Actual Nazis in America (2 Viewers)

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martcov

Well-Known Member
scubasteve said:
Comparing a war against a Nazi state, and 2 groups of idiots using violence are 2 different things, what a stupid thing to say.
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One of those groups admires the Nazi state, organised a Nazi rally and killed someone. Yet you are on about the group that stood up to the Nazis and want them classed as equivalent to Nazis which most probably weren't.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
Like the second world war, do you condemn that. Because that was violence against the hard right that you love so much
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Well actually it wasn't but hey ho.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
scubasteve said:
To be honest I don't like war.
but one is a country using a army, the other is vigilantly group taking law and order into their own hands.
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And the other are anti semitic, islamophobic, homophobic, racist fascists, but they're all as bad as each other.
 
S

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
I don't really care about that. I'd rather you apologise for sympathising with nazis
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when did I sympathise with Nazi's? have a look back I called them idiots, racists and should shown up for what they are only a few posts ago. im just against vigilantly violence and taking law and order into citizens hands.
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
scubasteve said:
when did I sympathise with Nazi's? have a look back I called them idiots, racists and should shown up for what they are only a few posts ago. im just against vigilantly violence and taking law and order into citizens hands.
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Nazi's but also citizens

Go and get a GCSE mate.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
Kingokings204 said:
What by asking a rhetorical question?

I have seen no one defend nazis on here personally. I have quotes of people shouting them down from every poster I think.

Some posters just see the bigger picture.
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No, by not being able to put a sentence together in English. Some do see the bigger picture..... which is why we criticise Trump..
 
S

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
No, by not being able to put a sentence together in English. Some do see the bigger picture..... which is why we criticise Trump..
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Sorry I do apologise for my typos, I didn't realise is was publishing a novel, I thought it was just a forum to voice a opinion. I now see everyone must have excellent spelling and grammar to post a point. Shall I spell check my post for you next time so you can understand better next time?
I criticised trump earlier, called him a dick. He said he was anti war and didn't want to get involved in other countries issues before his election, he then dropped a bomb on Syria, and got in a dick swinging competition with north Korea. The bloke is a cock and has a ego problem, and there are plenty other things I don't agree with him about as well but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with everything he does.
My opinion is that Nazi's/ white supremacists are idiots, wrong and have place in society and should be condemned for their twisted views, I just don't think saying its ok for another group to turn up, take law and order into their own hands and start fighting is the right way to go. Show them up for the racists that they are, take pictures and shame them. In my opinion there are better and more constructive ways to fix the problem than just using violence. How in anyway that makes me sympathise with Nazi's or think trump is great I don't know
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
scubasteve said:
Sorry I do apologise for my typos, I didn't realise is was publishing a novel, I thought it was just a forum to voice a opinion. I now see everyone must have excellent spelling and grammar to post a point. Shall I spell check my post for you next time so you can understand better next time?
I criticised trump earlier, called him a dick. He said he was anti war and didn't want to get involved in other countries issues before his election, he then dropped a bomb on Syria, and got in a dick swinging competition with north Korea. The bloke is a cock and has a ego problem, and there are plenty other things I don't agree with him about as well but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with everything he does.
My opinion is that Nazi's/ white supremacists are idiots, wrong and have place in society and should be condemned for their twisted views, I just don't think saying its ok for another group to turn up, take law and order into their own hands and start fighting is the right way to go. Show them up for the racists that they are, take pictures and shame them. In my opinion there are better and more constructive ways to fix the problem than just using violence. How in anyway that makes me sympathise with Nazi's or think trump is great I don't know
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Yes, but it was a Nazi who did the killing and it was Nazis that held a torch light procession - and who beat up a black man. It was Nazis who wanted a show of strength which provoked a response which included violence. The president of a democracy should in this case have unequivocally condemned the Nazis. There is no justification for diluting their guilt. It goes without saying that violence is not the best way of stopping them, but to place people who opposed them as being partly to blame is only going to embolden them. Not to mention saying that there were fine people on both sides - which means that some people marching with the Nazis are fine people. They are not, and it was particularly stupid of Trump to say that they are fine people.
 
