Coventry City boss admits 'errors' after leak of confidential players' documents (24 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

But that's just it - the players were since 1995 or thereabout registered to Holdings according to FL archives, but until 2012 registered in Limited according to clubs accounts. So the indication is that Fisher is cleaning up the administrative mess (while at the same time isolating the lease and get in a position to break it).

Really, I had missed that, when did the Football League state that? Even then surely if that's been done by mistake as soon as the mistake came to light the correct / easiest option would have been to ask the League to change the registrations to Ltd as that's where they should have been. Not to move everything else into holdings. It's a bit like the DVLA getting your address wrong and instead of telling them and asking them to change it you move house!!!

 

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[duffer]

I can't see any grounds for starting the process over.
Nothing that have come to public knowledge show any illegal actions.
But it will be interesting to hear Appeltons final statement.

On the contrary, there appears to be quite a lot of evidence that suggests undervalue or zero value transfers from one company to another, presumably as you've said with the intention of CCFC Ltd being able to break the lease with ACL.

Other than Fisher's assertions (which seem to be steadily unravelling) there's precious little evidence of anything else, at least in the public domain.

I think Appleton may yet find his decisions challenged in court if he doesn't come up with an adequate explanation. I guess we'll see.

 

[shmmeee]

But that's just it - the players were since 1995 or thereabout registered to Holdings according to FL archives, but until 2012 registered in Limited according to clubs accounts. So the indication is that Fisher is cleaning up the administrative mess (while at the same time isolating the lease and get in a position to break it).

The leak is most likely a former director ... Elliott? Hoffman? Clarke? Who knows - and I wish he will keep them coming!

What? Source?

 

[Grendel]

On the contrary, there appears to be quite a lot of evidence that suggests undervalue or zero value transfers from one company to another, presumably as you've said with the intention of CCFC Ltd being able to break the lease with ACL.

Other than Fisher's assertions (which seem to be steadily unravelling) there's precious little evidence of anything else, at least in the public domain.

I think Appleton may yet find his decisions challenged in court if he doesn't come up with an adequate explanation. I guess we'll see.

Lets hope Runaar Norman and Horatio Martinez weren't registered in limited. ACL could find themselves in negative equity.

 

[stupot07]

I'm a bit shocked we only made £225k out of fox's move to Celtic. The figures banded about at the time suggested £1.5m.

 

[longjohnskyblue]

I can't see any grounds for starting the process over.
Nothing that have come to public knowledge show any illegal actions.
But it will be interesting to hear Appeltons final statement.

I was under the impression the registrations were always vie ltd! Have you got proof of what you are saying or are you just trying to fisher yourself? When I saw the press release from the league as I understood it all this about holdings having the registrations is BS!

 

[Godiva]

What? Source?

I did say 'who knows'.

I can't think of anyone else who had access to confidential documents and a desire to give ACL, NOPM, KCIC and what have you ammunition to support the quest to get rid of sisu?
If you can line up more suspects I will be happy to add them to the list.

 

[Godiva]

Really, I had missed that, when did the Football League state that? Even then surely if that's been done by mistake as soon as the mistake came to light the correct / easiest option would have been to ask the League to change the registrations to Ltd as that's where they should have been. Not to move everything else into holdings. It's a bit like the DVLA getting your address wrong and instead of telling them and asking them to change it you move house!!!

Or to ask they changed the registration of the GS to Holdings?
Do we even know if they asked FL how to clear up the mess?

But for the umpteens time ... Breaking the lease was most likely their main priority and I guess they have drawn on their legal expertise to make sure it happened inside the law.

 

[Astute]

But that's just it - the players were since 1995 or thereabout registered to Holdings according to FL archives, but until 2012 registered in Limited according to clubs accounts. So the indication is that Fisher is cleaning up the administrative mess (while at the same time isolating the lease and get in a position to break it/

Or he says was a mess to cover his arse in case the truth came out. Well the truth is out now. Fisher said no players were in CCFC LTD. It is now proved that players were in LTD. Was the decision to put LTD made before the rent wasn't paid? As in the time the players were moved?

