Israel - Palestinian Conflict (44 Viewers)

[duffer]

Evidence they don't , go ask all 7000 , 1 in 217 who has viewed this thread has admitted to it , the odds are against you

That's how it works , a big sample size too

I work in data modelling for a living mate, have done for a long time, I don't think you've quite understood how that works. Have you taken a sample of the non responders here to determine whether there's any difference in their opinion.

Maybe it's not 1 in 217, maybe it's 1 in 7000. How do you know?

 

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[Evo1883]

I work in data modelling for a living mate, have done for a long time, I don't think you've quite understood how that works. Have you taken a sample of the non responders here to determine whether there's any difference in their opinion.

Maybe it's not 1 in 217, maybe it's 1 in 7000. How do you know?

Isn't that the same with literally anything ?

With any poll given for example , how do you know the next 200 won't say different ?

But you're right you work in data , does the data say they definitely won't back hamas ?

What's the answer ? That also answers the point I'm making

Cheers

Where do we go from here duffer and do I look daft now we've established there could be people on here that want hamas to beat Israel in conflict

 

[duffer]

Isn't that the same with literally anything ?

With any poll given for example , how do you know the next 200 won't say different ?

But you're right you work in data , does the data say they definitely won't back hamas ?

What's the answer ? That also answers the point I'm making

Cheers

I'm not making the claim, mate, you are. I can see no evidence that there are non-posters on the forum supporting Hamas, and you obviously can't provide any.

So given that most people would probably be offended at being thought of as supporting Hamas, and I've got no evidence beyond HH that anyone does, I wouldn't haved piled in like you have done.

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but it is just your opinion and not based on fact. Sorry if that's too many words.

 

[Evo1883]

I'm not making the claim, mate, you are. I can see no evidence that there are non-posters on the forum supporting Hamas, and you obviously can't provide any.

So given that most people would probably be offended at being thought of as supporting Hamas, and I've got no evidence beyond HH that anyone does, I wouldn't haved piled in like you have done.

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but it is just your opinion and not based on fact. Sorry if that's too many words.

I've always knew it was opinion .. I gave it and was piled on anyway .. away from the initial point which was moved past as i admitted the wording was shit .. I'm still having to explain myself for suggesting there is going to be people on here that want hamas to beat Israel in conflict, the fact several posters say thats not them doesn't alter the opinion one bit , neither does it disprove my opinion one bit , we've already 1 poster openly say it ..you know yourself some people hate Israel that much

You can't say there are no people on here either that wouldnt back hamas v Israel, you simply can't


So when you say I've said something daft , and I'm pushing you hard on what it is exactly that I've said daft , it's because I'm still yet to hear it ?


Mocking my intelligence isn't winning any arguments is it , so again duffer


What's been said that's daft ??????

 

[Evo1883]

Is it possible there are people on this forum that would want hamas to beat Israel in conflict , but won't openly say it

We've already 1 openly say it


Yes or No

Then we move on

I know the answer , duffer knows the answer

 

[Evo1883]

I use pictures as the words are too long

 

[Evo1883]

You guys can think I'm a prick, think I'm thick ... no issue with that at all , but if you're going to pile on me , make sure you have it all ready to give because il defend myself and hard ..

 

[Grendel]

One question.

What actual evidence do you have that a single person that you've accused of supporting Hamas in this, of the 7000 posters does so?

There are plenty of posters who consider Israel on par with Hamas and therefore a rogue terrorist state and clearly more sympathetic with Palestine

Also comments like “usually a good poster” and “mate” are highly condescending

 

[Evo1883]

There are plenty of posters who consider Israel on par with Hamas and therefore a rogue terrorist state and clearly more sympathetic with Palestine

Also comments like “usually a good poster” and “mate” are highly condescending

When it's followed up by , sorry if that's too many words

 

[duffer]

I've always knew it was opinion .. I gave it and was piled on anyway .. away from the initial point which was moved past as i admitted the wording was shit .. I'm still having to explain myself for suggesting there is going to be people on here that want hamas to beat Israel in conflict, the fact several posters say thats not them doesn't alter the opinion one bit , neither does it disprove my opinion one bit , we've already 1 poster openly say it ..you know yourself some people hate Israel that much

You can't say there are no people on here either that wouldnt back hamas v Israel, you simply can't


So when you say I've said something daft , and I'm pushing you hard on what it is exactly that I've said daft , it's because I'm still yet to hear it ?


Mocking my intelligence isn't winning any arguments is it , so again duffer


What's been said that's daft ??????

I'm not mocking your intelligence, or you. In fact you're the one who's been doing the laughing emojis and that kind of mocking rubbish so let's not get into that, eh. I've done this as politely as I could, you've got upset about being challenged.

We've done it to death mate. You can't understand why I think accusing a bunch of people you've never met of something pretty offensive is wrong and is based on literally no evidence. I'm not sure that your statement is daft, but it certainly isn't fact.

Believe whatever you want, but try to accept that you've got no evidence that it's true.

Maybe there are people hereabouts that hate Israel that much that they think Hamas's acts are acceptable, but given only one person has said it, why would I accuse anyone else here of it. I haven't come across that opinion widely, or indeed at all except for the odd person on TV.

