Tory Monopoly (11 Viewers)

[cloughie]

Forget the pig, the bigger story should be did Cameron know about Ashcroft being non dom tax payer well before he claims to have known? Either Cameron blatantly lied pre election or not is the question a decent journalist should be asking

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Been denied that he dI'd that to a dead pig maybe it was alive still.

Corbyn has said he is not interested, I am starting to like him more he seems more interested in issues than making silly noises at pmq and the general public schoolboy pissing about that goes on.

Corbyn can do so in the knowledge that one of his backbenchers undoubtedly will.

 

[dutchman]

Been denied that he dI'd that to a dead pig

To the best of my knowledge Cameron himself has never denied the story.

If it wasn't true I would think he would be making one great joke out of it rather than avoiding the subject.

Cameron has also never explicitly denied taking drugs since becoming a politician, other than a grudging acquiescence to a statement to that effect put to him by an ITN interviewer many years ago.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Yes there’ll be plenty of disillusioned and desperate Labour MPs who’ll want to make this run and run. Outside of Westminster however I don’t believe that the majority of English voters see it as an important issue. The English electorate recognises that Labour, like the Lib Dems have now become an amusing irrelevance.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes there’ll be plenty of disillusioned and desperate Labour MPs who’ll want to make this run and run. Outside of Westminster however I don’t believe that the majority of English voters see it as an important issue. The English electorate recognises that Labour, like the Lib Dems have now become an amusing irrelevance.

Thick working class Tories like yourself are Cameron's wet dream.

No comment on the Ashcroft cover up? Now there's a surprise!

 

[rondog1973]

I actually despise books such as Ashcroft’s. In my opinion anyone who betrays another by divulging stories designed to embarrass is the lowest of the low.

I’m surprised that the Daily Mail would give credence to such a blatant ‘revengism’ and I believe such accounts always tell us far more about the squealer than the intended victim.

Could have used a better euphemism with hindsight.......

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Could have used a better euphemism with hindsight.......

Haha yes.

 

[Sick Boy]

Thick working class Tories like yourself are Cameron's wet dream.

No comment on the Ashcroft cover up? Now there's a surprise!

Still no reply.

 

[oakey]

Yes there’ll be plenty of disillusioned and desperate Labour MPs who’ll want to make this run and run. Outside of Westminster however I don’t believe that the majority of English voters see it as an important issue. The English electorate recognises that Labour, like the Lib Dems have now become an amusing irrelevance.

Do you think it healthy that there may be no centre or left wing parties with any relevance to your perceived electorate?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Do you think it healthy that there may be no centre or left wing parties with any relevance to your perceived electorate?

No it's not a healthy situation oakey. Parliament needs a strong Opposition and right now that's exactly what the Labour Party aren't.

But the fact is that everyone knew that they selected the wrong Miliband in 2010, then to compound their problems further they elect a new leader who's further left than the failed Ed. It's laughable.

It seems everyone other than Labour Party Members themselves knows that David Miliband would probably have won the General Election for Labour and that he was the one that the party should have begged to stand for election as leader this time round.


From my point of view I'm very pleased they didn't.

 

[chiefdave]

A lot of people keep saying there will be defections from labour but so far the only move seems to have been to labour!

Membership has shot up by all accounts as well. Before too long they'll have had more new members join since the result of the leadership election than the Lib Dems have in total. Read an article a couple of days ago saying they were averaging 10,000 new members a day.

 

[dutchman]

No it's not a healthy situation oakey. Parliament needs a strong Opposition and right now that's exactly what the Labour Party aren't.

What's the point of a "strong opposition" whose policies are exactly the same as the party they're supposed to be opposing?

 

[Buster]

A lot of people keep saying there will be defections from labour but so far the only move seems to have been to labour!

Membership has shot up by all accounts as well. Before too long they'll have had more new members join since the result of the leadership election than the Lib Dems have in total. Read an article a couple of days ago saying they were averaging 10,000 new members a day.

Arn't these hard core labour supporters anyway?
Im 60 and never been more interested in politics (angry old man) but for the life of me ,i cant see why you would join a political party

 

[Sick Boy]

Ernie still can't answer the question about Ashcroft.

What a surprise.

 

[mrtrench]

Thick working class Tories like yourself are Cameron's wet dream.

No comment on the Ashcroft cover up? Now there's a surprise!

You're a real charmer aren't you? I'll answer you, as a thick working class chap who voted Conservative last time out. What exactly is your question?

EDIT: One thing I have noticed on the internet is how unpleasant most left wing activists are. They claim to hold the moral high ground of caring but in practice they all seem to hate people.

 

[shmmeee]

At first I never really considered it a possibility and dismissed it as a bit of mischief from the conservative press.

However, there now seems a real possibility that Jeremy Corbyn may actually win the Labour leadership election. This, if happens, will be the ultimate suicide note

Somewhat ironic, 70 years on from the great Atlee government, we now have a real possibility that this strange Michael Foot tribute act may actually become leader of the opposition. Ban the bomb, nationalise everything that moves, super tax the rich, spend spend spend on the welfare state. Welcome to the mad world of Corbyn.

