Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (196 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

She’s a disgrace after the grooming scandal.
Should be nowhere near politics.
What excuse do you lefties have for her,Your just blinkered by ideology.You need to convince the electorate and try and win elections.Its over 40 years since a proper Labour Party won and as you say Blair’s wasn’t a proper labour win. Smell the coffee!!!
I want to vote labour but this has put me off.

I can understand why... am I therefore right in assuming that you would equally never vote Conservative seeing as their entire party have endorsed a rampantly anti-semitic leader in Orban, and equally never ever vote for a party that was complicit in the covering up of the heinous paedophilic acts of a certain Jimmy Saville...

For balance and all that....

 

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[Ring Of Steel]

I can understand why... am I therefore right in assuming that you would equally never vote Conservative seeing as their entire party have endorsed a rampantly anti-semitic leader in Orban, and equally never ever vote for a party that was complicit in the covering up of the heinous paedophilic acts of a certain Jimmy Saville...

For balance and all that....

I have no idea who woman is, but fuck me how anyone on the ‘right’ side of things can take any kind of moral high ground when it comes to endorsing pretty nasty things, it’s pretty staggering. I can only assume that they get so sick and tired of the distasteful things they do & say being brought up that the second they see a chance for some tit-for-tat “yeah but look at him/her!” type shenanigans that they jump all over it.

 

[Sick Boy]

UK missed three chances to join EU scheme to bulk-buy PPE

 

[Ian1779]

UK missed three chances to join EU scheme to bulk-buy PPE

I think missed is a bit generous - turned down, ignored, thought it was beneath them is probably more accurate a description.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I can understand why... am I therefore right in assuming that you would equally never vote Conservative seeing as their entire party have endorsed a rampantly anti-semitic leader in Orban, and equally never ever vote for a party that was complicit in the covering up of the heinous paedophilic acts of a certain Jimmy Saville...

For balance and all that....

Wurzel missed the Evening Standard cartoon of Ed Miliband the other day as well, that's the ES which is edited by one Gideon Osborne

 

[shmmeee]

Oh the old racist bollocks,Fook off mate any decent person would never like a tweet like that grow up.

Mate. I’ve liked all kinds of tweets by accident or liked stuff I haven’t read properly. It’s social media not a court case. I wouldn’t take it for either side based off one incident alone. I said the same when some Tory councillor tweeted something silly. It happens. To think she seriously hates rape victims or whatever is just ridiculous.

As I say, far more concerning are her interactions with antisemitism IMO.

Edit: I’d also agree the left has been overly squeamish in tackling issues in Muslim communities. I just don’t think this is a smoking gun on that.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I think missed is a bit generous - turned down, ignored, thought it was beneath them is probably more accurate a description.

Taking back control, apparently no matter what the death count.

 

[shmmeee]

It's well known that the 11k current mortality rate only includes those dying in hospital. I reckon the real rate is 15k+

What are we counting in this rate? Covid as main cause? Covid positive when dead? Deaths that wouldn’t have occurred if no Covid?

The latter is going to be huge. Saw a graphic posted by a doctor showing secondary impacts on those that have had care cut or routine surgeries etc delayed that will die earlier, those that die because of overstretched health care, those whose healths deteriorated due to isolation or unemployment, the non Covid deaths outweighed the Covid deaths. We could be looking at double or triple the final figures once all is said and done. We’ll definitely blow past the 20k target on Covid deaths alone looking at our current figures and curve.

 

[Astute]

I'm going to take a wild guess that members of the forum that might have had it but showed no symptoms weren't in intensive care for 3 days.

Why dies anybody bother saying anything on here unless they are looking for an argument?

It is a well proven fact that everyone gets affected by this virus in a different way. About the only fact we do have to hand.

Why didn't you quote the part where I asked if the NHS staff that treated him were in on the conspiracy? Yes. Because it doesn't go with the point you are trying to put across.

 

[Astute]

So a point scoring excersise rather than any genuine concern for the victims?

The majority of posts on this thread are all about point scoring.

 

[David O'Day]

Wurzel missed the Evening Standard cartoon of Ed Miliband the other day as well, that's the ES which is edited by one Gideon Osborne

Ah the cartoon that drew a jewish man with a stereotypical antisemitic hooked nose.

He's labour though so the right don't care about antisemitic abuse towards him

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Astute]

I’m not looking for a conspiracy - it was merely something that kept bugging me so I thought I’d float the idea, see what other people thought... on a discussion forum.

And all I did was reply to you....on a discussion forum. Not one proper reply but yet more allegations made.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What are we counting in this rate? Covid as main cause? Covid positive when dead? Deaths that wouldn’t have occurred if no Covid?

The latter is going to be huge. Saw a graphic posted by a doctor showing secondary impacts on those that have had care cut or routine surgeries etc delayed that will die earlier, those that die because of overstretched health care, those whose healths deteriorated due to isolation or unemployment, the non Covid deaths outweighed the Covid deaths. We could be looking at double or triple the final figures once all is said and done. We’ll definitely blow past the 20k target on Covid deaths alone looking at our current figures and curve.

