Break even (1 Viewer)

Nick · Sep 14, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Do you think SISU should try to raise investment not to be saddled on the club's books. However a gamble on promotion.

(Seperate question to the OP)

Why would they? They wouldn't get a return going into the championship, and if they then tried for the premier league you are talking loads of millions.

Who is going to just give that money away unless they are billionaires who can? Not people with investors on their case.

A bit random.

Grendel · Sep 14, 2016

Nick said:
Why would they? They wouldn't get a return going into the championship, and if they then tried for the premier league you are talking loads of millions.

Who is going to just give that money away?

A bit random.

No one. No one will invest the money required.

dongonzalos · Sep 14, 2016

Nick said:
So if they put say 2 or 3 million in they could just take it out on promotion to the championship?

If they aren't loading the debt, where is the money coming from and what happens if they do a forest and plough tens of millions in. Have they just pissed it up the wall?

The point you seem to be trying to get at is that somebody should be gifting the club money. It isn't going to happen is it?

No a pure investment. Not a debt loaded investment.
For example (just a random suggestion, not how it would be)
You aporoach 20 investors and say. We have TM. We missed out on the play offs last season by a draw and a win.
Would you like to invest 50k.
If we are promoted in a year you will recieve 20% profit on your investment.
If we are not you lose the lot.
High rewards for high gambles

dongonzalos · Sep 14, 2016

Grendel said:
No one. No one will invest the money required.

Are you sure about that?

Grendel · Sep 14, 2016

dongonzalos said:
No a pure investment. Not a debt loaded investment.
For example (just a random suggestion, not how it would be)
You aporoach 20 investors and say. We have TM. We missed out on the play offs last season by a draw and a win.
Would you like to invest 50k.
If we are promoted in a year you will recieve 20% profit on your investment.
If we are not you lose the lot.
High rewards for high gambles

"We have TM" lol

dongonzalos · Sep 14, 2016

Nick said:
Why would they? They wouldn't get a return going into the championship, and if they then tried for the premier league you are talking loads of millions.

Who is going to just give that money away unless they are billionaires who can? Not people with investors on their case.

A bit random.

No a speculation bet

Grendel · Sep 14, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Are you sure about that?

Under the current owners absolutely and we won't get new owners with no assets.

dongonzalos · Sep 14, 2016

Grendel said:
"We have TM" lol

4 points off the play offs last season on what would be a smaller budget compared to, if the investors came on board

Grendel · Sep 14, 2016

dongonzalos said:
4 pints off the play offs last season on what would be a smaller budget if the investors came on board

And a history of failure from a position of strength - hugely attractive.

sbadey · Sep 15, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Sorry have I ignored your answer?
Thought you just asked a question?

If you don't mind posting it again, apologies for missing it.

Should we be one of the few clubs running at break even. If it means we are stuck at mid table in division 3?

Here's a question that is valid as it may lead to an answer as regards TMs budget Dongo, our admin charges are extremely high per anum, are similar league 1 clubs admin expenses the same? Can the club do anything to drastically reduce these admin expenses therefore freeing up fund for the manager to be more competetive with transfers etc?

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martcov · Sep 15, 2016

dongonzalos said:
No a pure investment. Not a debt loaded investment.
For example (just a random suggestion, not how it would be)
You aporoach 20 investors and say. We have TM. We missed out on the play offs last season by a draw and a win.
Would you like to invest 50k.
If we are promoted in a year you will recieve 20% profit on your investment.
If we are not you lose the lot.
High rewards for high gambles

20% is not a high reward in the case of if it goes wrong you end up with nothing within a year.

SISU did, in effect, do something like this when they bought us. Put their investors money in to get a chance at the premiere league.

Their money is probably lost forever. Maybe they get some back from a court case or a billionaire buys us. Unlikely though.

Somewhere about breakeven and being well managed on and off the field should be the first target.

As Nick says, that would make us more attractive to a potential buyer.

It does mean having to put up with lack of success for the time being.... Unless TM and Venus can get us moving on available funds.