If judges can see through SISU when they try a judicial review or even a case that happened at about this time but in another so called investment and the judge said Joy was being very uneconomical with the truth (being more polite than the judge) that she lost, how can anyone say that this evidence won't make any difference? If we can see holes in their defence then what could a judge see with more evidence? We have had only a small fraction.

This could get very messy and very expensive for whoever loses. And to me SISU would be the outsiders to win.

 

[Grendel]

Or he says was a mess to cover his arse in case the truth came out. Well the truth is out now. Fisher said no players were in CCFC LTD. It is now proved that players were in LTD. Was the decision to put LTD made before the rent wasn't paid? As in the time the players were moved?

If judges can see through SISU when they try a judicial review or even a case that happened at about this time but in another so called investment and the judge said Joy was being very uneconomical with the truth (being more polite than the judge) that she lost, how can anyone say that this evidence won't make any difference? If we can see holes in their defence then what could a judge see with more evidence? We have had only a small fraction.

This could get very messy and very expensive for whoever loses. And to me SISU would be the outsiders to win.

Never had you down as an hysterical drama queen - clearly I'm wrong.

 

[Ashdown1]

More utter bullshit and incompetence from twat face Fisher and the Hedge fund but hey ho lets look for someone else to blame. They are a sham, a mess, a fraud and an embarrassment! They should have kept their greedy paws out of football. The football League authorities are not much better either ! There is almost no substance to anything the hedge fund say or any of their proposed plans, just bluster and threat and fudging for more time !

 

[Astute]

I guess they have drawn on their legal expertise to make sure it happened inside the law.

But they have lost the last two court cases we know about. Each time the judge has made comments against Joy and SISU. I bet they win most threats before it reaches court.

CCC will have more money than SISU. They will have all the facts on their side. No wonder Fisher looks as though he is shitting himself.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

so we are to believe that the finance director Mr Brannigan and Mr Ranson didnt have a clue which company they were signing for :thinking about:and that well respected clubs didnt have a clue which company they were dealing with :thinking aboutr solicitors checking the documents were not sure who appointed them :thinking about:.......... all because they didnt have the company number quoted but very specifically stated the company name Coventry City Football Club Limited ................... really?

It does open up many threads of "who gives a shit - just give us your money" type of enquiries doesn't it?

 

[Astute]

clearly I'm wrong.

And everyone will be shocked about this.......won't they?..................

 

[Grendel]

And everyone will be shocked about this.......won't they?..................

Well I won't be wrong - this is a storm in a teacup and nothing will change as a consequence.

 

[luwalla]

im not sure the business was in a mess.. that was his original line of bull but it turns out the lease was in LTD, the players were in LTD, the golden share was in LTD, the corporate was in LTD, LTD was registered as a 'football club' at companies house and it held the turnover for the football club.... errr whats messy about that ...LTD was obviously the club, with all the assets.. until it suited SISU to pretend otherwise.. only a blind & deaf man would not be able to see that now, surely

all that side.. it appears more and more laughable that the "club" were able to go bust, owing people millions of pounds, ripping away the club from its home city.. and then buy the assets of any worth back again themselves, for peanuts, leaving the creditors with nothing.. and excuse it all by saying " oh sorry it was all in a bit of a mess.. "

oh really was it.. never mind then.. have a better try next time .. total piss take!

 

[rondog1973]

True but it became very relevant when TF announced that Ltd was not, as everyone - in particular ACL - has believed, a trading company but was in fact a non-trading property owning subsidiary.

This despite the fact that he himself had signed Ltd's accounts only 9 (?) months previously showing that it was very much a trading company and not noting any change to this fact in the Directors' Report.

I have to say that if a creditor of mine had done the same, my first call would have been to the most aggressive lawyers I could find, with instructions to take action against the company and the Directors.