S

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Yes, but it was a Nazi who did the killing and it was Nazis that held a torch light procession - and who beat up a black man. It was Nazis who wanted a show of strength which provoked a response which included violence. The president of a democracy should in this case have unequivocally condemned the Nazis. There is no justification for diluting their guilt. It goes without saying that violence is not the best way of stopping them, but to place people who opposed them as being partly to blame is only going to embolden them. Not to mention saying that there were fine people on both sides - which means that some people marching with the Nazis are fine people. They are not, and it was particularly stupid of Trump to say that they are fine people.
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I agree with you on that saying there are fine people he was wrong to say that. I think he does this to piss off some of the media (who are clearly at war with each other) and provoke a reaction. He is a business and entertainment guy, and I get the impression he probably does it to score points and almost treat it like a entertainment show. This isn't the place for that, to be a leader of probably the most powerful country in the world he probably should bite his lip and curb his own ego and opinions.
The police should have dealt with the protest better before the violence started, and people shouldn't be turning up to protests thinking violence is ok. There was a lot of good peaceful people out protesting against the Nazis and they have every right to do this, but clearly there was a number who turned up just to fight (antifa) hence the weapons and amour.
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
It's strange that those arguing in support of nazis keep saying nazi's and don't know the difference between have and of. It's almost like a lack of intelligence leads to right wing nonsense.
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Well I suppose being thick is better than the default qualification for being left wing: Mentally unstable.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
PTA said:
And just as a side note, everyone is very quick to forget the violent protests at Trump's inauguration that led to over 200 arrests. Were these Nazis who were anti-Trump?? Being violent against those with a different view is more Nazi-like than protesting with torches against history being erased.
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they were protesting against the inauguration of a racist president armed with baseball bats and setting fire to bins while the white supremacists were protesting against the removal of a racists statue armed with guns and killed someone by driving a car at them - I definitely see the latter as worse.

And I wouldn't call it erasing history, just not glorifying slavery.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
PTA said:
Firstly, the actions of one individual cannot be used to tarnish an entire group. If I used an example of a Muslim terrorist to say that Muslims killed people by driving a van at them when discussing the market attacks, that wouldn't be right would it? And secondly, I could just as easily argue that Clinton is racist if you're saying Trump is, and they were protesting against the viewpoint of 62 million of their fellow citizens. That's more significant than protesting against against the removal of a statue.
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Robert E Lees statue isn't about the actions of one man it's about what he represents.
I'm sure the same red necks who were protesting it's removal were cheering when Saddam Husseins statue got pulled down in Baghdad so this removing history argument doesn't wash for me.

I;m not sure what you mean by argueing Clinton is racist, has he any quotes attributable to him similar to these:

Here Are 13 Examples Of Donald Trump Being Racist | HuffPost
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Robert E Lees statue isn't about the actions of one man it's about what he represents.
I'm sure the same red necks who were protesting it's removal were cheering when Saddam Husseins statue got pulled down in Baghdad so this removing history argument doesn't wash for me.

I;m not sure what you mean by argueing Clinton is racist, has he any quotes attributable to him similar to these:

Here Are 13 Examples Of Donald Trump Being Racist | HuffPost
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In fairness, those examples are mostly very wet to be honest. A bit desperate from the Huff Post I think.

I'm not saying he isn't racist, he might be, but they're going to have to do better than that. I am also pretty sure there was some wash with Hillary being racist, but again, they were tedious links like the ones in that article above.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
PTA said:
And just as a side note, everyone is very quick to forget the violent protests at Trump's inauguration that led to over 200 arrests. Were these Nazis who were anti-Trump?? Being violent against those with a different view is more Nazi-like than protesting with torches against history being erased.
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History isn't being erased and the main purpose of the march was to get Nazis on to the street as opposed to sitting at their computers. The staue was secondary. They knew they would be attacked and may lose their jobs as a result of being filmed, but they wanted to be seen and therefore encourage others holding their views to come out. Trump's presidency encourages them and he confirmed their opinion by diluting their guilt and sharing it with anti Nazis. They are now seen by some to be the victims. They are not.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
PTA said:
Firstly, the actions of one individual cannot be used to tarnish an entire group. If I used an example of a Muslim terrorist to say that Muslims killed people by driving a van at them when discussing the market attacks, that wouldn't be right would it? And secondly, I could just as easily argue that Clinton is racist if you're saying Trump is, and they were protesting against the viewpoint of 62 million of their fellow citizens. That's more significant than protesting against against the removal of a statue.
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Would you be for a statue of a muslim terrorist who killed hundreds? Or would you be against pulling one down as it would be erasing history? I live in Germany and surprisingly enough there are no statues of Hitler to be seen. There are constant TV documentaries and are many Hitler pictures in museums or "document centres". History has not been erased, but it is not being openly celebrated by naming parks and having statues of Hitler. I think the statues should be there - in museums or places of record. Not in public squares which, in effect, honour them.
 
P

PTA

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Would you be for a statue of a muslim terrorist who killed hundreds? Or would you be against pulling one down as it would be erasing history? I live in Germany and surprisingly enough there are no statues of Hitler to be seen. There are constant TV documentaries and are many Hitler pictures in museums or "document centres". History has not been erased, but it is not being openly celebrated by naming parks and having statues of Hitler. I think the statues should be there - in museums or places of record. Not in public squares which, in effect, honour them.
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I agree to some extent. Let me be clear, I think the Nazis marching is vile and they deserve the abuse they get. But I don't think that statues of Confederates, particularly in Confederate states, should be torn down as they stood for more than just slavery and at the very least the troops that died should be honoured. It's similar to no statues of Hitler, but remembrance for soldiers who fought for Germany.

