Israel - Palestinian Conflict (34 Viewers)

[fatso]

Yes, yes you are.

By your own words you said that the argument that the response is not proportional doesn't stand up ergo you are saying the response was proportional and thus justified.

Your words

"There's an argument that the response was not proportionate, or lead to more suffering of innocent people, but that argument doesn't stand up well when you consider Hamas have fired 150 missiles into Israel in the last 24 hrs."

As I've said, what do you expect /want Israel to do when they are still under attack?

Of course they are going to fire back.
My guess is that won't stop until the incoming rockets stop.

Yes it's a fucking shit show, but that's where we are at.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I'm not, it's a shit show and more innocents will get killed. I categorically do not want to see that.

What I'm explaining is why Israel feels justified in their actions.
That doesn't mean the response is correct or proportional. But I don't see how the UN or anyone else can stop what is happening.

The country founded for people escaping genocide now on the edge of carrying out a genocide of its own not even a century later. There is zero justification.

 

[David O'Day]

There are still rockets being fired by Hamas into Israel.
What (in your opinion) should Israel do? Genuine question.

Not fire into civilian areas and not try to hold 2 million people hostage without food, power or water

They have the ability to be far more surgical in their attacks and they can wage land war without destroying innocent peoples homes

They have a right to defend themselves, they don't have a right to act ;like superpowered terrorists on coke

 

[fatso]

The country founded for people escaping genocide now on the edge of carrying out a genocide of its own not even a century later. There is zero justification.

So what's your solution to a state that's under attack from a terrorist organisation?

Again I'm genuinely interested in your answer, everyone's apauled, but no one has an answer.

 

[Tommo1993]

Israel getting closer and closer to the self destruct button when it comes to future alliance, or have I got the wrong end of the stick? The strong disapproval seems on the rise. The more I read on the news, the more confused I’m getting. But I can’t stop.

 

[David O'Day]

As I've said, what do you expect /want Israel to do when they are still under attack?

Of course they are going to fire back.
My guess is that won't stop until the incoming rockets stop.

Yes it's a fucking shit show, but that's where we are at.

I expect Israel to not target civilians or kids

Is that such a big ask?

 

[fernandopartridge]

So what's your solution to a state that's under attack from a terrorist organisation?

Again I'm genuinely interested in your answer, everyone's apauled, but no one has an answer.

By your stupid logic the UK should have carpet bombed Ireland during the troubles

 

[fatso]

By your stupid logic the UK should have carpet bombed Ireland during the troubles

What's your solution?

 

[fernandopartridge]

What's your solution?

Others on the thread have explained it. Israel has a very advanced military capability, it is able to target Hamas far more discriminately. The reason it isn't doing so is genocide against a Muslim population and / or an opportunist land grab.

 

[fatso]

I expect Israel to not target civilians or kids

Is that such a big ask?

The only way they can do that is to evacuate the local population and launch a land invasion, as Hamas exists in civilian areas, and is highly organised and mobile which is why they are so effective, they are also taking hostages to use as human shields.

Unfortunately I can't see an alternative.
Saying it shouldn't happen is easy, but what's the alternative solution?

 

[clint van damme]

A quick reminder that Hamas have spent 2 years planning this so will have plans to respond to the obvious response.

A terrorist group, who, as you posted yesterday make missile launchers from water pipes they're that primitive, in the most spied upon 25 mile radius in the world planned it for 2 years and the Israelis never got wind of it?

Even you don't believe that.

 

[Otis]

There are still rockets being fired by Hamas into Israel.
What (in your opinion) should Israel do? Genuine question

Hunt down Hamas and target Hamas. Take a much more surgical approach.

Mossad is one of the best and most notorious counter terrorism forces in the world. Israel have a great military force.

Don't just target anyone and everyone in their path. This is going to result in many thousands of innocent deaths in Gaza.

And we both know, this is now only going to stir up more hatred and create more terrorism.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So what's your solution to a state that's under attack from a terrorist organisation?