I would stick at it and try and hold on to TM and Venus for another 2 years. We need stability on the field as I think we may be in for a rough ride off the field.

rupert_bear · Sep 15, 2016

Get the management of the team right. Point in question is Burton Albon, come through the leagues on a third of our gates and at the moment not disgracing themselves in the championship. Personally I don't think TM has got it right on the field, anywhere near right. I think he needs to sit down and remember what league he is in. We are too weak all round, especially in the middle of the park and as the winter month approach this will become clearer as for throwing money at the team, this is where you need investors/speculators which should be the sisu forte. They don't seem to be able to do that now. Unless all the above change a long stint in division three or lower will be the result.

christonabike · Sep 15, 2016

When you refer to "break even" does this include selling all your best players at the earliest opportunity? So basically we are destined for this league forever. Every team say Burton build a team over a few seasons, they get stronger and can cope with the odd player going where as we sell the Maddisons and the chap who went to Bradford for fook all and go back to square one over and over. There is something wrong somewhere where these players are sold season upon season just to "break even".
People want entertainment they arent book keepers wanking over figures and profit and loss columns and as we have started to see they are slowly walking away from the football club. We have been shit for years and even the die hards are finally looking for something else to do. We can be patient if you can see a team slowly being built up, getting better and better each year and watching the youngsters grow in experience but sadly it seems a blank canvas every year as players either get sold or go for free as they want to go to a team with ambition. This seems to be the case this season as players are reluctant to come here.
Break even yes but if it means more of what we are doing I for one will sadly find something to do next season as its just the same old shit year after year.

ricohroar · Sep 15, 2016

Nick said:
Who is slagging off the question? You are doing a bob latchford now.

You are as always

skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2016

Nick said:
Why would they? They wouldn't get a return going into the championship, and if they then tried for the premier league you are talking loads of millions.

Who is going to just give that money away unless they are billionaires who can? Not people with investors on their case.

A bit random.

If our income increased and we passed breakeven in the championship they could start paying back some of the interest we keep accruing on the not real debt. Probably won't happen though because the interest on the not real debt seems to be ring fencing the club from potential takeover rather than a means to earning of the debt. Possibly why SISU want us to run at breakeven also. Promotion doesn't fit in with their long term plan, whatever that may be. Easiest way to stop that happening? Run at breakeven. Possibly more likely that they'd be happier with relegation than promotion as the lesser of two evils to their long term plan, mid table is the plan and breakeven fits with that.

skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2016

Grendel said:
And a history of failure from a position of strength - hugely attractive.

Sums SISU's reign at the club up perfectly. Well done.

Nick · Sep 15, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
If our income increased and we passed breakeven in the championship they could start paying back some of the interest we keep accruing on the not real debt. Probably won't happen though because the interest on the not real debt seems to be ring fencing the club from potential takeover rather than a means to earning of the debt. Possibly why SISU want us to run at breakeven also. Promotion doesn't fit in with their long term plan, whatever that may be. Easiest way to stop that happening? Run at breakeven. Possibly more likely that they'd be happier with relegation than promotion as the lesser of two evils to their long term plan, mid table is the plan and breakeven fits with that.

Break even in the championship? Where is the extra revenue coming from?

Grendel · Sep 15, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
If our income increased and we passed breakeven in the championship they could start paying back some of the interest we keep accruing on the not real debt. Probably won't happen though because the interest on the not real debt seems to be ring fencing the club from potential takeover rather than a means to earning of the debt. Possibly why SISU want us to run at breakeven also. Promotion doesn't fit in with their long term plan, whatever that may be. Easiest way to stop that happening? Run at breakeven. Possibly more likely that they'd be happier with relegation than promotion as the lesser of two evils to their long term plan, mid table is the plan and breakeven fits with that.

We are not break even - we are miles from it. We will never be that in this division. I genuinely haven't a clue what you are saying. They'd get far more revenue by being promoted and wouldn't have to spend proportionately on wages.

I thought most of the debt you refer to was turned into equity

Grendel · Sep 15, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Sums SISU's reign at the club up perfectly. Well done.

We were in a position of strength when they took over? Ok.

skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2016

Nick said:
Break even in the championship? Where is the extra revenue coming from?

Extra Sponsorship, extra prize money, extra ticket receipts ect. Not going to happen though unless TM gets any team that breakeven can deliver to overachieve.

skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2016

Grendel said:
I genuinely haven't a clue.

Enough said.

Skyblueweeman · Sep 15, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Please don't talk about the the FFP rules as there are ways around them

I'm sorry, who are you...Jeremy Kyle?

People are allowed to talk about what they want. It's a forum after all isn't it???

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skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2016

Grendel said:
We were in a position of strength when they took over? Ok.

The position of strength was the initial investment when they arrived. Did that pay off? Why didn't it pay off? Was the failure who they invested in / trust with that investment? Is Tha not a history of failure from a position of strength?

Sky Blue Kid · Sep 15, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Question answered with a question
So nick do you think we should be one of the few clubs in the league to be run at break even, if that means we stay as a mid table divisions three side?

(Hopefully you will answer at some point)

By the way I hope for a billionaire as well

Someone else noticed too then!

