Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (13 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

So large scale construction projects increases consumer spending - short medium or long term? How does that revive say the service economy or manufacturing not related to construction? Why the abuse?

Yes because they can increase employment which increases disposable income.

The abuse is because you are lying about what I have said 2 posts above yours.

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[Grendel]

No you dense c**t, you don't know what it is.

You're fucking done here.



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You sound like Donald Trump In those tricky press conferences David

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m asking how you do it under these circumstances and specific strategies David that could be implemented without even more personal consumer debt? Or are you advocating more debt?

Funnily enough we were balancing the books last night at home and we’re expecting to be about £700 better of at the end of the month than usual. Obviously some people are going to be furloughed and sadly others have lost their jobs but some people are possibly, that’s possibly going to come out of this with some expendable income they wouldn’t otherwise have had. Clearly a way to go yet, I may get furloughed before things return to normal, might even lose my job, don’t know what our utility bills will end up being and as a household we’re definitely using more electricity. But your assumption that everyone will have to take on debt to spend to stimulate the economy is premature. The thing about not doing anything is that you’re also not spending anything.

 

[Johhny Blue]

Don't think any country can have too much PPE.

We're lucky in Alberta. We have a current surplus and are helping to supply all of the other provinces.

 

[David O'Day]

No more trying to you grenners as you just lie.

Goodbye stay safe

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[David O'Day]

Funnily enough we were balancing the books last night at home and we’re expecting to be about £700 better of at the end of the month than usual. Obviously some people are going to be furloughed and sadly others have lost their jobs but some people are possibly, that’s possibly going to come out of this with some expendable income. Clearly a way to go yet, I may get furloughed before things return to normal, might even lose my job, don’t know what our utility bills will end up being and as a household we’re definitely using more electricity. But your assumption that everyone will have to take on debt to spend to stimulate the economy is premature. The thing about not doing anything is that you’re also not spending anything.

His assumption is based on him not k owing what the paradox of thrift is.

We are talking about government spending creating more disposable income which then increases demand.

There is not increasing of personal debt.

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[Grendel]

Yes because they can increase employment which increases disposable income.

The abuse is because you are lying about what I have said 2 posts above yours.

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How are construction projects going to stimulate in then short or medium term and what about the massive majority not involved in this chain of employment and how will their spend sufficiently grow the economy

 

[Johhny Blue]

Back to your echo chamber. Seems anyone who disagrees with you goes onto ignore?

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It's just a "Pretend Ignore"

 

[Grendel]

His assumption is based on him not k owing what the paradox of thrift is.

We are talking about government spending creating more disposable income which then increases demand.

There is not increasing of personal debt.

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you’ve identified one area construction. - how will that stimulate spending across a broader society when output and consumer confidence are at record lows?

Ive also asked for recent incidents where this has been successful in overcoming this set of circumstances and which countries you believe will embark on such a programme

Answer the questions David

 

[shmmeee]

How are construction projects going to stimulate in then short or medium term and what about the massive majority not involved in this chain of employment and how will their spend sufficiently grow the economy

There are things to spend money on. Grocery shopping, online services, online shopping are all up under lockdown. The problem is we’ve put a million people out of a job and they can’t spend on these things to employ others. If you hire them and pay them they have money to spend and other industries thrive.

This is very very basic economics.

 

[Johhny Blue]

No more trying to you grenners as you just lie.

Goodbye stay safe

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That was a four minute run. Did you get the full mile in?

 

[David O'Day]

If anyone wants to laugh at greeners here's what the paradox of thrift is:

Paradox of thrift - Wikipedia

It's not anything you implement so this is another easy win for me

 

[covmark]

It's just a "Pretend Ignore"

Evidently

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[Grendel]

There are things to spend money on. Grocery shopping, online services, online shopping are all up under lockdown. The problem is we’ve put a million people out of a job and they can’t spend on these things to employ others. If you hire them and pay them they have money to spend and other industries thrive.

This is very very basic economics.

If it’s oh so simple then every country will leave this with no worries.- there is of course a small matter of colloidal debt. Initial lower taxation to fund public services no consumer confidence and businesses having to reform with huge credit issues or restart altogether or disappear.

It’s really far from basic economics. Didn’t the Great Depression take decades to recover from

Most people in this country are already saddled with consumer credit they may go on a short term spending sores but generations to come will pay a very heavy probe if this carries on for very long

 

[skybluetony176]

His assumption is based on him not k owing what the paradox of thrift is.

We are talking about government spending creating more disposable income which then increases demand.

There is not increasing of personal debt.

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In the US it was called The New Deal and was a mechanism for escaping The Great Depression and included everything from legalising alcohol and building the Hoover dam. Might see marijuana legalised in this country afterall. It helped stimulate local economies in the US.

 

[David O'Day]

There are things to spend money on. Grocery shopping, online services, online shopping are all up under lockdown. The problem is we’ve put a million people out of a job and they can’t spend on these things to employ others. If you hire them and pay them they have money to spend and other industries thrive.