Again I'm genuinely interested in your answer, everyone's apauled, but no one has an answer.

There need to be talks held over a two state solution where Israel ends its illegal occupation of the West Bank, recognises the Palestinian state, and lifts the Gaza blockade. In exchange Hamas need to hand over their arms stockpile and dissolve the tunnel network.

Something similar to the NI peace process really.

 

[clint van damme]

The only way they can do that is to evacuate the local population and launch a land invasion, as Hamas exists in civilian areas, and is highly organised and mobile which is why they are so effective, they are also taking hostages to use as human shields.

Unfortunately I can't see an alternative.
Saying it shouldn't happen is easy, but what's the alternative solution?

So Hamas cant just walk out with he civilians?

Israel has one of, if not the most advanced security series in the world, yet they don't know where the terrorists are hiding.

And Im no expert, but if you're concerned about the welfare of hostages,probably best not to bomb the shit out of the locations they're likely held in.

 

[fatso]

Others on the thread have explained it. Israel has a very advanced military capability, it is able to target Hamas far more discriminately. The reason it isn't doing so is genocide against a Muslim population and / or an opportunist land grab.

I hear what you say, but the genocide isn't the reason, that would just unite the Muslim world to attack Israel, and lead to massive escalation that Israel wouldn't want.

The land grab is a more likely outcome, moving all Palestinians and therefore Hamas out of rocket range would probably be an acceptable solution to Israel.

(Just for clarity I personally dont support it, but it's a logical outcome. I feel I have to put this as any attempt to explain an unbiased opinion seems to attract claims that I support terrorism, such is the barmy state of affairs)

 

[Ian1779]

What's your solution?

Let’s start with an immediate ceasefire, and get those hostages released.

 

[fatso]

There need to be talks held over a two state solution where Israel ends its illegal occupation of the West Bank, recognises the Palestinian state, and lifts the Gaza blockade. In exchange Hamas need to hand over their arms stockpile and dissolve the tunnel network.

Something similar to the NI peace process really.

Agreed, at last someone with a possible solution!!!

Eventually this will have to happen, but how many will die before the inevitable treaty happens?

And How the fuck we can get these 2 sides round the table is another question.

 

[clint van damme]

Let’s start with an immediate ceasefire, and get those hostages released.

I'm not sure Hamas would do it, they seem to be as up for this shit show as Netanyahu

 

[fatso]

Let’s start with an immediate ceasefire, and get those hostages released.

That's a good start.

We're getting common sense proposals now rather than the mundane outrage and name calling that usually happens on sbt.

 

[fatso]

I'm not sure Hamas would do it, they seem to be as up for this shit show as Netanyahu

Netanyahu has to be replaced, he's as bad as Hamas.
Israel deserves better.

 

[Como]

 

[clint van damme]

Good, take your ball and fuck off, bellend.

 

[Bugsy]

Teacher killed in France school stabbing​

A teacher has been killed and two people have been seriously injured in a knife attack at a school in France, officials say.
Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin said the attack happened at the Gambetta high school in the northern city of Arras.
Local officials say the attacker has been arrested.
The attacker shouted "Allahu Akbar", or "God is greatest", during the attack, police told the AFP news agency.

Diplomat at Israel’s embassy in China ‘stabbed’: witnesses heard screams in Beijing street​

A diplomat at Israel’s embassy in China has been injured in an apparent stabbing in Beijing.
The Israeli foreign ministry confirmed that the man had been attacked in the street and was now in a stable condition in hospital.

 

[David O'Day]

I thought football should stick to football, that's what they said before when footballers tried to take a stand

 

[clint van damme]

Teacher killed in France school stabbing​

A teacher has been killed and two people have been seriously injured in a knife attack at a school in France, officials say.
Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin said the attack happened at the Gambetta high school in the northern city of Arras.
Local officials say the attacker has been arrested.
The attacker shouted "Allahu Akbar", or "God is greatest", during the attack, police told the AFP news agency.