Skyblueweeman · Sep 15, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Sums SISU's reign at the club up perfectly. Well done.

We've never had a position of strength apart from a warm day in 1987.

Oh, and last mid-November which we ballsed up (and you could argue that TM was at fault more than SISU).

To say SISU ballsed up a position of strength is ludicrous. They've ballsed up a shit position...nothing more positive than that...

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Bruce the Boot · Sep 15, 2016

Skyblueweeman said:
People are allowed to talk about what they want. It's a forum after all isn't it???

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless Nick and some of the other cronies on here decide thats not the case

skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2016

Skyblueweeman said:
We've never had a position of strength apart from a warm day in 1987.

Oh, and last mid-November which we ballsed up (and you could argue that TM was at fault more than SISU).

To say SISU ballsed up a position of strength is ludicrous. They've ballsed up a shit position...nothing more positive than that...

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The club and SISU have failed to capitalize on any position since SISU arrived. This has been for the main part down to poor decision making. We might not have been flying high when they arrived but lets not kid ourselves that there hasn't been opportunity to do better with what we've got at any point. They may have been little victories and only slightly improved our fortunes at each opportunity but nonetheless they failed to make gains from a position of strength and repeatedly. You could argue not investing in the team last January was one. The biggest one of course is failing to make an offer for a company that you have successfully devalued. (queue the "they would have taken it if they'd have been offered it for what Wasps offered" line to appear. Which is of course an assumption based on nothing.)

italiahorse · Sep 15, 2016

Nick said:
Ok so we get the 5 million, we then have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship.

How would people feel about sisu paying themselves back while we have one of the lowest wage budgets in the division?

The problem is that fans don't want to settle for L1 and break even like you.
They want Sisu to take a reasonable punt and hopefully then we all reap the benefits of existing in the Championship. Otherwise what is the point of owning this club?
As it is we are loosing more fans so the downward spiral will continue.
Wasps are a risk to us because of this mediocre football existence. The upcoming younger fans are having a better match day experience and because of that (and others) the future looks bleak.

Nick · Sep 15, 2016

italiahorse said:
The problem is that fans don't want to settle for L1 and break even like you.
They want Sisu to take a reasonable punt and hopefully then we all reap the benefits of existing in the Championship. Otherwise what is the point of owning this club?

They want people to throw money in, then they shout about wanting them to leave and write it all off. Then it will be the same for the next person.

There is no conveyor belt of people willing to throw money in and not expect it back is there?

It isn't "settling" it is being realistic isn't it?

We don't have any god given right to be a top end championship or even premier league club any more.

italiahorse · Sep 15, 2016

Bruce the Boot said:
Unless Nick and some of the other cronies on here decide thats not the case

I think they believe that once a CCFC fan you should just accept everything regardless. Interestly a lot of similar believers also went to Sixfields.

Bruce the Boot · Sep 15, 2016

Its not just about money , there has tobe stability , we have neither .

peeler · Sep 15, 2016

Nick said:
They want people to throw money in, then they shout about wanting them to leave and write it all off. Then it will be the same for the next person.

There is no conveyor belt of people willing to throw money in and not expect it back is there?

It isn't "settling" it is being realistic isn't it?

We don't have any god given right to be a top end championship or even premier league club any more.

Nick, reading a lot of you post I get the distinct impression that like me you aren't very optimistic about the future of Coventry City.

What enjoyment do you get from watching football?

Nick · Sep 15, 2016

peeler said:
What enjoyment do you get from watching football?

I look forward to every match, if we lose then it annoys me, if we win then it is completely different.

The same as it has been since I can remember.

dongonzalos · Sep 15, 2016

sbadey said:
Here's a question that is valid as it may lead to an answer as regards TMs budget Dongo, our admin charges are extremely high per anum, are similar league 1 clubs admin expenses the same? Can the club do anything to drastically reduce these admin expenses therefore freeing up fund for the manager to be more competetive with transfers etc?

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How much are the management/admin costs for running the club a year?

italiahorse · Sep 15, 2016

Nick said:
They want people to throw money in, then they shout about wanting them to leave and write it all off. Then it will be the same for the next person.

There is no conveyor belt of people willing to throw money in and not expect it back is there?

It isn't "settling" it is being realistic isn't it?

We don't have any god given right to be a top end championship or even premier league club any more.

Then fans will move on unfortunately.
If Sisu don't want promotion then why are they here?
Got to admire fans though that just support the team regardless but the facts remain that the fans will dwindle away.
Kids won't get hooked with mediocre and will go for razzmatazz.

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