Quick Hang Grenade for you to catch (19 Viewers)

[valiant15]

Zzzzzzzzzzz.

 

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[BackRoomRummermill]

BRRM you are at minimum 15-18 months behind the curve here .This plan scenario /plan was evident to some of us back then ,Why do you think SOC evolved ,then you contradict yourself by stating "They want the Ricoh not the team",followed by"If they take the Stadium they have to take the team,Prem here we come" followed by "They may concentrate on the Club or sell it ".

What you fail to say is that they could load all their Debt into the stadium ,sell anything of worth before offloading the club and make it pay the kind of rent we pay currently or higher.

I take it 18months ago you knew and according to you the whole forum knew that SISU were not going to pay the rent and we would be in this issue?

Also re read what I wrote, It does not contradict anything . It is an obvious road map of what will happen with a couple of options at various stages.

I am just stating the obvious but this has been played a blinder by SISU

There is no way CCFC will not be playing at the RICOH or be sued or anything else. Given recent form of the club which is the delivery layer of the club when SISU have finally taken the keys or a at least hold the keys to the RICOH then the club may be an attractive buy for a Chinese company or who ever is lurking in the background. I can see the conversation from potential buyers.

You get the stadium and a good team and we will buy you out. They are half way to achieving both

 

[valiant15]

What about if they arent willing to sell? What about if sisu start charging ccfc over the odds in rent?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What about if they arent willing to sell? What about if sisu start charging ccfc over the odds in rent?

If we buy the RICOH, surely it'd be in Coventry City Football Club's name, not SISU ltd. or whatever they are?

 

[valiant15]

They've got that many aliases who knows?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What do they do when they get the Ricoh.

Apparently no one wants to buy it now.

Also can you see them investing the money to get us to the prem.

What do they do if they secure the Ricoh.

How do you make money out of the Ricoh

Everyone on here is in agreement that SISU's #1 priority is profit?

Ok, so far SISU are about 40m whatever in the red, if you disagree on the figure, the point is, they're in the red. They buy the stadium, but according to facts (shared by OSB) we'd still be losing 1-2m a year, so it is clear owning the stadium wouldn't end all our problems, it will only cut losses, but they're still in the red, where can SISU make big £€$¥ everybody? Where's the only place they can turn this investment around from losses, to profit? The prem, you get 40m just in TV money and say if we get promoted via playoffs, 90m in instalments. Guys, of course I could be wrong, but IMO, SISU are 'going for it' as they're cant afford to lose more money, that's why we're going to try and 4/4 in Jan, that's why we've back the 3 managers this year and brought in 16 odd players (too many to keep track of) and we've seemingly already replaced McG with Clarke and he hasn't gone anywhere yet, we've seen a complete turn around in policy because SISU are in last stand and getting desperate.

They only way for SISU to make a return on their investment is to reach the prem.

 

[Moff]

No, I am a Cov fan. I just hate how SISU are walking all over people who we owe millions to, it is shameful and I am embarrased to be a CCFC fan at the moment. I want to see ACL succeed as well as CCFC.

The bigger battle here is who owns the Ricoh. Hopefully The council / ACL will come out and say "we will not reduce the rent while SISU own CCFC, and we will enver sell a share of the ground to CCFC while SISU are in charge." Only then would SISU have to give in, and realise they will never make any money from CCFC, sell up and allow someone else to come in and re-negotiate the terms.

For a start the club owe a million not millions. They are not walking all over people they are trying to negotiate what they percieve to be a fair rent. That is fact.
Some people disagree with that, some like me dont.

Are you so apopletic when any company owes money, did you weep when Woolworths went out of buisness or when Clintons cards went into administration when an American company called in its debt, or are you up in arms when a shop renegotaites its lease in the Precinct to a more managable rent rather than leaving to a cheaper out of town location??? probably not, but it doesnt stop you acting so ingdignantly about this.

Before I get some horsesh*t that i am some sort of SISU apologist, I am not, but as they currently own my club, the one I support and want to succeed then I hope they can come to some sort of compromise with ACL (note I said compromise to pay rent, but a fair rent) so that my club can continue, move forward and hopefully achieve.

