Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (11 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

No uproar about her appointment in the media at all.

Little uproar in the media about the leaked Labour report which clearly shows antisemitism was being weaponised.
No uproar about the antisemitic cartoon sanctioned by George Osbourne.

It's almost as if people don't care about it any more. Strange that.

Seen this referenced a lot, haven’t read the report. What’s the bit about AS being weaponised?

 

---

[PVA]

Just reading about this on the BBC website and apparently many EU countries have too much PPE as a result of the scheme.

If that is true then there are serious questions to answer and heads should roll.

Of course neither of those things will happen, they'll just carry on as normal and no one will hold them to account, their 'fans' will defend them to the hilt and Boris will probably get a knighthood out of it.

 

[tisza]

Considering the symptomatic period is about 7 days what what I’ve read that two doctor thing seems to just be a way of not testing anyone until they’re really serious to keep numbers down.

Exactly.
Mandatory quarantine when 1st report is made. Enforced by the police visiting a couple of times a day.

New load of kit from China this morning which is apparently "guaranteed" quality. Implication being 1st lot was duff as continuing shortages of PPE and there wasn't any significant jump in testing despite there supposedly being over a million test kits in the 1st delivery .

 

[clint van damme]

Seen this referenced a lot, haven’t read the report. What’s the bit about AS being weaponised?

There's all sorts in there it's very damning.
But there's evidence of antisemitism complaints having evidence destroyed to slow them down so it looked like the party wasn't handling them correctly.

Evidence that Tom Watson colluded to delay livingstone been thrown out for a year so it reflected badly on Corbyn.

Complaints of antisemitism lodged by members from the left of the party ignored.
Complaints of racism ignored and racist language used in e mails.
These people are now in charge.

There's 800 pages so I've still got shitloads to read. Fairly sure they'll be some court cases arising from it.

Starmer issued a statement yesterday following a key that signed by several Mps from the left of the party demanding an investigation and expulsions.
The wording was very disappointing though. He seemed more concerned with how it leaked rather than the content.

To his credit, Corbyn never signed the letter but a lot of his allies did. At the end a lot of this happened on his watch.

I say a lot of this because some of the report pre dates Corbyn.
The most concerning thing is how many people on the right of the party resisted a plan by Andy Burnham to remove all privatisation from the NHS.
Maybe it's safer under Boris now he's had his epiphany than it would be under Starmer.

 

[tisza]

Just reading about this on the BBC website and apparently many EU countries have too much PPE as a result of the scheme.

Got a link please.
Know eastern European EU states have been getting donations from Germany but nothing much yet from EU. Definite PPE and ventilator shortages here, Romania, Slovakia and others.
Our media says EU stuff is at least 2 weeks away from arriving.

 

[shmmeee]

Strong correlation between time of lockdown and death count, same thread shows little relationship between population or population density (the more recent excuse from the right I’ve seen).

 

[Nick]

Sounds as though they volunteered which is ok I think.
Definitely fine to volunteer. Whether it's ok to do it at the firm you work for I'm.not sure

That's the bit I didn't know about. They are going into work still

 

[shmmeee]

There's all sorts in there it's very damning.
But there's evidence of antisemitism complaints having evidence destroyed to slow them down so it looked like the party wasn't handling them correctly.

Evidence that Tom Watson colluded to delay livingstone been thrown out for a year so it reflected badly on Corbyn.

Complaints of antisemitism lodged by members from the left of the party ignored.
Complaints of racism ignored and racist language used in e mails.
These people are now in charge.

There's 800 pages so I've still got shitloads to read. Fairly sure they'll be some court cases arising from it.

Starmer issued a statement yesterday following a key that signed by several Mps from the left of the party demanding an investigation and expulsions.
The wording was very disappointing though. He seemed more concerned with how it leaked rather than the content.

To his credit, Corbyn never signed the letter but a lot of his allies did. At the end a lot of this happened on his watch.

I say a lot of this because some of the report pre dates Corbyn.
The most concerning thing is how many people on the right of the party resisted a plan by Andy Burnham to remove all privatisation from the NHS.
Maybe it's safer under Boris now he's had his epiphany than it would be under Starmer.

