Do you want to discuss boring politics? (42 Viewers)

[PVA]

He had better get a move on then. One of the things about getting older is that time passes by so fast. The next 4 years will be gone in a flash. Immigration will not have gone down, no growth, missed housing targets, hugely increased energy bills - and no Tories to blame.

If only people were this willing to hold the government to account for the last 13 years.

 

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[Grendel]

If only people were this willing to hold the government to account for the last 13 years.

Governments are always held to account when there is a general election

 

[fernandopartridge]

All austerity politics is basically doing this to a lesser extent

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They’re mostly pissing off Tory voters at the moment TBF. They’re just not also making their voters happy. Starmer slow boring theory is that after five years people will look up and see immigration down, growth up, etc. There’s not much in terms of public opinion that’s going to sway him from that yet.

He needs to learn from Trump winning that this argument will not win the election even if it’s true.

 

[MalcSB]

Starmer - “we aren’t going to tell people how to live their lives.”

Milliband - oh yes, we are.

Plans to introduce 'boiler tax' for manufacturers slammed

The Energy Secretary has signed off on a proposal to impose swingeing taxes on boiler manufacturers if they fail to meet his targets for installing heat pumps.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Nick]

Starmer - “we aren’t going to tell people how to live their lives.”

Milliband - oh yes, we are.

Plans to introduce 'boiler tax' for manufacturers slammed

The Energy Secretary has signed off on a proposal to impose swingeing taxes on boiler manufacturers if they fail to meet his targets for installing heat pumps.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Madness

 

[MalcSB]

Madness

Left wing middle class elite - “we have failed to win the argument, how can we enforce our unrealistic desires”

”Hit the bastard plebs in the pocket - again and again until they give up”

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Left wing middle class elite - “we have failed to win the argument, how can we enforce our unrealistic desires”

”Hit the bastard plebs in the pocket - again and again until they give up”

To be clear, I’m laughing at this post, not with it

 

[MalcSB]

To be clear, I’m laughing at this post, not with it

You may be laughing now ………………..

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You may be laughing now ………………..

Oh I’m not, this government is doing fuck all for me and my wife.

 

[jordan210]

Asset strippers circling

 

[shmmeee]

Starmer - “we aren’t going to tell people how to live their lives.”

Milliband - oh yes, we are.

Plans to introduce 'boiler tax' for manufacturers slammed

The Energy Secretary has signed off on a proposal to impose swingeing taxes on boiler manufacturers if they fail to meet his targets for installing heat pumps.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Tax is telling people how to live their life now?

 

[shmmeee]

Left wing middle class elite - “we have failed to win the argument, how can we enforce our unrealistic desires”

”Hit the bastard plebs in the pocket - again and again until they give up”

Genuine question from this: do you think climate change is a hoax?

 

[shmmeee]

Sorry “middle class beliefs” has sent me from people who have spent the last week with their tongue up the arse of the landed gentry

 

[MalcSB]

Tax is telling people how to live their life now?

I think it is, yes. If the argument about heat pumps had been won it would be unnecessary.

Taxes can often be a means to direct people to live their lives in a certain way, eg tobacco duty and the £2 to come on a bottle of vape liquid. When I vaped I was buying them from onepoundliquid. Not hard to work out that the price will triple and threepoundliquidbuttwopounisagovernmentripoff isn’t quite as catchy.

They will be taxing meat at some point.

In the meantime, let’s cosy up to climate change drivers China to get trade benefits.

 

[shmmeee]

I think it is, yes. If the argument about heat pumps had been won it would be unnecessary.

Taxes can often be a means to direct people to live their lives in a certain way, eg tobacco duty and the £2 to come on a bottle of vape liquid. When I vaped I was buying them from onepoundliquid. Not hard to work out that the price will triple and threepoundliquidbuttwopounisagovernmentripoff isn’t quite as catchy.

They will be taxing meat at some point.

In the meantime, let’s cosy up to climate change drivers China to get trade benefits.

It’s also a way of capturing externalities.

 

[MalcSB]

Genuine question from this: do you think climate change is a hoax?

I’m not convinced that the UK should be leading the way on this.

Im certainly not convinced that a system requiring taking heat out of cold air is going to prove all that effective, especially when the power cuts start. It is very expensive to run.

And then no one will be able to charge their cars to get to work!

 

[MalcSB]

It’s also a way of capturing externalities.

I have no idea what that means,

 

[shmmeee]

I have no idea what that means,

The costs of something aren’t always captured in its sale price. Some things have external negative impacts (climate change pollution, increased healthcare costs etc) so we tax them to pay for those. Same argument as tax on fags and alcohol cos you have to pay for the NHS.

The argument for a climate tax isn’t nudge theory, it’s that people who emit carbon don’t pay the price to fix that at source.

 

[shmmeee]

I’m not convinced that the UK should be leading the way on this.

Im certainly not convinced that a system requiring taking heat out of cold air is going to prove all that effective, especially when the power cuts start. It is very expensive to run.

And then no one will be able to charge their cars to get to work!