Lets hope an agreement can be reached beacuse your point that hopefully SISU will realise they cant make any money from the club and will sell up, is pie in the sky, as unless you know anything otherwise I dont see any interested parties queing at the door to buy the basket case that is Coventry City, or are you still hoping that Hoffman is about to trot round the corner on his white steed :facepalm:

 

[Moff]

What about if they arent willing to sell? What about if sisu start charging ccfc over the odds in rent?

What if they dont?

 

[torchomatic]

Why would they do that?

What about if they arent willing to sell? What about if sisu start charging ccfc over the odds in rent?

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

What about if they arent willing to sell? What about if sisu start charging ccfc over the odds in rent?

They bought the club for a reason which no one here could ever know why, I could speculate but would not want to liable myself or anyone on the Forum

I will say what ever they do they need to make a profit at some stage........... when that is and in whatever form it will happen I am sure. The reason I am saying this is because if they did not believe they could do it then they would have sold the club already and maybe at some stage last year when H****ei were looking at the club it was a low offer.

Every week of every month of every year companies pile money into projects with a view to having a return, this could be anything from spending 20M$ to conduct a siesmic survey of a potential oilfield that could return 50X invetment to a guy that buys an failing house removal company that gives a yeild of 15% . Some fail as we see that COMET went under recently.

The time to realise the return all depends on how patient your investors (shareholders) and financial institution that backed you are, as I am sure every Monday someone at SISU has to give a stste of the nation at CCFC as to what they do next.

It depends on who is putting what into who LOL

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Just also want to add I am neither a SISU Hater or Lover but at least we have a decent team now even without DMG and I am very happy with that

Saturdays are far more interesting now.

 

[blueflint]

Yes they are.

ccfc or sisu are in the wrong get over it

 

[CJparker]

That's the spirit. :thinking about:

Personally, i think you want the club to fold just so you get to tell people who you have never met on a forum "i told you so". If that happens I hope you disappear up your own arse.

The club won't fold Torch, and you know it. I just want to see SISU get a good kick up the backside.

 

[CJparker]

Considering he is supposedly "embarrassed" to support the club at the moment due to their lack of morals. Guardian reader and member of Liberty, no doubt.

Not at all, I read the Daily Telegraph and am in no way obsessed with "corporate ethics" as a general rule. In this case though, SISU's antics have been so hard headed and brazen as to revolt me.

 

[wingy]

I take it 18months ago you knew and according to you the whole forum knew that SISU were not going to pay the rent and we would be in this issue?

Also re read what I wrote, It does not contradict anything . It is an obvious road map of what will happen with a couple of options at various stages.

I am just stating the obvious but this has been played a blinder by SISU

There is no way CCFC will not be playing at the RICOH or be sued or anything else. Given recent form of the club which is the delivery layer of the club when SISU have finally taken the keys or a at least hold the keys to the RICOH then the club may be an attractive buy for a Chinese company or who ever is lurking in the background. I can see the conversation from potential buyers.

You get the stadium and a good team and we will buy you out. They are half way to achieving both

YES OLD CHAP SOME OF US ARE SWITCHED ON ,NOT PLAYING CATCH UP!!:thinking about::facepalm:
09-09-2011 #1
wingy


CCFC Manager
Join Date Jul 2011 Posts 4,793
754 Like Received In 552 Posts

What is the sisu masterplan

What with their reputation for playing hardball, just wondered if they may take us to the precipise,with the intention of putting pressure on all the other stakeholders,ie:-A.C.L,Higgs,Council,with pressure on these coming from other stakeholders,Compass group,sponsors etc,not withstanding the fans,there was a small campaign involving around 80 against the council prior to the takeover. Would the prospect of admin,liquidation,set the alarm bells ringing enough to gain favour with the apparently reluctant parties involved to buckle and recognise that without the club as the fulcrum,the entire complex is kind of useless.In all my readings of this organisation,it seems their standout feature is their brinkmanship.With their 30 million losses to now ,seemingly impossible to recoup,what a gain the stadium would represent if this domsday scenario evolved.Before everyone says what about the football,they know they cant affect much,there is no investment available for that side,i would imagine it would be forthcoming for the real estate.This is about exit strategy
​

 

[CJparker]

For a start the club owe a million not millions. They are not walking all over people they are trying to negotiate what they percieve to be a fair rent. That is fact.
Some people disagree with that, some like me dont.