Anyway, we're getting nowhere here mate, apart from maybe winding you up, and that's not something I'm interested in doing.

On this we differ, and clearly substantially so; on plenty of other stuff we probably agree and I usually enjoy reading your posts. I'm happy to leave it at that.

 

[Evo1883]

I'm not mocking your intelligence, or you. In fact you're the one who's been doing the laughing emojis and that kind of mocking rubbish so let's not get into that, eh. I've done this as politely as I could, you've got upset about being challenged.

We've done it to death mate. You can't understand why I think accusing a bunch of people you've never met of something pretty offensive is wrong and is based on literally no evidence. I'm not sure that your statement is daft, but it certainly isn't fact.

Believe whatever you want, but try to accept that you've got no evidence that it's true.

Maybe there are people hereabouts that hate Israel that much that they think Hamas's acts are acceptable, but given only one person has said it, why would I accuse anyone else here of it. I haven't come across that opinion widely, or indeed at all except for the odd person on TV.

Anyway, we're getting nowhere here mate, apart from maybe winding you up, and that's not something I'm interested in doing.

On this we differ, and clearly substantially so; on plenty of other stuff we probably agree and I usually enjoy reading your posts. I'm happy to leave it at that.

Same , glad you replied as I've been

All day

I'm happy to move on , no hard feelings PUSB

 

[Houchens Head]

I blame the Romans.

 

[duffer]

Same , glad you replied as I've been

All day

I'm happy to move on , no hard feelings PUSB

Likewise mate. Apologies if I've pushed your buttons, I've tried not to, but I do go on a bit, accepted.

 

[Como]

I thought this was quite interesting with the calls from The river to the sea, discusses what the US might have done if things had gone badly in 1973. I know there was an energy crisis, petrol prices doubled. I certainly did not know the perception at the time as to what might happen.

Also begs the question if it was known Israel had Nukes back then. They certainly do now.

 

[clint van damme]

As I keep saying, Netanyanhu doesn't want a 2 state solution, he wants to keep stealing Palestinian land and he enables Hamas to help achieve his political aims.
Backed up in this article by the former heads of both the Israeli secret service and the IDF.

 

[David O'Day]

seems como and Kieran may need to apologise

 

[skybluetony176]

As I keep saying, Netanyanhu doesn't want a 2 state solution, he wants to keep stealing Palestinian land and he enables Hamas to help achieve his political aims.
Backed up in this article by the former heads of both the Israeli secret service and the IDF.

I do keep wondering if this is why Egypt won’t open the borders to refugees. If the people of North Gaza leave Gaza altogether it makes life easier for Isreal to occupy the North of Gaza as it will be a ghost town.

 

[skybluetony176]

seems como and Kieran may need to apologise

Said from the start it doesn’t add up. If only because no Hamas rocket has ever caused that scale of damage in Israel. Even if you want to dismiss the Hamas body count the destruction on the ground is far more widespread than the couple of cars at best we see damaged in Israel from Hamas rockets.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I do keep wondering if this is why Egypt won’t open the borders to refugees. If the people of North Gaza leave Gaza altogether it makes life easier for Isreal to occupy the North of Gaza as it will be a ghost town.

It seems like Israel's strategy is clear all Palestinians out of the country. They were hoping all in Gaza would flee to Egypt and similarly those in the West Bank to Jordan.

 

[Como]

CNN Investigates: Forensic analysis of images and videos suggests rocket caused Gaza hospital blast, not Israeli airstrike​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html

This is a not bad passably comprehensive analysis of the "bomb", not that I think it makes much difference. Difficult to rationally dispute a belief system.

 

[clint van damme]

CNN Investigates: Forensic analysis of images and videos suggests rocket caused Gaza hospital blast, not Israeli airstrike​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html

This is a not bad passably comprehensive analysis of the "bomb", not that I think it makes much difference. Difficult to rationally dispute a belief system.

This is not a bad analysis either, but as you say difficult to rationalise with a veliwf system

 

[David O'Day]

CNN Investigates: Forensic analysis of images and videos suggests rocket caused Gaza hospital blast, not Israeli airstrike​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html

This is a not bad passably comprehensive analysis of the "bomb", not that I think it makes much difference. Difficult to rationally dispute a belief system.

that is not bad, it's awful and yes it is difficult to dispute your belief system, I mean look at the headline ffs

you probably should read the links you post as there is just a load of guess work

 

[duffer]

I'm still of the opinion that the hospital thing is a bit of a distraction, and probably one that suits Israel.

Whatever happened at the hospital, in the meantime power and water remains turned off, and food, medical supplies and fuel are being deliberately withheld.

Despite Israel demanding that civilians move to south Gaza, they apparently continue to bomb that supposedly "safe" area.

In very short order, if nothing changes, I expect we'll start to see outbreaks of dysentery and cholera. If not, even simple things like untreated diarrhoea can be lethal to young children without proper medical attention and access to clean water.

It's unconscionably cruel, imho, and Israel simply has to be challenged on it. I'm not disputing their right to defend themselves, but this looks a lot like attempted ethnic cleansing rather than legitimate military action.