Anything in hospital is anything with covid on the death certificate AFAIK. A death cert has causes 1a, 1b and 1c so it needs to be mentioned as one of those. In some countries I believe they're counting any deaths that include pneumonia on the cert too.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Why dies anybody bother saying anything on here unless they are looking for an argument?

It is a well proven fact that everyone gets affected by this virus in a different way. About the only fact we do have to hand.

Why didn't you quote the part where I asked if the NHS staff that treated him were in on the conspiracy? Yes. Because it doesn't go with the point you are trying to put across.

It isn't a "well proven fact" that everyone gets affected in a different way, it's anecdotal even if true. The WHO and UK Gov both advise that the main symptoms are:

fever

tiredness

dry cough

 

[chiefdave]

It is a well proven fact that everyone gets affected by this virus in a different way. About the only fact we do have to hand.

Of course it affects people different but that doesn't make it a valid comparison between someone who had no symptoms to the point they weren't even aware they had it and someone who was in ICU for three days in a life threatening condition. Johnson himself said "it could have gone either way".

A week ago if anyone suggested the possibility that the severity of Johnson's condition might be being exaggerated to avoid scrutiny of his performance personally and the government as a whole they were called every name imaginable. Now a week later if anyone questions why he's been released from hospital only 48 hours after leaving ICU and recording video messages like nothing has happened its claimed Johnson was only in as a precautionary measure. Not hard to see why some people are asking questions.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Of course it affects people different but that doesn't make it a valid comparison between someone who had no symptoms to the point they weren't even aware they had it and someone who was in ICU for three days in a life threatening condition. Johnson himself said "it could have gone either way".

A week ago if anyone suggested the possibility that the severity of Johnson's condition might be being exaggerated to avoid scrutiny of his performance personally and the government as a whole they were called every name imaginable. Now a week later if anyone questions why he's been released from hospital only 48 hours after leaving ICU and recording video messages like nothing has happened its claimed Johnson was only in as a precautionary measure. Not hard to see why some people are asking questions.

The Johnson story makes no sense, nothing in it adds up and skepticism towards what you're told by a proven liar is natural and healthy.

 

[chiefdave]

I’ve criticised her on several occasions. She’s just a nightmare. She’s clearly an anti Semite - she admitted her language was and anyone who allows her to brag she’s now on the front bench I have no sympathy

You would think with all the accusations thrown around in the last few years that Starmers team would be closely vetting who was being appointed to prominent roles and avoiding, at least for the time being, anyone who accusations of anti-semitism could be thrown at.

Yet someone they have decided its a good idea to appoint Reeves and Shah. There's also now the issue that, given the report that has been leaked, if there is silence on these two appointments from those who have been so vocal in the last few years its going to look slightly suspicious.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I don't think the true cost in terms of lives will be known until long after the virus has gone/calmed right down. We should be looking at any death over and above the normal rate expected over any 12 month period. Anything that includes operations put back, people not able to access support etc. should be counted into the total as it gives us a clear indication of what happens when we encounter a pandemic.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Also, I don't know why you all seem to love arguing with Grendel so much. Sometimes he makes some going points but he is on here simply to get into arguments about anything and spin away as long as he can get away with. Just ignore him.

 

[chiefdave]

I don't think the true cost in terms of lives will be known until long after the virus has gone/calmed right down. We should be looking at any death over and above the normal rate expected over any 12 month period.

That's going to be the best indicator IMO but it could be months until we get to see those sort of figures.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Of course it affects people different but that doesn't make it a valid comparison between someone who had no symptoms to the point they weren't even aware they had it and someone who was in ICU for three days in a life threatening condition. Johnson himself said "it could have gone either way".

A week ago if anyone suggested the possibility that the severity of Johnson's condition might be being exaggerated to avoid scrutiny of his performance personally and the government as a whole they were called every name imaginable. Now a week later if anyone questions why he's been released from hospital only 48 hours after leaving ICU and recording video messages like nothing has happened its claimed Johnson was only in as a precautionary measure. Not hard to see why some people are asking questions.

It’s the “it could have gone either way” stuff, knowing what we know about this virus had he been taken that close to death then he wouldn’t be out within 48 hours. The problem is though that the man is such a pathological bullshitter and conman that it’s impossible to separate fact from fiction anywhere down the line. Who wouldn’t ask questions with his track record? I’m glad he’s well but my god he’s some liar, and who knows what the actual truth is of how seriously ill he was, and there is nothing wrong in asking.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Also, I don't know why you all seem to love arguing with Grendel so much. Sometimes he makes some going points but he is on here simply to get into arguments about anything and spin away as long as he can get away with. Just ignore him.

He also loves the attention, your assessment is a very valid one.

 

[Astute]

It isn't a "well proven fact" that everyone gets affected in a different way, it's anecdotal even if true. The WHO and UK Gov both advise that the main symptoms are:

fever

tiredness

dry cough

Kenny Dalglish didn't have any symptoms. Others die. How much difference does there have to be before some will admit it affects people differently?