Are you so apopletic when any company owes money, did you weep when Woolworths went out of buisness or when Clintons cards went into administration when an American company called in its debt, or are you up in arms when a shop renegotaites its lease in the Precinct to a more managable rent rather than leaving to a cheaper out of town location??? probably not, but it doesnt stop you acting so ingdignantly about this.

Before I get some horsesh*t that i am some sort of SISU apologist, I am not, but as they currently own my club, the one I support and want to succeed then I hope they can come to some sort of compromise with ACL (note I said compromise to pay rent, but a fair rent) so that my club can continue, move forward and hopefully achieve.

Lets hope an agreement can be reached beacuse your point that hopefully SISU will realise they cant make any money from the club and will sell up, is pie in the sky, as unless you know anything otherwise I dont see any interested parties queing at the door to buy the basket case that is Coventry City, or are you still hoping that Hoffman is about to trot round the corner on his white steed :facepalm:

I'm fully aware this is Coventry City Moff, why do you think I am posting on here??

In answer to your question, I do get outraged when a company just unilaterally decides not to fulfil it's obligations (be it to partners, tenants, landlords etc). Why shuld I be expected to overlook that in this case, just because it is CCFC. That would make me a hypocrite.

The idea that SISU can't make money from CCFC is "pie in the sky"? Where have you been during the last ten years while debts of millions and millions have been racked up without anything like a profit being approached? Ultimately someone will come in though, depending on the terms they can agree with SISU - look at Pompey.

I also want to see an agreement made, but I won't support SISU in their brazen tactics against a local authority/charity (who have baled us out in the past without being full repaid) when ACL have done nothing wrong. SISU are behaving like a bunch of thugs, not the type of negotiation that I am used to in business.

 

[Macca]

It doesn t look like we have any choice but to swallow the fact that its SISU or nothing for now. I worry a little about what they will do with us in the future once they get there own way about this. Still when you get into bed with these people you take the risk

 

[torchomatic]

Ah, the Daily Telegraph. A Tory then.

Not at all, I read the Daily Telegraph and am in no way obsessed with "corporate ethics" as a general rule. In this case though, SISU's antics have been so hard headed and brazen as to revolt me.

 

[CJparker]

Ah, the Daily Telegraph. A Tory then.

Being as you first abused me for being a Guardian reader and then as a Tory, do you want to throw anything else at me? Far easier to throw insults rather than to debate using FACTS and LOGIC.

If you criticise me first for being left wing and then for being right wing, I haven't got much chance have I?

 

[torchomatic]

You're right, politics doesn't come into it and you shouldn't be criticized for that, so apologies. I can only really criticize you for wanting the team you apparently support being wound up by a joint venture company.

Being as you first abused me for being a Guardian reader and then as a Tory, do you want to throw anything else at me? Far easier to throw insults rather than to debate using FACTS and LOGIC.

If you criticise me first for being left wing and then for being right wing, I haven't got much chance have I?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Being as you first abused me for being a Guardian reader and then as a Tory, do you want to throw anything else at me? Far easier to throw insults rather than to debate using FACTS and LOGIC.

If you criticise me first for being left wing and then for being right wing, I haven't got much chance have I?

So are you a Tory? Would that mean you contradict yourself by arguing for ACL? This isn't a criticism, I'm just asking because I have been accused of contradicting myself by being for a 'proletarian' club over a 'petty bourgeoise' council and private charity.

 

[Macca]

what a load of egocentric waffle this thread is.

 

[CJparker]

You're right, politics doesn't come into it and you shouldn't be criticized for that, so apologies. I can only really criticize you for wanting the team you apparently support being wound up by a joint venture company.

I don't want us wound up...but we all know full well that won't happen anyway. There is a world of difference between the issuing of a winding up petition and that petition actually coming into force - just look at Southend, Sheff Weds, amongst others.

What it would achieve, I hope, is to make SISU sit up and realise they can't push ACL around, stop messing around with the future of our club and play ball. I want this dispute over so we can concentrate on the football. The best way that this can happen is if SISU realise they can't walk all over ACL - ACL need to show some balls to prove they are serious.

