Abuse of players by fans (2 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I don't get just abusing players (certainly your own) but I understand exasperation at individuals for mistakes and poor decisions, and even collectively booing of the team at full time for a poor performance.

Issues such as racism and sexism are still very much alive, though I do honestly believe they are changing slowly. The fact there is a long-standing joke about people squirming over granny/grandad's comments indicate to me it's slowly improving but has a long way to go. I don't doubt that a few generations from now our grandkids will be embarrassed by stuff we say as it's not deemed acceptable any more.

The advent of mobile phone cameras does allow it to be highlighted more in society and while I think overall incidents are reducing, more incidents are being shown than previously and those suffering the abuse feel more empowered to report it and that something might get done.

But neither do I think abuse of black players by white fans is necessarily racist in nature - often it's just because said player has been shit. Undoubtedly some of the abuse is racist in nature and those people should be made an example of, but I think it's a very dangerous idea to make the assumption a black player being booed by a white fan is automatically racism. I've seen black guys in pubs during England games abuse Rooney. When Beckham got sent off in the WC everyone in the place regardless of race was apoplectic at him - were the black people there doing it because they're racist? No.

We're still a massively white majority country so any racist incidents are far more likely to be white aggression on other minorities, but I very much doubt a similar mindset doesn't exist the other way round as well.

 

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[Nick]

I don't get just abusing players (certainly your own) but I understand exasperation at individuals for mistakes and poor decisions, and even collectively booing of the team at full time for a poor performance.

Issues such as racism and sexism are still very much alive, though I do honestly believe they are changing slowly. The fact there is a long-standing joke about people squirming over granny/grandad's comments indicate to me it's slowly improving but has a long way to go. I don't doubt that a few generations from now our grandkids will be embarrassed by stuff we say as it's not deemed acceptable any more.

The advent of mobile phone cameras does allow it to be highlighted more in society and while I think overall incidents are reducing, more incidents are being shown than previously and those suffering the abuse feel more empowered to report it and that something might get done.

But neither do I think abuse of black players by white fans is necessarily racist in nature - often it's just because said player has been shit. Undoubtedly some of the abuse is racist in nature and those people should be made an example of, but I think it's a very dangerous idea to make the assumption a black player being booed by a white fan is automatically racism. I've seen black guys in pubs during England games abuse Rooney. When Beckham got sent off in the WC everyone in the place regardless of race was apoplectic at him - were the black people there doing it because they're racist? No.

We're still a massively white majority country so any racist incidents are far more likely to be white aggression on other minorities, but I very much doubt a similar mindset doesn't exist the other way round as well.

The point is more when it is racist abuse. If I was to boo Jordan Willis or Bakayoko or say "you were shit mate" that isn't racist. If I use racist slurs that point to their race, that does make it racist. A black guy in a pub saying Rooney is a twat isn't being racist, if he started referring to his race then it would be.

To be honest, like most normal people their race doesn't come into it when I slate them for having a bad game. I judge them just on their football. Sadly there are still some twats who don't.

I thought Sterling was shite in the world cup, nothing to do with the colour of his skin.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Like it or not this is symptomatic of our times. Now before anyone starts I'm not claiming that all Brexiteers are this or that. However there are some who are seemingly bouyed on, and believe it gives them a platform to revert to unacceptable behaviour towards others. However it does show that the problem never really went away.

Brexiteers

 

[Nick]

Brexiteers

It is fact that if you voted to leave the EU that you have a special room in public places where black people aren't allowed.

 

[Grendel]

It is fact that if you voted to leave the EU that you have a special room in public places where black people aren't allowed.

Given that many member states are far more abusive to black people I would probably say no

 

[Nick]

Given that many member states are far more abusive to black people I would probably say no

You just haven't been invited into one. Not important enough.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The point is more when it is racist abuse. If I was to boo Jordan Willis or Bakayoko or say "you were shit mate" that isn't racist. When I use racist slurs that point to their race, that does make it racist. A black guy in a pub saying Rooney is a twat isn't being racist, if he started referring to his race then it would be.

That's part of the point I was trying to make, albeit poorly. I remember the game Stephen Hughes had to go in goal in after our keeper got sent off by the ref, who was Asian. The WT were incensed by the decision and were shouting abuse at the ref, including me - that wasn't racist. I heard one guy to the left of me shout "you stupid P*** c***". That WAS racist and I felt ashamed to support the same team as that prick. The grey area is those that have a go at players because of their race but know not to specifically use racial slurs or terminology. I'm been at games we certain individuals seemed to give way more abuse to minority players than white, but didn't overtly use racism. They certainly came across as racist, but I certainly couldn't accuse them of it. Might even be they themselves don't realise they're doing it?