This is very very basic economics.

Exactly it is GCSE level. If the government spends money on job creation it means more people have income to spend and as you said online retail is booming. This idea goes back to the great depression and FDRs new deal so I'm not sure why the great mind of Grendel hasn't heard of this before.

You can also look at things such as directing QE to the general public in the form of universal income. This once again would put money into peoples pockets to spend.

Going back to spending on job creation this also has the bonus of helping to reduce job discretionary government spending by reducing the number of benefits claims.

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[shmmeee]

If it’s oh so simple then every country will leave this with no worries.- there is of course a small matter of colloidal debt. Initial lower taxation to fund public services no consumer confidence and businesses having to reform with huge credit issues or restart altogether or disappear.

It’s really far from basic economics. Didn’t the Great Depression take decades to recover from

Most people in this country are already saddled with consumer credit they may go on a short term spending sores but generations to come will pay a very heavy probe if this carries on for very long

Sorry but most of this is just word salad. And you’re still on about consumer debt when I’ve just said government spending to avoid consumer debt.

The Great Depression was a classic example of how to get out of a depression using stimulus spending, that’s what Roosevelt’s New Deal was! And no recovery took around 5 years, starting with the New Deal stimulus spending.

You’re trying to use the greatest example of the efficacy of Keynesian economics to disprove Keynesian economics!

 

[David O'Day]

In the US it was called The New Deal and was a mechanism for escaping The Great Depression and included everything from legalising alcohol and building the Hoover dam. Might see marijuana legalised in this country afterall. It helped stimulate local economies in the US.

Yep, just mentioned this strangely enough.

It's not even radical thinking.

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[David O'Day]

Sorry but most of this is just word salad. And you’re still on about consumer debt when I’ve just said government spending to avoid consumer debt.

The Great Depression was a classic example of how to get out of a depression using stimulus spending, that’s what Roosevelt’s New Deal was! And no recovery took around 5 years, starting with the New Deal stimulus spending.

You’re trying to use the greatest example of the efficacy of Keynesian economics to disprove Keynesian economics!

He really has no idea what he is talking about

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[skybluetony176]

How are construction projects going to stimulate in then short or medium term and what about the massive majority not involved in this chain of employment and how will their spend sufficiently grow the economy

Major infrastructure projects last years, sometimes decades. Look at Crossrail, Thames Tideway Scheme, HS2. Some long term socialist investment on a national scale is what’s needed.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

I would think the UK is more likely to be 5/6 weeks away but with some sort of return to work within that time for certain types of jobs.

Good news on the total cases today wasn’t it Mate, wasn’t it the lowest it’s been in a month?

 

[David O'Day]

Major infrastructure projects last years, sometimes decades. Look at Crossrail, Thames Tideway Scheme, HS2. Some long term socialist investment on a national scale is what’s needed.

What he doesn't get is the money created in wages then is spent inthe wider economy boosting that as well meaning that expands as well creating more jobs.

This is economics 101

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[Grendel]

Sorry but most of this is just word salad. And you’re still on about consumer debt when I’ve just said government spending to avoid consumer debt.

The Great Depression was a classic example of how to get out of a depression using stimulus spending, that’s what Roosevelt’s New Deal was! And no recovery took around 5 years, starting with the New Deal stimulus spending.

You’re trying to use the greatest example of the efficacy of Keynesian economics to disprove Keynesian economics!

No I’m really not again this is economic theory against reality - the depression and the subsequent building works were in a long ago time l - I know of several manufacturing businesses that are going under. I know of one business that’s employed people for over 30 years and had never laid people off in any economic downturn. Now it has had to and money is not coming in from creditors and fine costs have to be paid. It’s abnormally cash rich but will close in ten weeks time if this isn’t resolved due to associate product lags

we now line in a global much more service aligned economy and have debt mountains that you could never have imagined at that time - many European countries now have debt of 140% of its GDP

Perhaps you should write to the leaders and say this is basic economics lads and here’s a Great Plan. If it’s that simple I’d guess they’ve thought of it

You are the guy whose always been pretty kind of flippant about the debt haven’t you? I think? Your in my view in for a shock as this if it carries on will be with generations for a very king time

I am fascinated though if it’s basic textbook economics whose going to do what and how these dead business and all their supplies will just wake up Bobby Ewing style and it’s all a dream

 

[skybluetony176]

No I’m really not again this is economic theory against reality - the depression and the subsequent building works were in a long ago time l - I know of several manufacturing businesses that are going under. I know of one business that’s employed people for over 30 years and had never laid people off in any economic downturn. Now it has had to and money is not coming in from creditors and fine costs have to be paid. It’s abnormally cash rich but will close in ten weeks time if this isn’t resolved due to associate product lags

we now line in a global much more service aligned economy and have debt mountains that you could never have imagined at that time - many European countries now have debt of 140% of its GDP

Perhaps you should write to the leaders and say this is basic economics lads and here’s a Great Plan. If it’s that simple I’d guess they’ve thought of it

You are the guy whose always been pretty kind of flippant about the debt haven’t you? I think? Your in my view in for a shock as this if it carries on will be with generations for a very king time

I am fascinated though if it’s basic textbook economics whose going to do what and how these dead business and all their supplies will just wake up Bobby Ewing style and it’s all a dream

You do understand that the Great Depression was a worldwide depression? It’s effects on manufacturing was devastating.