I’ll have to read it. I will say I’ve seen the Tom Watson accusations and that’s not what’s actually in the quote I’ve seen. It’s someone saying that’s what they are accused of not that’s what they did. It’s shared as a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

Will have a look for the ignoring left wing AS accusations. It’s hard pulling out the serious stuff from the “people were mean in a private chat” stuff that seems to be getting people most excited.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Are you going to disagree with a poster that isn't me FP?

Just read what I said ffs.
The more series cases show the symptoms I mentioned, as clearly shortness of breath is something you'd want to seek medical advice on. Hence why they're the official advice.
I said the assertion that everybody (which suggests that there is no consistency at all in what symptoms people report) shows different symptoms is anecdotal and not clearly proven, especially as most of these people will be untested for COVID.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I think missed is a bit generous - turned down, ignored, thought it was beneath them is probably more accurate a description.

Not if you read the article

‘It is understood that officials in Whitehall only realised after those three rounds had been put out to tender that they had not received invitations to join the Joint Procurement Agreement steering committee where the orders are organised.

The UK only took part in its first meeting on joint procurement on 19 March after informing the commission that emails of invitation were being sent to an outdated address, the Guardian has learned.

Despite that belated show of interest, British officials did not attend a separate meeting of health officials on 25 March where participants were invited to spell out their requirements for future purchases to the commission by the next day’

Basically it looks like initially we weren’t even receiving the invitations and the first scheme failed. Then belatedly joint discussions on the next scheme just before the orders were placed

Also, the first deliveries might not come for another two weeks ?

I personally wouldve signed up to the scheme and just requested some random bulk numbers (if we didn’t know the actual requirements) of some key bits of PPE as you may as well end up with too much than too little but the article indicates it’s not as clear cut as the headline suggests.

If we are still running low in a week or two when the orders are likely to start to arrive then ministers/procurement team will be rightly questioned as to why they didn’t submit an order

 

[clint van damme]

I’ll have to read it. I will say I’ve seen the Tom Watson accusations and that’s not what’s actually in the quote I’ve seen. It’s someone saying that’s what they are accused of not that’s what they did. It’s shared as a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

Will have a look for the ignoring left wing AS accusations. It’s hard pulling out the serious stuff from the “people were mean in a private chat” stuff that seems to be getting people most excited.

Racism is people being mean?
And that's your default position on everything you don't agree with, it's a conspiracy theory.
There is a quote in there from Emillie Oldknow that clearly states Watson instigated delaying Livingstones expulsion.

If it's not true I would expect Watson to instigate legal action. Won't happen.

 

[PVA]

Just ignore Trump's pathetic response, but it would be really nice if any of our media had the balls to ask questions like this and not meekly accept whatever deflection of an answer they receive

 

[PVA]

Strong correlation between time of lockdown and death count, same thread shows little relationship between population or population density (the more recent excuse from the right I’ve seen).

I said that a couple of weeks ago when surprise surprise Grendel was saying we could discount how well certain countries have handled the crisis because they have a low population or low population density.

This virus spreads exponentially regardless of population size and density.

It's clear the only thing that affects and slows the spread is government intervention.

 

[shmmeee]

Racism is people being mean?
And that's your default position on everything you don't agree with, it's a conspiracy theory.
There is a quote in there from Emillie Oldknow that clearly states Watson instigated delaying Livingstones expulsion.

If it's not true I would expect Watson to instigate legal action. Won't happen.

OK mate.

Decide for yourself, here’s the quote about Watson:



She calls it a “crazy tale”, it’s not me calling it a conspiracy theory, it’s the person in the quote.

Again, I haven’t read the report. What I’ve seen on Twitter is people getting upset at someone calling someone else a “fat smelly cow” or something, not racism. I will read the report, I was just asking you as someone who had what you thought the worst bits were. Because it’s hard to find in amongst the people up in arms about what I’d term just mean comments.

TBH you’ve gone off the handle a bit here.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Racism is people being mean?
And that's your default position on everything you don't agree with, it's a conspiracy theory.
There is a quote in there from Emillie Oldknow that clearly states Watson instigated delaying Livingstones expulsion.