Diplomat at Israel’s embassy in China ‘stabbed’: witnesses heard screams in Beijing street​

A diplomat at Israel’s embassy in China has been injured in an apparent stabbing in Beijing.
The Israeli foreign ministry confirmed that the man had been attacked in the street and was now in a stable condition in hospital.

France, no surprise, but China?

 

[Otis]

That's a good start.

We're getting common sense proposals now rather than the mundane outrage and name calling that usually happens on sbt.

I would say that it's been pretty much universal rational responses to be honest.

I really think this is going to stir up a hornets nest here. I can see a massive increase in terrorist attacks and anyone who has supported Israel over this is going to be in their path

Hamas are undoubtedly not to be trusted, but this response by Israel is way, way out of context and I really don't see how anyone can support this level of offensive.

If this so called evacuation takes place, as has already been said, won't Hamas fighters just "escape" with normal civilians?

So many innocents are suffering here and there will be so many thousand deaths as a result

What we are going to be left with, will be a much worse situation than we already have now.

Everyone now is seemingly pleading with Israel to show some restraint and that is exactly what they should do.

It needs negotiation, but this shit show has to stop first.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No I'm not, it's a shit show and more innocents will get killed. I categorically do not want to see that.

What I'm explaining is why Israel feels justified in their actions.
That doesn't mean the response is correct or proportional. But I don't see how the UN or anyone else can stop what is happening.

Exactly

 

[David O'Day]

Surely people can see that indiscriminately attacking civilians just entrenches feelings on both sides. I think hamas is ok with their own civilians dying as it will just breed even more people for their next generation of terrorists.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Israel responded to the attack on the music festival which was the action that started this latest round of military action.

As I've said, I'm not saying the action was proportional, but apart from most people agreeing that it's another humanitarian shit show, I've yet to hear of a workable solution that leads to a ceasefire/ lasting peace.

There isn’t one currently
We would be good to admit and accept that
We shouldn’t be goading them on and cheering their actions but we can’t stop them

 

[David O'Day]

There isn’t one currently
We would be good to admit and accept that
We shouldn’t be goading them on and cheering their actions but we can’t stop them

We can stop them, international pressure will lead to a ceasefire and then an international force to maintain order and funding to help the non terrorist palestinian authorities such as Fatah build infrastructure with a view to implementing a 2 state solution

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Agreed, at last someone with a possible solution!!!

Eventually this will have to happen, but how many will die before the inevitable treaty happens?

And How the fuck we can get these 2 sides round the table is another question.

What I’m proposing will be a lot less likely to make happen if Israel go in and commit a mass slaughter in under 24 hours. The US need to put pressure on Israel to come to the table, whoever’s backing Hamas to do the same from their side.

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

Sadly, both sides have never wanted to get round the table and not sure they ever will in my lifetime, this is deep rooted for years and views so entrenched at polar ends.
If Israel invade now as suggested when they migrate over 1m people just to destroy the tunnels and to break Hamas locally there then it only creates the greater martyrdom in every other country where Palestinian’s live and also their supporters and the isolated incidents starting now will escalate more.

don’t have the solution but invading is definitely not the right one now, someone from the superpower countries or UN has to get the leaders seeing sense or talking

 

[fatso]

What I’m proposing will be a lot less likely to make happen if Israel go in and commit a mass slaughter in under 24 hours. The US need to put pressure on Israel to come to the table, whoever’s backing Hamas to do the same from their side.

Interestingly it appears that Israel has held off ( so far) from launching the all out land assault that was thought to be imminent.

So maybe international pressure is making them rethink.

Also the USA has sent a carrier task force to the area, that maybe to assure Israel that Iran won't enter the equation (I'm guessing here) but this may (?) De-escalate things.

Be interesting to see if things scale back a bit now.

 

[Nick]

Just seen a video from Ireland with people with flags in a supermarket demanding a boycott of things.

Then chanting "we are all palistinions" even forcing their kids to.

It's cult like.

Edit: think it's an old video.

 

[Ian1779]