clint van damme
Well-Known Member
we all know the tories are failing badly yet Johnsons approval ratings are sky high?
And back yet again to relying on the media to put the truthful account over for no reply to come back.
We all know the Tories are failing badly. So they won't reply until they have to. This is why I am waiting a few more days. It isn't as though the 21st is a long way off.
And I hope you are happy then. Because I have a feeling you won't be happy whatever happens.
And yet again you say things should happen. But when I ask you about the details you say it doesn't matter about the details.
You seem to want Starmer to solve the problems that have gone on in the Labour party for years in just a few days without any evidence. Don't you think they should look at evidence first or should be suspended about half of the party as some sort of allegation has been made?
Point missed completely. You're so entrenched in your opinions you wont listen to a neutral. Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.
If you couldn't get behind Corbyn for me, why should i get behind Starmer for you.As I said earlier if they can vote Boris in they could vote anyone in.
I am more concerned with what is happening with my own party. I have been urging people to get behind Startmer. But for instance people are trying to find fault with Starmer. You have done the same yourself.
The Tories could put a monkey in charge and still win. Labour are in total disarray.
Raab has historical allegations? Wasn't a problem when we had a speaker much worse. And there is your problem. It has started to become acceptable.
And why is this?we all know the tories are failing badly yet Johnsons approval ratings are sky high?
Point missed completely. You're so entrenched in your opinions you wont listen to a neutral. Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.
If you couldn't get behind Corbyn for me, why should i get behind Starmer for you.
Was Corbyn a good leader? Was I not allowed to mention what he kept getting wrong for a long time? Was I wrong when I said I could see a big defeat coming? Yet Starmer is crap because he hasn't corrected everything that is wrong in a week.If you couldn't get behind Corbyn for me, why should i get behind Starmer for you.
And why is this?
We have had a leader that since the last GE has hardly said a word. We have a new leader getting hammered by those in his own party. Non stop allegations of wrongdoing even though there is a lack of evidence.
For over a month nobody has been able to question the Tories properly. Starmer has been asking questions since he took over. Hardly made the press and not been answered by the Tories.
I agree it is shite ATM. But you can't blame it all on Starmer. He has taken over our party when it is in its worse state in my lifetime. And I am not exactly a youngster. There is no magic wand to wave.
Spot on.Why Labour won’t get elected in a nutshell.
Can we please stop the petty infighting and actually try and win an election?
So can we wait until we reconvene until we say how useless he is?I don't blame it all on Starmer, far from it, this mess has been years in the making but it's now his responsibility, as it would have been whoever took over the party.
So can we wait until we reconvene until we say how useless he is?
If he is useless I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong to say he could be the one to take us forward. I will join you in saying we need someone better. The problem would be who.
It’s the same every day. Pushing for answers that the government don’t know/won’t give at present and/or repeating questions already asked by others (in different words).
I think the daily press briefings are worth having (a useful update for those that want it) but if anyone’s looking for anything groundbreaking on a daily basis they’re going to be disappointed. The monotonous/repetitive messaging might be dull but on the face of it, looking at the numbers following the measures, it does appear to have been successful to date
we all know the tories are failing badly yet Johnsons approval ratings are sky high?
i don't expect Starmer to sort Labours problems out in days but I do expect to see him attacking the tories.
And as I said, it's common practice to suspend people based on allegations. I've seen it happen myself.
A company can open themselves up to real issues if they don't.
Which is what I said at the time and many tried to make out that I am a Tory voter.
Just look on here. Whatever Corbyn did he got full support. He was supposed to have done the right thing on not saying leave or remain clearly. A fair few did see it as a problem though.
And it is the same for both Labour and Tory voters. They only see what they want to see and ignore what is wrong. So you won't lose the hardcore voters easily. You need to aim for the floating voters. Most are not rich or poor. Free internet was never going to win their vote. Those who wanted out of the EU went Tory. Those who wanted to remain were spread over the parties. But they knew the things that wouldn't benefit them much would have to be paid for.