If it's not true I would expect Watson to instigate legal action. Won't happen.

In his defence (and I haven't got past skimming the first 70 pages, so yet to reach the meaty stuff! I still have work to do ) I suspect he means stuff like calling them 'trots' and the like rather than racism.

 

[PVA]

Some pretty grim reading as ONS release some statistics this morning:




Also in the week ending 3rd April, 21% of all national deaths were COVID-19 related.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Some good news this morning.

Princess Beatrice had to call her wedding off due to COVID19. She’s announced that the rearranged wedding next year will be much bigger, more extravagant and more expensive than originally planned, in order to raise the nation’s spirits and give us something to look forward to while we’re locked down.

 

[shmmeee]

In his defence (and I haven't got past skimming the first 70 pages, so yet to reach the meaty stuff! I still have work to do ) I suspect he means stuff like calling them 'trots' and the like rather than racism.

Im just being lazy. I’ve seen lots of heat and little light. The one serious accusation I’ve seen backed by a screenshot of the report is the Watson thing which for me doesn’t stack up to how it’s being reported and how CVD describes it. This naturally makes me want to see the source for the other serious accusations. The only other stuff I’ve seen online has been of the level of “trots” and “fat cow” so if there’s evidence of racism I’d like to see it.

As always if you’re not immediately outraged because you’re told to be you must be some nefarious actor.

 

[Ian1779]

OK mate.

Decide for yourself, here’s the quote about Watson:

View attachment 14847

She calls it a “crazy tale”, it’s not me calling it a conspiracy theory, it’s the person in the quote.

Again, I haven’t read the report. What I’ve seen on Twitter is people getting upset at someone calling someone else a “fat smelly cow” or something, not racism. I will read the report, I was just asking you as someone who had what you thought the worst bits were. Because it’s hard to find in amongst the people up in arms about what I’d term just mean comments.

TBH you’ve gone off the handle a bit here.

There is a lot of debate about this particular quote as there appears to be varying versions (whether the other version is a crop or from later on in the report I don’t know)

That said.... from the few bits I’ve read so far - misogyny, bullying and yes it would appear ‘racism’ (if not a total intolerance of MP’s or staff working from any ethnic background) is endemic.

To be honest - it’s a disgrace from top to bottom. As a fee paying member I did not sign up for my money to be used in this way.... pretty sure tens of thousands if not more feel the same.

 

[clint van damme]

OK mate.

Decide for yourself, here’s the quote about Watson:

View attachment 14847

She calls it a “crazy tale”, it’s not me calling it a conspiracy theory, it’s the person in the quote.

Again, I haven’t read the report. What I’ve seen on Twitter is people getting upset at someone calling someone else a “fat smelly cow” or something, not racism. I will read the report, I was just asking you as someone who had what you thought the worst bits were. Because it’s hard to find in amongst the people up in arms about what I’d term just mean comments.

TBH you’ve gone off the handle a bit here.

Apologies, you're right I have misread the quote but There's a plenty of worrying stuff in there.

However, referring directly to a black woman as pubehead is overtly racist and definitely beyond being mean.
I'm going off on one because the report is appalling. Starmer has a huge job on his hands to navigate the party through this.

For balance, in.my opinion, Corbyn doesn't come out well from what I've read. When you're head honcho you have to take responsibility for what happens during your tenure

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Im just being lazy. I’ve seen lots of heat and little light. The one serious accusation I’ve seen backed by a screenshot of the report is the Watson thing which for me doesn’t stack up to how it’s being reported and how CVD describes it. This naturally makes me want to see the source for the other serious accusations. The only other stuff I’ve seen online has been of the level of “trots” and “fat cow” so if there’s evidence of racism I’d like to see it.

As always if you’re not immediately outraged because you’re told to be you must be some nefarious actor.

There is an allegation head office secretly diverted money to back up the defensive campaigns of right leaning MPs in the 2017 election, rather than Corbyn's desire for going on the offensive in other seats. That's where I got to and, on the surface, that doesn't look great.

On the plus side, the new leader's a lawyer, so ought to be able to decipher things fairly well!