To be fair the challengers are a pretty bland bunch. Burnham looks like all he wants is a photo shoot opportunity and Cooper has less charisma than a paper bag. Liz Kendall seems to know what the part needs but is subject to vile abuse from the left wingers who see their chance to play socialist revolutionaries for a day.

If this nightmare scenario unfolds the Tories will be the true winners. Labour may never recover from the inevitable election wipe out and with the Liberals all but dead thanks to the odious Clegg then a virtual one party state beckons.

Cameron will stand down and the spectre of a true right wing party looms large with the distinctly unpleasant Johnson waiting in the wings.

These really are worrying times for democracy. Back to the eighties? The eighties throwback Corbyn may get his wish.

You sound like every elderly male Daily Mail reader I've ever come across.

No party ever gains monopoly. They tear themselves apart and the opposition always comes back. I remember people saying the Tories were dead early 2000s. The long term impact of Corbyn will be interesting, a lot will depend on how he leaves office, how the public responds to persistent press attacks (sometimes happens) and whether if he is seen as a disaster it's because of him personally or Labour as whole.

There's an awful lot of chicken licken going on at the moment and it's mostly because the press love a crisis and politicians are drama queens by trade.

I don't think anyone, including Corbyn expects him to be there for 2020. And we don't know who will take over from Cameron yet. Dan Jarvis Vs Theresa May is a whole different kettle of fish to Corbyn Vs Johnson. Osbourne's appeal will depend mostly on how the economy is going, and no-one really expects it to last another 5 years without recession. Will the public give him another do over if he misses deficit reduction targets again and they're feeling the pinch of cuts?

And that's before we get into the EU referendum, what impact that will have on UKIP, the Tories and Labour is yet to be seen.

Waaay to early to be making predictions right now.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

You're a real charmer aren't you? I'll answer you, as a thick working class chap who voted Conservative last time out. What exactly is your question?

EDIT: One thing I have noticed on the internet is how unpleasant most left wing activists are. They claim to hold the moral high ground of caring but in practice they all seem to hate people.

Hahaha and that’s the point mrtrench. He’s furiously demanding a reply but doesn’t have the intelligence to realise that he hasn’t actually asked a question. In fact even if he did I wouldn’t waste my valuable time answering the seething fool.

Time for a nice glass of wine.

Enjoy your evening.

Cheers and PUSB.

 

[Sick Boy]

You're a real charmer aren't you? I'll answer you, as a thick working class chap who voted Conservative last time out. What exactly is your question?

EDIT: One thing I have noticed on the internet is how unpleasant most left wing activists are. They claim to hold the moral high ground of caring but in practice they all seem to hate people.

I'm far from a left wing activist. I just believe in equality and fairness, something the tory boys seem to not be bothered about.

What are your views about Ashcroft's claims that Cameron knew about his non-dom status? Don't care? Think it's fair enough?

 

[Sick Boy]

Hahaha and that’s the point mrtrench. He’s furiously demanding a reply but doesn’t have the intelligence to realise that he hasn’t actually asked a question. In fact even if he did I wouldn’t waste my valuable time answering the seething fool.

Time for a nice glass of wine.

Enjoy your evening.

Cheers and PUSB.

The question was quite clear and I see how have to respond to abuse and personal attacks to deflect it away.

Nice to see that Trench has decided to side himself with a racist and homophobe such as yourself.

 

[mrtrench]

I'm far from a left wing activist. I just believe in equality and fairness, something the tory boys seem to not be bothered about.

What are your views about Ashcroft's claims that Cameron knew about his non-dom status? Don't care? Think it's fair enough?

I don't know if it's true or not: Ashcroft is obviously pissed off and slinging any mud he can. If it is true then it's not right but I'm sure it's an example of something that goes on all the time in Westminster on all sides - this kind of political expediency is part and parcel of being a weasel politician.

As for siding with a racist, absolutely not. However you were being so rude and persistent & I wanted to stop you.

And finally, Tories not caring about equality and fairness? I believe they care as much as the rest of them; the difference is their approach: don't give a person a fish, teach them how to fish.

 

[mrtrench]

Hahaha and that’s the point mrtrench. He’s furiously demanding a reply but doesn’t have the intelligence to realise that he hasn’t actually asked a question. In fact even if he did I wouldn’t waste my valuable time answering the seething fool.

Time for a nice glass of wine.

Enjoy your evening.

Cheers and PUSB.

I objected to him calling you thick - now you are calling him names, I'm sorry I intervened.

 

[Ian1779]

And finally, Tories not caring about equality and fairness? I believe they care as much as the rest of them; the difference is their approach: don't give a person a fish, teach them how to fish.

What you failed to add is that they will tax the fuck out of your fishing rod - using the money to subsidise their rich friends. Then sell the lake for a fraction of what's it worth to said friends.

 

[mrtrench]

What you failed to add is that they will tax the fuck out of your fishing rod - using the money to subsidise their rich friends. Then sell the lake for a fraction of what's it worth to said friends.

I don't believe you understand the values of the two main parties. The Tories are the ones who reduce tax.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I don't believe you understand the values of the two main parties. The Tories are the ones who reduce tax.