 

[tisza]

I do keep wondering if this is why Egypt won’t open the borders to refugees. If the people of North Gaza leave Gaza altogether it makes life easier for Isreal to occupy the North of Gaza as it will be a ghost town.

Egyptians have had their own problems with Hamas and their links with the Muslim brotherhood. Spent many years fighting terrorism in the Sinai already. Also don't want the possibility of Palestianians launching attacks on Israel from Egyptian territory that might threaten the current peace they have with Israel. They don't want large numbers of Palestinians moving into their territory hence why they co-operated with Israel on the Gaza blockades for years. Jordan don't want Palestinian refugees either.

 

[duffer]

Egyptians have had their own problems with Hamas and their links with the Muslim brotherhood. Spent many years fighting terrorism in the Sinai already. Also don't want the possibility of Palestianians launching attacks on Israel from Egyptian territory that might threaten the current peace they have with Israel. They don't want large numbers of Palestinians moving into their territory hence why they co-operated with Israel on the Gaza blockades for years. Jordan don't want Palestinian refugees either.

Plus Israel has history with refusing to let refugees return.

Apparently a fair proportion of the Gaza population has roots that go back to the first time they were moved off their land for Jewish Israeli settlers - hence why some refuse to relocate to south Gaza or indeed anywhere else.

It feels like everything I post is anti-Israel now. I wish it wasn't, I've got no issue with Israelis or Palestinians, but the actions of the Israeli state and the IDF are beyond the pale, imho, and seemingly have been for some time.

And no, this doesn't justify what Hamas have done either....

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Some interesting comments here

Compared to Nazis and Israel shouldn’t exist (which is the Iran stated objective)

Israel

When is something going to be done about this murderous blood-thirsty warmongering nation. They commit war crime after war crime after war crime......and yet "we" do nothing other than arm them to carry on killing babies. Its some kind of fucked up irony that this Jewish nation commits war...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Felt obliged to respond as I started that thread back in 2014.....

...a quick Google shows I started it on a day the Israelis bombed a UN school during a massive over-reactive murderous land incursion..

So whilst I've attempted to learn a great deal more about the situation and atleast dialled down my language and anger since then, both hamas and the Israeli state appear to have learnt nothing and have both ramped up their terrorism.....

PS: approximately 600,000 forcibly displaced and approaching 5000 dead Palestinians in the last fortnight....and thats before they've even started the land offensive grab...

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Felt obliged to respond as I started that thread back in 2014.....

...a quick Google shows I started it on a day the Israelis bombed a UN school during a massive over-reactive murderous land incursion..

So whilst I've attempted to learn a great deal more about the situation and atleast dialled down my language and anger since then, both hamas and the Israeli state appear to have learnt nothing and have both ramped up their terrorism.....

PS: approximately 600,000 forcibly displaced and approaching 5000 dead Palestinians in the last fortnight....and thats before they've even started the land offensive grab...

Story that needs to be told

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Me saying 1 person backs hamas over israel , there will be more , ISNT saying "duffer backs terrorists " FACT.

So what is it that I've said that is incorrect ?

Let's do this

So why not name those you're saying are supporting Hamas but not saying it to remove any potential confusion.

Otherwise what you've said is anyone on here sympathetic to the Palestinians and not wholeheartedly supporting Israel then there's a decent chance they support Hamas and terrorists.

In which case the argument that anyone who is supporting Israel is likely Islamophobic also applies.

Which of course it doesn't. Because it's bollocks.

 

[Evo1883]

So why not name those you're saying are sporing Hamas but not saying it to remove any potential confusion.

Othrwise what you've said is anyone on here is sympathetic to the Palestinians and not wholeheartedly supporting Israel then there's a decent chance they support Hamas and terrorists.

In which case the argument that anyone who is supporting Israel is likely Islamophobic also applies.

Which of course it doesn't. Because it's bollocks.

 

[shmmeee]

Evidence they don't , go ask all 7000 , 1 in 217 who has viewed this thread has admitted to it , the odds are against you

That's how it works , a big sample size too

We’re doing better than the population then. Do you know what the lizard man constant is? Look it up.



As an aside, sample size is irrelevant if it’s not representative

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Is this the debate that will go on for as long as Israel Palestine?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is this the debate that will go on for as long as Israel Palestine?

Yep

 

[Evo1883]

We’re doing better than the population then. Do you know what the lizard man constant is? Look it up.



As an aside, sample size is irrelevant if it’s not representative

I could argue with you , however you've waited a couple days and for me to agree to move on to reply .. I've moved on and won't be engaging after this

I think that's reasonable for everybody's sanity

That's why I also gave the thumbs up on dreamers reply

 

[shmmeee]

I could argue with you , however you've waited a couple days and for me to agree to move on to reply .. I've moved on and won't be engaging after this

I think that's reasonable for everybody's sanity

That's why I also gave the thumbs up on dreamers reply

Wasn’t starting an argument. Just throwing some facts out there for you.

 

[Evo1883]

Wasn’t starting an argument. Just throwing some facts out there for you.