At school I did hear black kids use the term 'honky' on occasion which is racism as well. I've wondered a bit about Nish Kumar as well. He does a lot of stuff on race, as you'd expect from a BAME comedian, but some of it could definitely be accused of being lazy generic racial stereotyping of white people. If you reversed a lot of what he said being said by a white comedian about Asians they'd never work again.

 

[Nick]

That's part of the point I was trying to make, albeit poorly. I remember the game Stephen Hughes had to go in goal in after our keeper got sent off by the ref, who was Asian. The WT were incensed by the decision and were shouting abuse at the ref, including me - that wasn't racist. I heard one guy to the left of me shout "you stupid P*** c***". That WAS racist and I felt ashamed to support the same team as that prick. At school I did hear black kids use the term 'honky' on occasion which is racism as well.

I've wondered a bit about Nish Kumar as well. He does a lot of stuff on race, as you'd expect from a BAME comedian, but some of it could definitely be accused of being lazy generic racial stereotyping of white people. If you reversed a lot of what he said being said by a white comedian about Asians they'd never work again.

It's comedy though isn't it, it's the same as Paul Chowdhry. He rips the piss out of white people (Dave) and different Asians. You can see that it is comedy and is it intended that way and it isn't usually aggressive.

It's completely different to nearly bursting a blood vessel in somebody's face shouting things.

Of course racism can work in all different directions, there are bellends in every walk of life no matter what colour their skin is.

The people who piss me off are the ones who are actually racist and the people who claim racism and act offended when it isn't.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It's comedy though isn't it, it's the same as Paul Chowdhry. He rips the piss out of white people (Dave) and different Asians. You can see that it is comedy and is it intended that way and it isn't usually aggressive.

It's completely different to nearly bursting a blood vessel in somebody's face shouting things.

Of course racism can work in all different directions, there are bellends in every walk of life no matter what colour their skin is.

The people who piss me off are the ones who are actually racist and the people who claim racism and act offended when it isn't.

It is comedy and he's undoubtedly playing it up for effect. But there is a hidden 'truth' in there as well - it's an extension of his actual beliefs and opinions, just like the vegans and feminists. It's got a passive-aggressive vibe to it. It's certainly different from the kind of stuff that's been seen on the news of just screaming stuff at people.

The point was it's not really any different from the lazy stereotypes that used to exist in comedy about BAME people. Anyone doing that shit in comedy now wouldn't have much of a career, if at all, let alone be on TV.

 

[duffer]

I remember the Forest Green away game earlier in the year. We were stood next to a group - including a girl - who were hurling racist abuse at both sets of players. We were packed in tight so couldn't move that far away from them. Most around me were tutting and were obviously disgusted but no one said anything, including me. You don't know how these idiots are going to react nowadays. A sad reflection on society.

I've personally never thrown abuse at players like that.

After the cup game at Wembley I witnessed some horrendous racial abuse of a security guard by some knuckle dragging Neanderthal egged on by a few of his mates. All of them were Cov fans.

I've seldom felt as angry, but like everyone else around, and there were a lot of people about, I did nothing. I'm still ashamed of that, but it's not uncommon apparently; it's known as the bystander effect, where in essence everyone knows it's wrong, but everyone waits for someone else to do something. The more people there are around, the less likely you are as an individual to do something about it. Perhaps what you saw and felt too Torch?

Regardless, if there's an upside to the story, then later, on the train, I came across what I think was a more typical Coventry scene, where a bunch of fans of different colours and ages were having a great time together, sharing beer, food, and singing songs etc..

There's more good than bad, but the key to it for me is to never again allow the racist crap to become normalised or acceptable. Maybe we can't change how some people think, but hopefully we can stop them acting out on it...

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

The guy who through the banana at Arsenal last week said he isn't racist "because he has black friends"
The Chelsea fan will probably say the lip reader misread what he said.
The Sol Campbell thread on here was a point in case. Was he criticized because he's a knob or because he's a knob who is black? Oversensitive Sol?
Then you get the white defensive response which is actually saying that the target is being too sensitive, after all it's only words.
Racism is a bad as ever but perhaps not as widespread. It's subtle but there,
it's overt and in your face at times. Sometimes it's comical and you can't help but think that the person doing it is stupid and uneducated, it can touch a nerve and hurt like hell, that somebody who share air with you has such views.
when it's your children who are being abused then it's more than personal and when your child is asking you why he is being ostracized and telling his black mother it's her fault then it is deeper than a few words.
Whether you are white or a more noticeable ethnic origin racism exists and there is a price to pay and society, our society is poorer for it.

 

[Sba180]

Anyone know what was shouted or is it case of people shouting at a black player so it must be racism. Or are you just up you're own arses?

 

[Otis]

Well I hope the Arsenal lad's black friends are not his friend anymore.

I think that, that in some ways is worse, having black friends and then throwing a banana at another black person.

Isn't that akin to having a gay friend and then shouting 'poof' at a gay person you pass in the street?

