Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (26 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

what I see is a hiding PM

I do find this very, very poor form I have to say. He's been ill and is recuperating, there's no reason to doubt that.

I don't really want to bring myself, my family, or my friends into this, but I know of someone who had a cough, seemed to be over it, then collapsed with a coughing fit. Was rushed to hospital, was put on oxygen for a couple of days where he stabilised, improved day 3, and was sent home as soon as they could because they needed the bed back... and he certainly wouldn't have had access to the post hospital care that the prime minister has.

All this kind of thing does is water down any argument about capabilities or otherwise of the government, as it makes it look like it's personal.

 

---

[shmmeee]

The Conservatives know how to win elections, and they’d be going in for the kill right now if it was Labour in charge, exactly as any opposition with intentions to take over should be doing. In 5 years nobody will remember that they kept quiet during this crisis, but they would remember if Labour were currently pointing out all the disasters and asking “where is the PM?”

if you want to be seen as the party of leadership, show some strength ffs

Have a read of this, Cameron’s Tory Party Conference speech (so already as partisan as it gets) in 2008 in the middle of the GFC. Note the “we will work with government”.

Conservative conference: David Cameron's speech in full

 

[Ring Of Steel]

We still live in a world where to openly rebel against the leader at a time of national crisis would work negatively against the opposition among the people as a whole. It'd be a disaster for Starmer.

I would respectfully massively disagree. They’re not rebelling, he’s not their leader. Where is the PM? Is it not a pertinent question to ask? To be honest I’d find it hard to vote for anyone who stood by silently while healthcare workers were dying as a direct consequence of what the opposition were doing. We all know what’s going to happen, the Conservatives will manipulate this into a heroic triumph over the next few years, and Labour are going to get trampled all over again by ‘playing nice guy’

The right questions asked in the right way- as should be the case in a democracy such as ours- that’s a winner. Standing idly by will kill them before they’ve started.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Have a read of this, Cameron’s Tory Party Conference speech (so already as partisan as it gets) in 2008 in the middle of the GFC. Note the “we will work with government”.

Conservative conference: David Cameron's speech in full

Has Starmer done anything similar? I have not been following him at all

 

[shmmeee]

I do find this very, very poor form I have to say. He's been ill and is recuperating, there's no reason to doubt that.

I don't really want to bring myself, my family, or my friends into this, but I know of someone who had a cough, seemed to be over it, then collapsed with a coughing fit. Was rushed to hospital, was put on oxygen for a couple of days where he stabilised, improved day 3, and was sent home as soon as they could because they needed the bed back... and he certainly wouldn't have had access to the post hospital care that the prime minister has.

All this kind of thing does is water down any argument about capabilities or otherwise of the government, as it makes it look like it's personal.

While I sort of agree, Johnson does have form for hiding himself and his other less serious cabinet members when times get tough. I don’t think that’s what’s happening here though.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

While I sort of agree, Johnson does have form for hiding himself and his other less serious cabinet members when times get tough. I don’t think that’s what’s happening here though.

He does, and while I'd have a certain appreciation for the boy who cried wolf argument, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that here.

Let's face it, given some of the people being wheeled out atm, even Johnson would come across well!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I do find this very, very poor form I have to say. He's been ill and is recuperating, there's no reason to doubt that.

I don't really want to bring myself, my family, or my friends into this, but I know of someone who had a cough, seemed to be over it, then collapsed with a coughing fit. Was rushed to hospital, was put on oxygen for a couple of days where he stabilised, improved day 3, and was sent home as soon as they could because they needed the bed back... and he certainly wouldn't have had access to the post hospital care that the prime minister has.

All this kind of thing does is water down any argument about capabilities or otherwise of the government, as it makes it look like it's personal.

When you have a government which repeatedly promises to look after people, but actually it turns out to be lies and they go ahead and do things that cause people’s deaths, yeah I’d say some people would take that personally. The arguments about capabilities are a different thing to arguments about whether someone has compassion. It’s his government, he picked them- look at the shower of shit paraded out each day, they are completely useless. I still don’t see how saying that makes anyone an uncaring bastard.

 

[Grendel]

Attlee won by making sure he was in the same cabinet as Churchill.

Spot on. Foot of course made one of his best speeches in Parliament and then was slaughtered by his own militant activists

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Cameron spent 2 years building a narrative that Labour caused the financial crisis....

And he won. They’re all playing a game, the Conservatives play it a lot better. They will do whatever it takes.

 

[PVA]

Let's face it, given some of the people being wheeled out atm, even Johnson would come across well!

But that's probably the point. Send out all the lackeys while the figures are awful and then wheel out Boris the great saviour when the number of deaths start dropping.

 

[Grendel]

I think you would have to agree that we live in a very, very different world now.

Not really Foot tried to do the same in the early 80’s

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Not really Foot tried to do the same in the early 80’s

Which is 40 years ago

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But that's probably the point. Send out all the lackeys while the figures are awful and then wheel out Boris the great saviour when the number of deaths start dropping.

Or alternatively, and here's a radical thought, but he really has been ill and it's pretty tasteless to go full-on conspiracy.

 

[shmmeee]

Has Starmer done anything similar? I have not been following him at all

Focused on PPE and exit strategy at the moment.

I think the time to strike as it were is when the final death toll is in and we can easily say “we are the worst in Europe” (which I expect us to be) or whatever.