That will be why Thatcher raised VAT from 8% to 15% in 1979, Major put it up to 17.5% & Cameron put it up to 20% in 2011 (after Darling had already taken it back from 15% to 17.5% because Browns sums were all fucked up).

The Tax take isn't just the headline rate of Income Tax.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That will be why Thatcher raised VAT from 8% to 15% in 1979, Major put it up to 17.5% & Cameron put it up to 20% in 2011 (after Darling had already taken it back from 15% to 17.5% because Browns sums were all fucked up).

The Tax take isn't just the headline rate of Income Tax.

VAT's always a regressive tax too, as it tends to penalise those who spend the higher proportion of their income on consumer goods.

Which tends to be those on lower salaries.

 

[Jack Griffin]

VAT's always a regressive tax too, as it tends to penalise those who spend the higher proportion of their income on consumer goods.

Which tends to be those on lower salaries.

Sure, you don't have to spell it out to me mate, I understand these things.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Sure, you don't have to spell it out to me mate, I understand these things.

This thread ain't just me and you.

 

[wingy]

VAT's always a regressive tax too, as it tends to penalise those who spend the higher proportion of their income on consumer goods.

Which tends to be those on lower salaries.

Yeah but the beauty Is that It catches avoiders etc to a degree, plus reduces the bill and dept's required to collect It, the cost
born by business.
Of course It's also Indiscriminate and catches those on low fixed Incomes or benefits,but hey when did that ever matter?

 

[dutchman]

And finally, Tories not caring about equality and fairness? I believe they care as much as the rest of them; the difference is their approach: don't give a person a fish, teach them how to fish.

Don't give them a pig either, teach them how to fuck a pig.

 

[Ian1779]

I don't believe you understand the values of the two main parties. The Tories are the ones who reduce tax.

I understand it plainly. I just don't believe the Tory proganda.

 

[Grendel]

I understand it plainly. I just don't believe the Tory proganda.

The lower income earners in the country generally have more disposable income under a Tory government as the Tory philosophy is to lower the tax burden.

 

[Grendel]

You sound like every elderly male Daily Mail reader I've ever come across.

No party ever gains monopoly. They tear themselves apart and the opposition always comes back. I remember people saying the Tories were dead early 2000s. The long term impact of Corbyn will be interesting, a lot will depend on how he leaves office, how the public responds to persistent press attacks (sometimes happens) and whether if he is seen as a disaster it's because of him personally or Labour as whole.

There's an awful lot of chicken licken going on at the moment and it's mostly because the press love a crisis and politicians are drama queens by trade.

I don't think anyone, including Corbyn expects him to be there for 2020. And we don't know who will take over from Cameron yet. Dan Jarvis Vs Theresa May is a whole different kettle of fish to Corbyn Vs Johnson. Osbourne's appeal will depend mostly on how the economy is going, and no-one really expects it to last another 5 years without recession. Will the public give him another do over if he misses deficit reduction targets again and they're feeling the pinch of cuts?

And that's before we get into the EU referendum, what impact that will have on UKIP, the Tories and Labour is yet to be seen.

Waaay to early to be making predictions right now.

It's amusing when someone throws "daily mail" into the debate. It shows an absence of thought as does the rest of your somewhat meaningless ramble.

The point is that the next election has already been decided. It has. The Conservative party actually has a slender majority and is not popular,

I again make the point. Thatcher was never a popular choice at all. Her poll rating was very low. However, what happened then was a split in opposition. The Labour Party was unelectable and the moderates departed so the opposition split.

Much as I loathed the ridiculous left wing Marxist nonsense the very priveleged Lord Wedgewood Benn advocated I cannot say he wasn't a credible alternative. He wanted leadership, he was articulate and he has the charisma.

Corbyn has absolutely none of these qualities. On question time we had a shadow cabinet member openly mocking him and smirking every time his name was mentioned. The always entertaining Andrew Neil followed with open derision and laughing at his sexual adventures with silly Dianne Abbot (take note Cloughie - it's a fact)
Poor old Alan Johnson tried to say that Corbyn was a serious contender but he knew really it was just a great big joke.

That's the reality. The Labour Party is a joke. 90% of the PLP despise the leader and that's a unique moment in politics.

It's why the political arena is now finished for some time to come.

 

[dutchman]

90% of the PLP despise the leader and that's a unique moment in politics.

That hardly matters since they're due to be deselected and replaced with genuine Labour candidates when the boundary changes come into effect.

 

[Grendel]

That hardly matters since they're due to be deselected and replaced with genuine Labour candidates when the boundary changes come into effect.

You do make me laugh.

 

[martcov]

That hardly matters since they're due to be deselected and replaced with genuine Labour candidates when the boundary changes come into effect.

Is that true? Corbyn is 70's and 80's labour and we all had enough of that. If your genuine Labour candidates are the same "old school" people, then Labour has really had it. What happened to Triumph in Meriden when the labour government got involved? That was an example of Tony Benn's industry policy and is from the same old school thinking. Corbyn seems to be a nice bloke, but I cannot see him running a country and dealing with the likes of Putin ( KGB goon ) or ISIS ( religious nuts ).