 

[Otis]

Anyone know what was shouted or is it case of people shouting at a black player so it must be racism. Or are you just up you're own arses?

Someone filmed it and said it was racist.

I personally cannot decipher what they are shouting.

I think it might be 'black bastard' or suchlike.

 

[Otis]

And anyway, if you look at the thread it was talking about the abuse of footballers in general.

 

[Sba180]

And anyway, if you look at the thread it was talking about the abuse of footballers in general.

Which seems to have been taken over by someone shouted at someone so it must mean that.

 

[hill83]

Anyone know what was shouted or is it case of people shouting at a black player so it must be racism. Or are you just up you're own arses?

Ignoring the multiple hundreds of times every week at football matches when black players get shouted at and nobody suggests it’s racism.

Nice angle though.

 

[Otis]

Just looked and seemingly it was 'you f**king black c**t'.

 

[Otis]

Which is obviously quite delightful.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

Which seems to have been taken over by someone shouted at someone so it must mean that.

Or it's an example of how footballers are abused, in this case racially abused and it happened just yesterday.
I do wonder why there are people who take a contrary view when the evidence was undisputed.?
It's never the wrong time to do the right thing, halftimebovril.

 

[Covstu]

Sterling also confirmed it was

 

[hill83]

Sterling also confirmed it was

Must be that race card again.

 

[Covstu]

Must be that race card again.

Don’t they have weak ankles or something?

 

[Sba180]

Or it's an example of how footballers are abused, in this case racially abused and it happened just yesterday.
I do wonder why there are people who take a contrary view when the evidence was undisputed.?
It's never the wrong time to do the right thing, halftimebovril.

a) I don't know what was said
b) I don't get easily offended and I especially don't get offended on someone else's behalf
c) I'm sure Raheem Sterling is on enough per week to rise above shouting from the stands

 

[hill83]

b) I especially don't get offended on someone else's behalf

And there it is.

I’m alright jack, everyone else can fuck off.

It’s the absolute sign of a c**t

 

[Nick]

a) I don't know what was said
b) I don't get easily offended and I especially don't get offended on someone else's behalf
c) I'm sure Raheem Sterling is on enough per week to rise above shouting from the stands

He laughed at them, although the amount he gets paid doesnt warrant racist abuse the same as if it was a bloke on minimum wage.

 

[Otis]

As Hill has said, we shout at black players all the time. We shout at all players,white, black, yellow, green.

if Brown puts in a bad cross or Willis makes a bad back pass we shout at them. If Bakayoko misses a chance people have a go at him.

How many times each week is the 'race card' brought up?

 

[clint van damme]

a) I don't know what was said
b) I don't get easily offended and I especially don't get offended on someone else's behalf
c) I'm sure Raheem Sterling is on enough per week to rise above shouting from the stands

Yeah Raheem, You get paid enough, take been racially abused on the chin - fuck me

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

a) I don't know what was said
b) I don't get easily offended and I especially don't get offended on someone else's behalf
c) I'm sure Raheem Sterling is on enough per week to rise above shouting from the stands

When in a hole stop digging.

 

[Otis]

a) I don't know what was said
b) I don't get easily offended and I especially don't get offended on someone else's behalf
c) I'm sure Raheem Sterling is on enough per week to rise above shouting from the stands

Are you never been offended if someone has been treated appallingly?

 

[sylus]

Ignoring the multiple hundreds of times every week at football matches when black players get shouted at and nobody suggests it’s racism.

Nice angle though.

And how many times during football matches are white players abused,slated etc, thousands it must be, and nothing is ever mentioned,but if its a black player you must be racist right.

 

[clint van damme]

I'm just waiting on shouting a racist slur at someone is the same as calling them ginger or fatty for a full house on the racist bingo.

 

[hill83]

And how many times during football matches are white players abused,slated etc, thousands it must be, and nothing is ever mentioned,but if its a black player you must be racist right.

What? You might have misunderstood what I was saying.

My point was in response to someone essentially the same thing you are saying. There are hundreds of times black players will be shouted at where racism is never suggested. So no. “If it’s a to a black player you must be racist” is not true.

As for white players being shouted at, what’s your point? Nobody is suggesting that is racism either.

 

[clint van damme]

And how many times during football matches are white players abused,slated etc, thousands it must be, and nothing is ever mentioned,but if its a black player you must be racist right.

Are you suggesting white players are abused because of the colour of their skin?
Because calling a white player a useless twat is not the same as racially abusing a black player and you really shouldn't need it explaining to you

 

[Otis]

And how many times during football matches are white players abused,slated etc, thousands it must be, and nothing is ever mentioned,but if its a black player you must be racist right.

Have white players been abused for the colour of their skin?

Seems a complete deflection that. ALL players get abuse. That's not racism.