Right now attacking a sick leader in the middle of crisis would only back fire.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But that's probably the point. Send out all the lackeys while the figures are awful and then wheel out Boris the great saviour when the number of deaths start dropping.

I guess we’ll see soon enough.

 

[Grendel]

Which is 40 years ago

Makes no odds. Attack the government in wartime (which this is) and he is finished as a leader of the opposition

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Focused on PPE and exit strategy at the moment.

I think the time to strike as it were is when the final death toll is in and we can easily say “we are the worst in Europe” (which I expect us to be) or whatever.

Right now attacking a sick leader in the middle of crisis would only back fire.

That makes sense. But if they don’t then they’re daft. If they want to have a prayer they need to capitalise, just as the Conservatives would with great aplomb.

 

[PVA]

Or alternatively, and here's a radical thought, but he really has been ill and it's pretty tasteless to go full-on conspiracy.

I don't doubt that he has been ill.

But also it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and certainly not a weird conspiracy, that someone well known for being lazy and for shying away from work could be taking a little longer than is needed.

 

[Grendel]

I don't doubt that he has been ill.

But also it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and certainly not a weird conspiracy, that someone well known for being lazy and for shying away from work could be taking a little longer than is needed.

That’s why starmer is a rational politician and you are - well not

 

[PVA]

That’s why starmer is a rational politician and you are - well not

You are many, many things. Rational is not one of them.

Actually shouldn't you call me a c**t for that? I know you really don't take it well when someone mentions Johnson's illness.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

That’s why starmer is a rational politician and you are - well not

I don’t think he’s claiming to be a politician is he? he’s pointing out that Boris Johnson has made a career out of going missing when the going gets tough. That’s not the same as saying he was never ill or being callous out of spite, it is pointing out a fact.

 

[Grendel]

You are many, many things. Rational is not one of them.

Actually shouldn't you call me a c**t for that? I know you really don't take it well when someone mentions Johnson's illness.

I genuinely would love starmer to say it. Oddly he has a brain dignity and rational thought so will not

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't doubt that he has been ill.

But also it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and certainly not a weird conspiracy, that someone well known for being lazy and for shying away from work could be taking a little longer than is needed.

Even if you're ultimately right there's no way Starmer could win by saying this

 

[PVA]

I don’t think he’s claiming to be a politician is he? he’s pointing out that Boris Johnson has made a career out of going missing when the going gets tough. That’s not the same as saying he was never ill or being callous out of spite, it is pointing out a fact.

Exactly.

But we know Grendel doesn't deal in facts, so probably quite a difficult one for him to digest.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t think he’s claiming to be a politician is he? he’s pointing out that Boris Johnson has made a career out of going missing when the going gets tough. That’s not the same as saying he was never ill or being callous out of spite, it is pointing out a fact.

When has he actually gone missing when the going got tough? Jeremy Corbyn if course was missing for the whole Brexit referendum and the first to push Article 50

 

[PVA]

Even if you're ultimately right there's no way Starmer could win by saying this

Oh definitely not, and that's absolutely not what I was suggesting.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

When has he actually gone missing when the going got tough? Jeremy Corbyn if course was missing for the whole Brexit referendum and the first to push Article 50

What has this got to do with Jeremy Corbyn?

 

[Grendel]

Oh definitely not, and that's absolutely not what I was suggesting.

When did he go missing?

 

[Grendel]

What has this got to do with Jeremy Corbyn?

he’s the only one whose gone missing so I assume as you don’t know about politics you got confused?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t think he’s claiming to be a politician is he? he’s pointing out that Boris Johnson has made a career out of going missing when the going gets tough. That’s not the same as saying he was never ill or being callous out of spite, it is pointing out a fact.

If we were politicians:

PVA: Nick Clegg on crack
G: Mark Francois
Coventrian: Ian Paisley Snr
Dave O'Day: John Prescott

 

[PVA]

When has he actually gone missing when the going got tough?

Hahaha

The time he hid in a fridge?
The time he decided to take on the might of Holly and Phil but ran scared of Andrew Neil?
The time he didn't turn up to the C4 climate debate?
The time he snatched a reporter's phone out of his hand to avoid questions about a sick boy?
The time he arranged an emergency COBRA meeting... For three days time so he could enjoy his weekend?
The time he went on a £15k holiday but wouldn't admit who paid for it?
The time he hid the Russia report?


I could go on.

 

[Grendel]

If we were politicians:

PVA: Nick Clegg on crack
G: Mark Francois
Coventrian: Ian Paisley Snr
Dave O'Day: John Prescott

I have you down as Michael Foot Astute is Roy Jenkins without a brain

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Hahaha

The time he hid in a fridge?
The time he decided to take on the might of Holly and Phil but ran scared of Andrew Neil?
The time he didn't turn up to the C4 climate debate?
The time he snatched a reporter's phone out of his hand to avoid questions about a sick boy?
The time he arranged an emergency COBRA meeting... For three days time so he could enjoy his weekend?
The time he went on a £15k holiday but wouldn't admit who paid for it?
The time he hid the Russia report?


I could go on.

there is a link for most if not all of them as well, we know grendel loves a link

 

[Ring Of Steel]

If we were politicians:

PVA: Nick Clegg on crack
G: Mark Francois
Coventrian: Ian Paisley Snr
Dave O'Day: John Prescott

Mark Francois

you’ve well and truly nailed that one

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

When has he actually gone missing when the going got tough?

Lol