And I get that Trump's presidency fuels these people, but Trump's presidency itself was fuelled by Obama and his liberalism and this is what led to this. Trump and his supporters are the reaction to Obama and his, the Nazis are just using it as a platform so I don't think calling Trump racist is fair game. Misogynist yes, racist no.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
In fairness, those examples are mostly very wet to be honest. A bit desperate from the Huff Post I think.

I'm not saying he isn't racist, he might be, but they're going to have to do better than that. I am also pretty sure there was some wash with Hillary being racist, but again, they were tedious links like the ones in that article above.
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I suppose it depends on your point of view. I think some of the terminology used by him is disgraceful.
There is a far more comprehensive list on the net somewhere but I couldn't find it, most of us would be sacked if we spoke like that at work yet this man is POTUS, it ridiculous.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
PTA said:
I agree to some extent. Let me be clear, I think the Nazis marching is vile and they deserve the abuse they get. But I don't think that statues of Confederates, particularly in Confederate states, should be torn down as they stood for more than just slavery and at the very least the troops that died should be honoured. It's similar to no statues of Hitler, but remembrance for soldiers who fought for Germany.

And I get that Trump's presidency fuels these people, but Trump's presidency itself was fuelled by Obama and his liberalism and this is what led to this. Trump and his supporters are the reaction to Obama and his, the Nazis are just using it as a platform so I don't think calling Trump racist is fair game. Misogynist yes, racist no.
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Not racist?? Are you serious, just read the link I posted above.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
PTA said:
I agree to some extent. Let me be clear, I think the Nazis marching is vile and they deserve the abuse they get. But I don't think that statues of Confederates, particularly in Confederate states, should be torn down as they stood for more than just slavery and at the very least the troops that died should be honoured. It's similar to no statues of Hitler, but remembrance for soldiers who fought for Germany.

And I get that Trump's presidency fuels these people, but Trump's presidency itself was fuelled by Obama and his liberalism and this is what led to this. Trump and his supporters are the reaction to Obama and his, the Nazis are just using it as a platform so I don't think calling Trump racist is fair game. Misogynist yes, racist no.
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Trump's presidency is fueled by lies.. not Obama. Obama was black ( not really, but enough for many in the USA ). Trump gave him grief the whole time. He was blocked at virtually everything by the republicans. There are people who think Obama was a Muslim, or a gay ( his wife is supposed to be transgender according to them ), and so it goes on fueled by Fox, Alex Jones and various others who could not stand a democrat as a popular president and one that was black annoyed them particulary. So, yes - whether or not he is racist - Trump aims at racists and refers to "us" losing "our" identity. Or even "they" are trying to take it from "us". It's all us and them.

I think Trump is a Trumpist and if he thinks he gets support by being religious, he will be religious, or if it means attracting racists, he will do that. He is totally corrupt and would sell his soul ( if he had one ) to the devil. Not fit to be president.

As for the statues honouring the fallen, then by all means put them in a cemetry. Not in a public park or the town centre.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Of course they've existed for decades, but they've become emboldened by the rhetoric of the current administration, any one who thinks differently is deluded. I'm at work but could also link you dozens of quotes from Trump which would probably get censored on here.
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Have they though?
In reality (I don't know this, just suggesting it is a possible) the Trump hating sections of the media have simply chosen to report that said Nazi groups had plans to march. That fires up the anti-brigade, they provoke the local people into protesting and bingo! They have put Trump right on the spot.


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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
No one denies Trump could have and should have said things differently. I doubt, though, it would have made very much difference. Interestingly I saw a Fox report when he did specifically denounce far right white groups and suggested he was reading an autocue and it was scripted. When he didn't it was from the heart.

The real point here is that virtually all of society are not neo nazis and will find neo nazi views repugnant and frankly ridiculous.

However there is a definite new and aggressive left wing attitude growing. The election of trump was legitimate but now we definately see vilification of those who voted republican as being branded as supporting the KKK. There are numerous examples on social media of people being vilified merely for being Republican.

The recent murder attempt on a republican by a hard left extremist went virtually un-noticed - would this be the case the other way round? I think not.

Was the KKK support for Hilary Clinton during her campaign acknowledged? I think not.

This country sees the same disturbing trends. Even on this thread you make a mildly provocotive remark and you see the reaction

We even have a comment that May hasn't commented on it this implying (absurdly) she is a White Supremecist sympathiser and by proxy do must anyone who supported her party.

The Brexit thread exposes this - namely if you support Brexit you must be "right wing" you must oppose immigration - you must be racist. You are bad.

On social media during the election a woman put up a selfie with a Tory candidate. She ended up closing her account due to abuse accusing her of being amongst other things a nazi bitch.

Now we see a Rotherham MP quitting after making a perhaps misplaced comment but not a particularly innacurate one.

The Newcastle grooming scandal was clearly a gross act of racism by the convicted but say it and it's you who are the racist.

These are troubling times for democracy and not because of some Nazi nut jobs and an obstinate stupid president.
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Some very good points G...and very true

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