 

[clint van damme]

In his defence (and I haven't got past skimming the first 70 pages, so yet to reach the meaty stuff! I still have work to do ) I suspect he means stuff like calling them 'trots' and the like rather than racism.

Dawn Butler was referred to directly as pubehead.
There's also talk of shooting people and burning people.
Ok, that can go down as banter but is that how you should be talking about one lot of colleagues to another lot of colleagues? Especially in tradable communication.
I'll put my next reply in the leadership thread so not to take this thread off on another tangent.

 

[shmmeee]

There is a lot of debate about this particular quote as there appears to be varying versions (whether the other version is a crop or from later on in the report I don’t know)

That said.... from the few bits I’ve read so far - misogyny, intolerance and yes it would appear ‘racism’ (if not a total intolerance of MP’s or staff working from any ethnic background) is endemic.

To be honest - it’s a disgrace from top to bottom. As a fee paying member I did not sign up for my money to be used in this way.... pretty sure tens of thousands of not more few the same.

There’s two versions I’ve seen, that’s the full one, this is the edited one that appears elsewhere in the report:


Which is not a direct quote, but has been cut down and editorialised to make a point which having seen the full quote seems not generous to say the least.

And if that level of misreporting is happening then I want to see the source for the other stuff. Because a lot of it seems to boil down to “these people were mean, the person they’re mean about is a woman, therefore misogyny” or similar.

Frankly the news some parts of the party didn’t like each other isn’t a shocking revelation. Neither is the news that in private chats people are mean about co workers.

I’m more interested in evidence of actual things that were done to sabotage the party, otherwise it’s just another factional bun fight and I’ll ignore it like all the others.

 

[Ian1779]

Apologies, you're right I have misread the quote but There's a plenty of worrying stuff in there.

However, referring directly to a black woman as pubehead is overtly racist and definitely beyond being mean.
I'm going off on one because the report is appalling. Starmer has a huge job on his hands to navigate the party through this.

For balance, in.my opinion, Corbyn doesn't come out well from what I've read. When you're head honcho you have to take responsibility for what happens during your tenure

Yes when you head up an organisation you are culpable.... but when you are being directly undermined to the extent that is evident here.... and it being hidden from you for what reason??

I want to see people expelled, fired and maybe even sued here.

 

[shmmeee]

Dawn Butler was referred to directly as pubehead.
There's also talk of shooting people and burning people.
Ok, that can go down as banter but is that how you should be talking about one lot of colleagues to another lot of colleagues? Especially in tradable communication.
I'll put my next reply in the leadership thread so not to take this thread off on another tangent.

Again, just looked up the pube head thing and pro Corbyn blogs are reporting it as about Katy Clark and not Dawn Butler.

Very quickly we’re back to “colleagues shouldn’t be mean about other colleagues behind their back on private group chats”, are we seriously saying that if we leaked left wing group chats there wouldn’t be mean stuff about Blairites? Zarah Sultana publicly said she’d be happy to see Blair die for example. That’s just normal Labour infighting.

Don’t get me wrong. The fact it’s been leaked means those involved on both sides should be gone. I’d imagine their position is untenable for those in the chat and those that leaked the report unredacted have brought massive legal trouble onto the party and should be gone as well. If there’s any evidence of more serious actions then the full force of the law needs to be brought against them.

 

[Astute]

Just read what I said ffs.
The more series cases show the symptoms I mentioned, as clearly shortness of breath is something you'd want to seek medical advice on. Hence why they're the official advice.
I said the assertion that everybody (which suggests that there is no consistency at all in what symptoms people report) shows different symptoms is anecdotal and not clearly proven, especially as most of these people will be untested for COVID.

Read what you say?

Had enough of reading what you say. You are full of shit. Had enough of reading bullshit from you.

So why didn't you pull NW up? He said he knows someone who had the same symptoms as Boris. It got ignored by all of you with an agenda to character assassinate Boris. The worse thing is he doesn't need any help.

It also undeniably shows how you constantly attack posts from myself for no rea6sin. Just like I have said for years. You follow me around like a bad smell.

And worse of all this isn't a subject ti bullshit about. It has taken the lives of countless thousands of people. But you keep using it for point scoring.