 

[Grendel]

@shmmeee I’m not even being funny I’m genuinely interested why you think this is not the biggest crises in a century. I know many business owners and they think prior recessions are an utter blast compared to this

 

[David O'Day]

You do understand that the Great Depression was a worldwide depression? It’s effects on manufacturing was devastating.

He genuinely does not understand

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[Grendel]

He genuinely does not understand

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David and Tony the world has moved on from 1930’s economics and oddly the world now isn’t just manufacturing and even the most optimistic view then was a recovery within 5 years.

I do hope though that the likes of Johnson, Merkle, Macron etc are looking at this forum as they will be far more boosted by this and I’m sure will be ignoring those pesky economists and forecasters as we have Dave and Tone to solve everything with their stimulus plan. Trump may even mention you as “guys who know what they are taking about” in his next press conference

 

[David O'Day]

It's still mainstream economics you fucking clown. It's still used today.

So you know fuck all about economics, we get that.



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[skybluetony176]

David and Tony the world has moved on from 1930’s economics and oddly the world now isn’t just manufacturing and even the most optimistic view then was a recovery within 5 years.

I do hope though that the likes of Johnson, Merkle, Macron etc are looking at this forum as they will be far more boosted by this and I’m sure will be ignoring those pesky economists and forecasters as we have Dave and Tone to solve everything with their stimulus plan. Trump may even mention you as “guys who know what they are taking about” in his next press conference

Who said it was just manufacturing. You are aware of the Great Depression? You are aware of Roosevelts New Deal? Are you aware of how multifaceted it was? It included everything from banking to infrastructure to an end of prohibition.

 

[David O'Day]

Who said it was just manufacturing. You are aware of the Great Depression? You are aware of Roosevelts New Deal? Are you aware of how multifaceted it was? It included everything from banking to infrastructure to an end of prohibition.

Mate he is an idiot.

I've seen u-bends sharper than him.

Just point and laugh at him.

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Strong correlation between time of lockdown and death count, same thread shows little relationship between population or population density (the more recent excuse from the right I’ve seen).

By the looks of it he says the metric used for pop density is number of major dense urban areas. I find this flawed. What if you have a large percentage of your population living quite rurally with one or two absolutely heaving metroplii? Of course there will be no correlation.

For that it needs to be looked at at a smaller scale, such as comparing different major cities to each other and against rural areas.Look at the UK graph. London top. WM second, NW third. Bottom is Devon and Cornwall. Who'd have thunk it.

If pop density has no effect why is social distancing such an important factor? If people live in high rises with shared entrances (which is going to massively affect pop density) it greatly increases the chance of infection.

 

[David O'Day]

Who said it was just manufacturing. You are aware of the Great Depression? You are aware of Roosevelts New Deal? Are you aware of how multifaceted it was? It included everything from banking to infrastructure to an end of prohibition.

Strangely he mentions trump but they have already had 1 round of a universal income as I mentioned earlier. Once again he doesn't even know what he is talking about.

Come on grenners ask us again how me would implement the paradox of thrift. That was pure comedy gold.

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[David O'Day]

By the looks of it he says the metric used for pop density is number of major dense urban areas. I find this flawed. What if you have a large percentage of your population living quite rurally with one or two absolutely heaving metroplii? Of course there will be no correlation.

For that it needs to be looked at at a smaller scale, such as comparing different major cities to each other and against rural areas.Look at the UK graph. London top. WM second, NW third. Bottom is Devon and Cornwall. Who'd have thunk it.

If pop density has no effect why is social distancing such an important factor? If people live in high rises with shared entrances (which is going to massively affect pop density) it greatly increases the chance of infection.

His whole graphs are flawed and seem to me to be created to prove a conclusion

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[skybluetony176]

Mate he is an idiot.

I've seen u-bends sharper than him.

Just point and laugh at him.

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I’m not actually sure what he thinks we should do other than a major stimulus package. That might be interesting if he can tell us what he thinks should happen because at the moment it seems to be sit around in the dark.

 

[Grendel]

It's still mainstream economics you fucking clown. It's still used today.

So you know fuck all about economics, we get that.



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As is the ability to devalue currency. I honestly think we should have a petition to get David as chancellor with Tony as his civil servant. Are you better qualified than the chancellor and yes I’m sure Mr trump would believe you which is why I mentioned him.