I have wondered if the reason that ACL rejected the CVA might be to keep the option of such action open. I guess that time will tell.

We live in hope...

 

[sky blue john]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DaleM]

im not sure the business was in a mess.. that was his original line of bull but it turns out the lease was in LTD, the players were in LTD, the golden share was in LTD, the corporate was in LTD, LTD was registered as a 'football club' at companies house and it held the turnover for the football club.... errr whats messy about that ...LTD was obviously the club, with all the assets.. until it suited SISU to pretend otherwise.. only a blind & deaf man would not be able to see that now, surely

all that side.. it appears more and more laughable that the "club" were able to go bust, owing people millions of pounds, ripping away the club from its home city.. and then buy the assets of any worth back again themselves, for peanuts, leaving the creditors with nothing.. and excuse it all by saying " oh sorry it was all in a bit of a mess.. "

oh really was it.. never mind then.. have a better try next time .. total piss take!

Let us hope it's fucking illegal as well and Timmy gets to meet Errol in the showers at Winston Green

 

[CCFCSteve]

im not sure the business was in a mess.. that was his original line of bull but it turns out the lease was in LTD, the players were in LTD, the golden share was in LTD, the corporate was in LTD, LTD was registered as a 'football club' at companies house and it held the turnover for the football club.... errr whats messy about that ...LTD was obviously the club, with all the assets.. until it suited SISU to pretend otherwise.. only a blind & deaf man would not be able to see that now, surely

all that side.. it appears more and more laughable that the "club" were able to go bust, owing people millions of pounds, ripping away the club from its home city.. and then buy the assets of any worth back again themselves, for peanuts, leaving the creditors with nothing.. and excuse it all by saying " oh sorry it was all in a bit of a mess.. "

oh really was it.. never mind then.. have a better try next time .. total piss take!

Agreed. I wonder when the players started being registered in holdings ?!. Once again it just comes across that at some stage assets were being moved out of the entity that had the large unsecured creditor ie acl (moving assets beyond reach of creditors is illegal and for what it's worth the administrator or liquidator can pursue various actions) Doesn't look pretty but doubt anything will happen. The FL haven't got the balls and everything else has been swept under the carpet.

Outrageous but nothing a majority of people didnt know/believe weeks and months ago. It was only the FL and poor old PA that were confused...bless 'em. They are either complicit or completely incompetent ! One of each I reckon !

 

[Astute]

Well I won't be wrong - this is a storm in a teacup and nothing will change as a consequence.

So you know of any other revelations there could be Grenduffy?

Even the blind can see what is going on. I am not saying that the FA will get involved now, but how can they say that they are making sure that the game is clean when there is so much evidence here to the contrary? If they mean what they say they will look into things. They also have much more money than SISU. They can also overrule the FL. It is squeaky arse time for more than SISU.

 

[Tonylinc]

Well I won't be wrong - this is a storm in a teacup and nothing will change as a consequence.

A storm in a tea cup? Really? A Director of a football club tells blatant lies in or order to further his Company's agenda and you call it a storm in a tea cup. Your morality needle needs looking at big time.

 

[Godiva]

im not sure the business was in a mess.. that was his original line of bull but it turns out the lease was in LTD, the players were in LTD, the golden share was in LTD, the corporate was in LTD, LTD was registered as a 'football club' at companies house and it held the turnover for the football club.... errr whats messy about that ...LTD was obviously the club, with all the assets.. until it suited SISU to pretend otherwise.. only a blind & deaf man would not be able to see that now, surely

all that side.. it appears more and more laughable that the "club" were able to go bust, owing people millions of pounds, ripping away the club from its home city.. and then buy the assets of any worth back again themselves, for peanuts, leaving the creditors with nothing.. and excuse it all by saying " oh sorry it was all in a bit of a mess.. "

oh really was it.. never mind then.. have a better try next time .. total piss take!