The Tories offered next to nothing. So there wasn't a lot to worry about.
Yes life is shit. If life is OK for the majority they don't need change. But offer them something that could improve their life and look realistic and you win votes.
Most people will say they care about those having a hard time in life. But when it comes to it most will vote for what is best for themselves.
But not so left to alienate the floating voters.
Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.
But Labour lost out to the SNP in Scotland, another left wing party. Arguably more left than Labour is.
But not so left to alienate the floating voters.
Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.
In fairness Astute I don't think policies make a dammed bit of difference these days. It's all personality, perception and framing.
Not more left than Corbyn but helping the Tories in 2014 has killed Labour up there. Just like helping the Tories killed the Lib Dems and the DUP.
It would be nice to know how you manage to fool so many people it's the other part that's to blame not you. Common factor in all those scenarios - Tories. Yet the blame was taken by the LD, DUP and Labour.
Watching what happens in other countries who blink first would be a good indicator.Confidence any adjustments won’t trigger a second peak - unknown, can't see how this will ever be known?
No ones shot his dingy yet to sink it so clearly he is a floating voter.You're definitely a floater alright
G was right about one thing, policies don’t win elections. It’s all about conning a big enough coalition into believing you can do the job. The Tories have boomers and dumbasses and while we could get the dumbasses I think the boomers are ungettable without the media
Watching what happens in other countries who blink first would be a good indicator.
Precisely my point, people who wouldn't get behind Corbyn for the good of the party now telling people to get behind Starmer for the good of the party, and then saying we need left wing policies when the best we can hope for is tory lite, FWIW i voted for Starmer, hated doing it but we need to end this tory shit show, but i may not vote labour at an election as i don't think they ate going to offer the social reform i think we need, just more cap doffing and forelock tugging tradition.Why Labour won’t get elected in a nutshell.
Can we please stop the petty infighting and actually try and win an election?
Only thing you could do with the boomers is try and outdo the tories at their targeted messaging and spend millions on pretend think tanks and campaign groups. I doubt that will ever work now the boomers are living through their WW2 by staying at home, watching TV and clapping and can now finally shrug off the inadequacy they felt compared to their parents and grandparents.
This might sound harsh but the surge in support for Johnson shows the government are perceived as doing a good job and the community spirit (Blitz spirit if you will) will stick in people's heads. Unless they personally experience a loss or have a loved one who works in the NHS and is critical of the government there will be no change in allegiance away from the tories.
tbf, it depends how you compare. I agree that comparing absolute numbers is futile. Even trends can be tenuous at times, but there is something to be said for comparing what happens in response to what.Yes that is the only thing I can think of.
Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?
tbf, as previously mentioned, what he stood on was surprisingly left wing. I expected more moderate although tbf, it just shows what happens when a man wears a suit, they're perceived as being centre or right leaning!Precisely my point, people who wouldn't get behind Corbyn for the good of the party now telling people to get behind Starmer for the good of the party, and then saying we need left wing policies when the best we can hope for is tory lite, FWIW i voted for Starmer, hated doing it but we need to end this tory shit show, but i may not vote labour at an election as i don't think they ate going to offer the social reform i think we need, just more cap doffing and forelock tugging tradition.
Yes that is the only thing I can think of.
Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?
On that, and going back to the governments communication, it was telling the other day when a journalist mentioned that France were including care home deaths in their stats and if we did the same we'd have somewhat higher deaths than they have. Of course, the journalist was quickly pointed out as being foolish to compare two different countries with different circumstances even though minutes before we had been shown the cumulative death graphs where it was pointed out we were doing well relative to France and Spain.
It's disturbing how often we are being asked to believe two conflicting ideas.
tbf, it depends how you compare. I agree that comparing absolute numbers is futile. Even trends can be tenuous at times, but there is something to be said for comparing what happens in response to what.
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