal like me

Out at 24...

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Mother and her bodybuilder partner are both jailed for 39 years for murder of her 15-year-old son | Daily Mail Online

Another awful one, the little video clip is sad to see, can't imagine how the police and jurors etc got through seeing all the videos.

 

[rob9872]

Horrible story .... but posted by the best username on this site. Makes me giggle like the immature schoolboy I am every time.