The 'mess' was explained as I understand it: Over time administrative practice have changed. Before 1995 the players and the Golden Share were all in Holdings. When Limited was formed in 1995 the purpose was to hold players owned by third parties ... like Robbie Keane. When the club was relegated to the Championship the Golden share was given to Limited, but players remained registered to Holdings. Up to 2011/2012 the club kept registering the players in Limited while the FL kept registering the players in Holdings.... or something like that. That is by all accounts a mess.

Having said that ... it suited Fisher to initiate the clean up in a way that isolated the lease. It's certainly not pretty, but as the smoke clears the club is now free of the lease and in a position to either build a new stadium or buy ACL.
Even if sisu walk away selling the club and everything to Hoffman for £1, the club will at some point in the near future own all income streams from the stadium it plays in.

 

[Astute]

Even if sisu walk away selling the club and everything to Hoffman for £1, the club will at some point in the near future own all income streams from the stadium it plays in.

We all know and agree with this.

The thing is that most of us don't trust SISU enough to own the Ricoh. They would own it for them and not our club. ACL will know more than us about what is going on. Otherwise they would have accepted the CVA. Where is the slightest proof that ACL wouldn't sell the Ricoh to a more trusted owner? Hearsay don't count.

 

[sky blue john]

Timothy lied !!!!!
Oh my !!!!

 

[Godiva]

We all know and agree with this.

The thing is that most of us don't trust SISU enough to own the Ricoh. They would own it for them and not our club. ACL will know more than us about what is going on. Otherwise they would have accepted the CVA. Where is the slightest proof that ACL wouldn't sell the Ricoh to a more trusted owner? Hearsay don't count.

I think you are right - ACL is more likely to be sold to the club under new owners. But if that doesn't change the club will never return to the Ricoh, but build a new stadium. How else can sisu secure their exit? So we fans need to either accept we're never returning to the Ricoh or put pressure to CCc and Higgs to sell ACL to sisu. The current NOPM campaign is never going to achieve anything but dividing the fans and give CCc and Higgs an excuse to maintain the current status quo.

 

[No future with SISU]

The leaked documents were all pre-Fisher I think.

The players were still registered with ltd in 2011.

 

[Sub]

so he is a lying fuckwit then

 

[RPHunt]

Some of the posts on here are worthy of the followers of some crackpot religion.

The words of the messiah are quoted as gospel and his sacred words are interpreted, with full embellishment, as the only path to a bright and better future.

 

[No future with SISU]

The leaked documents were all pre-Fisher I think.

The players were still registered with ltd in 2011.

 

[Godiva]

The players were still registered with ltd in 2011.

Yes, and ... ?

 

[luwalla]

the club will at some point in the near future own all income streams from the stadium it plays in.

Thats not the impression i got when i sat in the meeting with fisher.. Benefiting from income streams maybe, owning out own stadium , nope.. He was asked directly if the club would own the new stadium, and he skirted round the subject . If they ever did build a stadium, i doubt they would gift it to the club.. A SISU company would own it and charge us rent!

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Agreed. I wonder when the players started being registered in holdings ?!. Once again it just comes across that at some stage assets were being moved out of the entity that had the large unsecured creditor ie acl (moving assets beyond reach of creditors is illegal and for what it's worth the administrator or liquidator can pursue various actions) Doesn't look pretty but doubt anything will happen. The FL haven't got the balls and everything else has been swept under the carpet.

Outrageous but nothing a majority of people didnt know/believe weeks and months ago. It was only the FL and poor old PA that were confused...bless 'em. They are either complicit or completely incompetent ! One of each I reckon !

Easy for us to "know"(?) & "believe"...but the FL &/or PA have to have concrete evidence.

 

[lifelongcityfan]

appleton can easily prove it or not... he just needs to investigate the accounts and payroll...simples ( i am an accountant by the way).
The facts are there if anyone investigating looks hard enough.

TF is well and truly discredited. if he didnt know or blamed the adminitration, he shouldnt be a director

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

In my opinion there is no way Appleton can go for liquidation now without a legal challenge from ACL ?