Don't worry. Won't reply to any of your bullshit ever again.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

care homes are the biggest issue here, it’s horrible- it literally wipes out the whole place. They’re included in the deaths here (I think).

2099 care home facilities have had an outbreak. One can only guess at the number

 

[Astute]

Im just being lazy. I’ve seen lots of heat and little light. The one serious accusation I’ve seen backed by a screenshot of the report is the Watson thing which for me doesn’t stack up to how it’s being reported and how CVD describes it. This naturally makes me want to see the source for the other serious accusations. The only other stuff I’ve seen online has been of the level of “trots” and “fat cow” so if there’s evidence of racism I’d like to see it.

As always if you’re not immediately outraged because you’re told to be you must be some nefarious actor.

Racism is inexcusable.

But the problem we have is many take the piss. Call a white person a fat cow and it is OK. Call a black person a fat cow and they shout racism. Not only is it wrong but it creates problems trying to stamp out racism. It gives those with a racist agenda ammunition. It is as bad as those who counter racist remarks with saying their opponents or whatever it is are also racists so make out it isn't so bad.

It is a subject that shouldn't be used for point scoring. The sad thing is it is used frequently.

 

[Astute]

Some good news this morning.

Princess Beatrice had to call her wedding off due to COVID19. She’s announced that the rearranged wedding next year will be much bigger, more extravagant and more expensive than originally planned, in order to raise the nation’s spirits and give us something to look forward to while we’re locked down.

The NHS is badly underfunded. It has led to the deaths of many. So to cheer us up a nobody from the royal family will have an extravagant wedding?

FFS all sense of realism has evaporated.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Read what you say?

Had enough of reading what you say. You are full of shit. Had enough of reading bullshit from you.

So why didn't you pull NW up? He said he knows someone who had the same symptoms as Boris. It got ignored by all of you with an agenda to character assassinate Boris. The worse thing is he doesn't need any help.

It also undeniably shows how you constantly attack posts from myself for no rea6sin. Just like I have said for years. You follow me around like a bad smell.

And worse of all this isn't a subject ti bullshit about. It has taken the lives of countless thousands of people. But you keep using it for point scoring.

Don't worry. Won't reply to any of your bullshit ever again.

Good, I can't be arsed conversing with you either you petulant child.

 

[clint van damme]

5live with a big report on the care home situation
Heart breaking what's happening.

 

[shmmeee]

Racism is inexcusable.

But the problem we have is many take the piss. Call a white person a fat cow and it is OK. Call a black person a fat cow and they shout racism. Not only is it wrong but it creates problems trying to stamp out racism. It gives those with a racist agenda ammunition. It is as bad as those who counter racist remarks with saying their opponents or whatever it is are also racists so make out it isn't so bad.

It is a subject that shouldn't be used for point scoring. The sad thing is it is used frequently.

What I’ve seen is there’s generally two “levels” of racism, one everyone agrees is racism (calling black people w*gs or Asians p**i for example), and one more subtle that people argue over and seems to expand and contract based on who committed it. Stuff like calling a black woman ugly for (a bad) example, I’ve seen people say “that plays into the stereotypes of black women being ugly and therefore is racist” and others say “I’d call them ugly whatever their skin colour so it’s not racism”.

Similarly the slippery slope argument around say “you can’t say Islam has an issue with terrorism because then you’re saying all followers of Islam are terrorists”.

This second form is more nebulous to define and can be very much “I know it when I see it” which makes the rules harder to know ahead of time and feel unfair.

It’s interesting as a white guy to sit and pontificate about, it’s nice to have that luxury, but very hard for those that are definitely feeing prejudice with no clear way to explain why.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

 

[PVA]

It's a good job that the government turned down the offer of 5,000 ready sourced ventilators in favour of asking Dyson and JCB - two big Tory donors - to make some for them.

Oh wait.




Fucking scandalous.

Yet still people defend them.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No uproar about her appointment in the media at all.

Little uproar in the media about the leaked Labour report which clearly shows antisemitism was being weaponised.
No uproar about the antisemitic cartoon sanctioned by George Osbourne.

It's almost as if people don't care about it any more. Strange that.

Because it did it’s job and they now need to find a fresh straw man to take down Starmer in 2024