 

[Astute]

It isn't a "well proven fact" that everyone gets affected in a different way, it's anecdotal even if true. The WHO and UK Gov both advise that the main symptoms are:

fever

tiredness

dry cough

Of course it affects people different

Are you going to disagree with a poster that isn't me FP?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Kenny Dalglish didn't have any symptoms. Others die. How much difference does there have to be before some will admit it affects people differently?

Maybe he means that if you do get symptoms then it’s generally accepted what they are- if you do show them they seem to follow a similar pattern- cough, fever, headache, loss of taste & smell, tiredness then as it progresses a deteriorating ability to get your breath. But if you’re one of the lucky ones like Kenny Dalglish who doesn’t have any symptoms then obviously you’re not going to have any of those.

 

[Astute]

It isn't a "well proven fact" that everyone gets affected in a different way, it's anecdotal even if true. The WHO and UK Gov both advise that the main symptoms are:

fever

tiredness

dry cough

A mate of mine's brother had a very similar trajectory to Johnson, tbf.

How about NW? You didn't pull him up on this post?

 

[Astute]

It’s the “it could have gone either way” stuff, knowing what we know about this virus had he been taken that close to death then he wouldn’t be out within 48 hours. The problem is though that the man is such a pathological bullshitter and conman that it’s impossible to separate fact from fiction anywhere down the line. Who wouldn’t ask questions with his track record? I’m glad he’s well but my god he’s some liar, and who knows what the actual truth is of how seriously ill he was, and there is nothing wrong in asking.

So the NHS staff are all part of a conspiracy to make Boris out to be some kind of hero?

This thread is getting past silly now. Truth is out of the window. Yet Boris isn't to be trusted because he can be untruthful.....

 

[Astute]

You would think with all the accusations thrown around in the last few years that Starmers team would be closely vetting who was being appointed to prominent roles and avoiding, at least for the time being, anyone who accusations of anti-semitism could be thrown at.

Yet someone they have decided its a good idea to appoint Reeves and Shah. There's also now the issue that, given the report that has been leaked, if there is silence on these two appointments from those who have been so vocal in the last few years its going to look slightly suspicious.

And I don't get the dislike of Starmer. Is he not left enough for some?

When Corbyn was leader I was supposed to support him 100% because he was the Labour leader. Corbyn has gone. Next leader is in. Those saying the leader of the Labour party should be supported 100% do not support the Labour party leader 100%. They are making constant digs and accusations against him.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So the NHS staff are all part of a conspiracy to make Boris out to be some kind of hero?

This thread is getting past silly now. Truth is out of the window. Yet Boris isn't to be trusted because he can be untruthful.....

Not at all, I don’t think him saying “it could have gone either way” can be completely accurate, that’s nothing to do with the NHS staff or a conspiracy. Just doesn’t seem to stack up, that’s all. One minute he’s only in ICU as a precaution, next he’s in danger of dying, next thing he’s out of ICU in 2 days and testing negative.

 

[Astute]

Maybe he means that if you do get symptoms then it’s generally accepted what they are- if you do show them they seem to follow a similar pattern- cough, fever, headache, loss of taste & smell, tiredness then as it progresses a deteriorating ability to get your breath. But if you’re one of the lucky ones like Kenny Dalglish who doesn’t have any symptoms then obviously you’re not going to have any of those.

So why didn't he have a go at NW?

Then I am supposed to be paranoid about certain people on here constantly having a go at posts of mine. Yet they ignore others that say the same as me. It is clear for everyone to see. But of course it will be twisted as usual.

 

[Astute]

Not at all, I don’t think him saying “it could have gone either way” can be completely accurate, that’s nothing to do with the NHS staff or a conspiracy. Just doesn’t seem to stack up, that’s all. One minute he’s only in ICU as a precaution and not in need of a ventilator, next he’s in danger of dying, next thing he’s out in 2 days.

So a friend's brother of NW had the same as Boris. Why didn't you or the others make any sort of comment?

And he wasn't out in 2 days.

We could do with 2 virus politics threads. One fir those if you who want to make political points and ignore the truth and another for the rest of us.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So why didn't he have a go at NW?

Then I am supposed to be paranoid about certain people on here constantly having a go at posts of mine. Yet they ignore others that say the same as me. It is clear for everyone to see. But of course it will be twisted as usual.

look I don’t know and I’m not having a go at you- and don’t take things to heart, it’s a madhouse in here at the moment.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So a friend's brother of NW had the same as Boris. Why didn't you or the others make any sort of comment?

And he wasn't out in 2 days.

We could do with 2 virus politics threads. One fir those if you who want to make political points and ignore the truth and another for the rest of us.

If these threads were split down every time they went off at a tangent then we’d end up with about 2,000 of them

 

[Astute]

look I don’t know and I’m not having a go at you- and don’t take things to heart, it’s a madhouse in here at the moment.

Not taking it to heart. Just stating facts.

 

[Astute]

If these threads were split down every time they went off at a tangent then we’d end up with about 2,000 of them

So why didn't you pull NW up?

Good question?

Or am I easier to disagree with because others always do?