 

[CJparker]

So are you a Tory? Would that mean you contradict yourself by arguing for ACL? This isn't a criticism, I'm just asking because I have been accused of contradicting myself by being for a 'proletarian' club over a 'petty bourgeoise' council and private charity.

I'm not a Tory, but even if I was, how does that mean I am contradicting myself? Surely Tories want local authorities and public sector bodies to get the best value for money, rather than giving out public money like confetti...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not going to read the last few pages of waffle here but I do find it odd that ACL are accused of gambling with the club's future when Timmy has done exactly that.

 

[torchomatic]

For Tories "best value for money" equates to slashing services. Closing libraries, youth centres, care homes, nurseries, etc. Then perversely they give tax cuts to the richest people in society and pay for India to play astronauts. Wankers.

I'm not a Tory, but even if I was, how does that mean I am contradicting myself? Surely Tories want local authorities and public sector bodies to get the best value for money, rather than giving out public money like confetti...

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

For Tories "best value for money" equates to slashing services. Closing libraries, youth centres, care homes, nurseries, etc. Then perversely they give tax cuts to the richest people in society and pay for India to play astronauts. Wankers.

Then pay their private sector screw up companies to sort things out and pay more than it had ever cost before! Sisu are a by product of capatilism without proper regulation

 

[Astute]

For Tories "best value for money" equates to slashing services. Closing libraries, youth centres, care homes, nurseries, etc. Then perversely they give tax cuts to the richest people in society and pay for India to play astronauts. Wankers.

But otherwise you love Tories

 

[Grendel]

This is descending into an episode of Citizen Smith.

 

[torchomatic]

Love 'em. Especially Cameron, Osborne and Gove. Great guys.

But otherwise you love Tories

 

[Macca]

Bring back honest Tone

 

[Moff]

The idea that SISU can't make money from CCFC is "pie in the sky"? Where have you been during the last ten years while debts of millions and millions have been racked up without anything like a profit being approached? Ultimately someone will come in though, depending on the terms they can agree with SISU - look at Pompey.

CJ, you misunderstood my pie in the sky comment. I was actually referring to the fact that SISU would just walk off at present as 'pie in the sky' not about money making.

Whilst I dont agree with all your points, as you dont with mine, I do appreciate you took the time to reply.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Love 'em. Especially Cameron, Osborne and Gove. Great guys.

Torchy, it's unfair of you to call Cameron a Tory. That prat is a Liberal Democrat. imp:

 

[dongonzalos]

Everyone on here is in agreement that SISU's #1 priority is profit?

Ok, so far SISU are about 40m whatever in the red, if you disagree on the figure, the point is, they're in the red. They buy the stadium, but according to facts (shared by OSB) we'd still be losing 1-2m a year, so it is clear owning the stadium wouldn't end all our problems, it will only cut losses, but they're still in the red, where can SISU make big £€$¥ everybody? Where's the only place they can turn this investment around from losses, to profit? The prem, you get 40m just in TV money and say if we get promoted via playoffs, 90m in instalments. Guys, of course I could be wrong, but IMO, SISU are 'going for it' as they're cant afford to lose more money, that's why we're going to try and 4/4 in Jan, that's why we've back the 3 managers this year and brought in 16 odd players (too many to keep track of) and we've seemingly already replaced McG with Clarke and he hasn't gone anywhere yet, we've seen a complete turn around in policy because SISU are in last stand and getting desperate.

They only way for SISU to make a return on their investment is to reach the prem.

I agree the prem would be logical.

However it would take huge investment to get us to the prem.

At the moment it seems we can't afford DMC's
Championship wages when he would significantly increase our chances of getting into the championship.

This is without them having the extra costs of buying half the stadium and the costs or losses of running it.

I do think they want the stadium however I am not so sure it is to combine it with premiership football.

To do that I think they are looking at another 40 million.

What do you think the Ricoh is worth without a football club or a football club that pays for itself through limited costs and the product of its academy.

 

[CJparker]

Why does anyone think that SISU want the ground for other purposes? It would presumably cost them as much as it would cost any property developer, so the sell-on value would be minimal. Or have I missed something?