Heat pumps are effective. Our problem IMO is not allowing air con (a two way heat pump) as part of it, I think if we did people would see more benefits. Our other problem is my house for example has less insulation than an instagram model so heat pump just wouldn’t work until that could be fixed. I imagine I’m more common than not in that respect.

The power cuts won’t start, you’ve been reading too much right wing press. We should be building new nuclear though.

Ultimately the energy transition is happening. British homes are uniquely poorly insulated and heated.

 

[Grendel]

Heat pumps are effective. Our problem IMO is not allowing air con (a two way heat pump) as part of it, I think if we did people would see more benefits. Our other problem is my house for example has less insulation than an instagram model so heat pump just wouldn’t work until that could be fixed. I imagine I’m more common than not in that respect.

The power cuts won’t start, you’ve been reading too much right wing press. We should be building new nuclear though.

Ultimately the energy transition is happening. British homes are uniquely poorly insulated and heated.

It appears the peak sales have been reached and targets will be missed in Europe

Market data - European Heat Pump Association

Heat pump sales fell by 47% in the first six months of 2024, compared to […]

www.ehpa.org

 

[Nick]

If somebody wants to come and insulate my home and put the latest tech in to keep me warm / cool for free then I am all for it.

I've been trying for nearly 3 years to get a smart meter so I won't hold much hope!

 

[shmmeee]

If somebody wants to come and insulate my home and put the latest tech in to keep me warm / cool for free then I am all for it.

I've been trying for nearly 3 years to get a smart meter so I won't hold much hope!

No same. And I don’t qualify for shit.
To be clear you aren’t paying this rumoured tax, it’s on boiler companies who fail to sell enough heat pumps.

 

[Marty]

No same. And I don’t qualify for shit.
To be clear you aren’t paying this rumoured tax, it’s on boiler companies who fail to sell enough heat pumps.

As you alluded too, heat pumps do not work for the majority of homes without major re work to the property.

 

[shmmeee]

As you alluded too, heat pumps do not work for the majority of homes without major re work to the property.

Yeah and any targets should take that into account. With respect I’m not sure we’re ever going to see eye to eye on this as you seem to think AA batteries are a woke plot.

 

[Marty]

Yeah and any targets should take that into account. With respect I’m not sure we’re ever going to see eye to eye on this as you seem to think AA batteries are a woke plot.

What the fuck are you going on about?

 

[shmmeee]

What the fuck are you going on about?

Any electrification topic comes up and you pop up moaning about it.

 

[Marty]

Any electrification topic comes up and you pop up moaning about it.

You know what, I can't even be bothered.

 

[chiefdave]

If somebody wants to come and insulate my home and put the latest tech in to keep me warm / cool for free then I am all for it.

I've been trying for nearly 3 years to get a smart meter so I won't hold much hope!

Basic insulation on my house would be thousands, no way I can afford that. Apparently you used to be able to get it paid for with a grant but obviously that's been stopped. Upshot is whatever heating solution I put in my house its going to be massively inefficient if the heat just goes straight out the house.

 

[jordan210]

The pound has been slapped silly today due to the budget worrys and confimed we are heading into rescission territory

 

[MalcSB]

Yeah and any targets should take that into account. With respect I’m not sure we’re ever going to see eye to eye on this as you seem to think AA batteries are a woke plot.

"Should" is such a big but empty word. I far prefer "must".

I didn't realise I could heat my home on a couple of Duracells.

 

[MalcSB]

Basic insulation on my house would be thousands, no way I can afford that. Apparently you used to be able to get it paid for with a grant but obviously that's been stopped. Upshot is whatever heating solution I put in my house its going to be massively inefficient if the heat just goes straight out the house.

Theoretically heat pumps are more efficient than boilers, producing something like 3.5 times as much heat energy as the electrical energy used to do so. Problem is electricity costs 4 times as much as gas (on my tariff) and so the heating is higher cost. So energy efficient but not cost effective.

The heat escaping from your house would escape whatever the heating system, but as heat pumps work on a lot lower temperature heating sources (e.g. radiator temperatures) and the source of heat is less extractable when outside temperatures are low (i.e. just when you need the heating on) it can make the system ineffective if mega insulation isn't installed.

 

[MalcSB]

No same. And I don’t qualify for shit.
To be clear you aren’t paying this rumoured tax, it’s on boiler companies who fail to sell enough heat pumps.

So the consumer want face increased costs?

Just like the working person won't end up paying the increased employer NIC costs through higher consumer prices.

 

[CovValleyBoy]

"We will eliminate the homeless by 2008".
"The green belt is a Labour achievement & we intend to build on it".
Good for a laugh John Prescott , Labour.

 

[MalcSB]

The costs of something aren’t always captured in its sale price. Some things have external negative impacts (climate change pollution, increased healthcare costs etc) so we tax them to pay for those. Same argument as tax on fags and alcohol cos you have to pay for the NHS.

The argument for a climate tax isn’t nudge theory, it’s that people who emit carbon don’t pay the price to fix that at source.

You are right, it isn't nudge theory. It is a full-blown shove in the back.