Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (7 Viewers)

The coventrian

Well-Known Member
Didn’t see calling anyone a racist who wants to drown immigrants by shooting holes in their boats in any of them squares. See, even right wing nonsense is calling you out as a racist.
Why is that racist? It isnt. I'm not racist. You are. Your obsessed with bringing colour/race into everything. Is that all you've got? One daft comment from 6 months ago? The majority of us dont give a shit what colour/race people are. Its bigots like you that keep bringing it up. You're obsessed with trying to divide us.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Why is that racist? It isnt. I'm not racist. You are. Your obsessed with bringing colour/race into everything. Is that all you've got? One daft comment from 6 months ago? The majority of us dont give a shit what colour/race people are. Its bigots like you that keep bringing it up. You're obsessed with trying to divide us.

It wasn’t once you said most other people would agree it’s what we should do. You go on and on about multicultural shitholes and what else could that mean?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I don’t know if you’re being facetious but infection rate and the severity of the infection are two different things. If I had to make an educated guess I would put it down to one or several of the hundreds of chemicals in tobacco smoke that is hostile to the virus. I could imagine this in particular in houses covered in ash over the years.

If you’re a regular smoker however and get infected then you’re in big big trouble. And I know I get pulled up for ‘I have a degree’ but here it’s directly relevant-I’m not just guessing

There’s so many possible variables. With my data head on (my degree) I’m wondering if the age profile of smokers in France trends younger than other countries. Some light googling suggests 29% of students smoke in France and much less than that in the U.K. for example. Maybe our smokers are older and more vulnerable than theirs?

That’s the danger of isolating one variable in one country.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Well I guess being a teacher you've got all the time in the world havent you. Keep taking your tory pay cheque uni boy.

Uh oh, you implied teaching is easy...

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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
There’s so many possible variables. With my data head on (my degree) I’m wondering is the age profile of smokers in France trends younger than other countries. Some light by googling suggests 29% of students smoke in France and much less than that in the U.K. for example. Maybe our smokers are older and more vulnerable than theirs?

That’s the danger of isolating one variable in one country.

I think there is something in the idea that the rank tobacco chemicals on your body and where you live would reduce the virus’ survival chances. But it needs investigation
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I think there is something in the idea that the rank tobacco chemicals on your body and where you live would reduce the virus’ survival chances. But it needs investigation

This ties into a big bear of mine, don’t know if you can share any insight. When I was a poor student I looked into medical testing as a money earner and couldn’t do it as every advert said “no smokers”, I always got annoyed that they didn’t test medicine on smokers. Is that actually true or is there a set of smoker trials I just wasn’t seeing?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
This ties into a big bear of mine, don’t know if you can share any insight. When I was a poor student I looked into medical testing as a money earner and couldn’t do it as every advert said “no smokers”, I always got annoyed that they didn’t test medicine on smokers. Is that actually true or is there a set of smoker trials I just wasn’t seeing?

I think it’s for the same reason that they normally don’t allow those with very high or low BMIs-they’re just generally more at risk to secondary health problems. Studies specifically for those groups are a different matter
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I think it’s for the same reason that they normally don’t allow those with very high or low BMIs-they’re just generally more at risk to secondary health problems. Studies specifically for those groups are a different matter

I hope so. It always felt like it was “eh fuck em if there’s complications” type thing. I know there’s a sex bias in a lot of older research where only men are tested and women are treated as shrunken men, so wondered if it was the same.
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
I think Sweden is taking a huge risk but it’s up to each country to try to manage the disease as best they can. If they can allow it to spread without breaching their health service capacity then who’s to say that ultimately that might not be the best decision in the long run.

The problem I can see with their strategy is the lag between restriction measures being implemented and the confirmed cases coming through (people showing symptoms and then needing hospital treatment) and whether it spreads to higher risk individuals. This is made even more difficult due to the high number of asymptomatic/mild cases ie You could start putting restrictions in place to control the spread but it could be too late as it’s spread more than you think and you’re going to breach your health service capacity anyway.

I honestly don’t think anyone will know the best solution/strategy for months or even longer. The only fact we know at the moment is we don’t have a vaccine and therefore this is around for a good while yet.

All countries can do in the meantime is try to buy some time in order for us to find out how to best to manage/treat the virus (or find a vaccine), whilst remaining within their health care capacity, without damaging the economy to the point whereby more damage is done to society than would be done by the virus itself.

Not easy

ps also, if it’s discovered that you can catch it again, there’s another layer to the mess which changes the dynamics again

As I said they've had to implement fewer measures than some countries but may have to implement more in future to save their healthcare system getting overloaded. I'm not criticising them as such, just acknowledging that they have high death/population compared to the Scandinavian countries.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I hope so. It always felt like it was “eh fuck em if there’s complications” type thing. I know there’s a sex bias in a lot of older research where only men are tested and women are treated as shrunken men, so wondered if it was the same.

If they want drugs to pass clinical trials they have to do it by the book. Not sure they always did though!
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
As I say above I’m not supporting their strategy but the death rates are a strange one until you know how many in the population has it/has had it. Even the best testing (major) nations haven’t really got a clue, only estimates from some relatively low number antibody sampling

If for example after testing we find out that half the population in Sweden has had it at the current number of deaths then it would put a totally different slant on the argument

I’m not saying that’s the case at all but you get the point.

I can't see any variations are going to be significant enough to explain the difference in death/population between Sweden and similar nations.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the minimal infections and deaths in numerous countries that locked down earlier clearly aren't a reliable measure yet against the 20k plus we've had here.

Not really, or not yet anyway, unless the virus disappears or until a vaccine has found.

If a country has locked down sooner/better then their infections and deaths will of course be a lot less at the moment. However, assuming (and it’s still a big assumption) that (a large majority of) people can’t catch it twice, there will also be more people who can catch it in those countries in future waves in those countries I presume it may also spread quicker in those countries as there are more people to catch it.

Of course if a vaccine/better treatments are found quickly those that have currently been the best in tracing, tracking and suppressing the virus will ultimately have been the most successful in tackling it. At the very least they are certainly buying themselves more time to find better treatments, get better prepared etc (and find a potential vaccine) which has got to be a good thing. However, if on the other hand a vaccine solution isn’t found then eventually a majority of people will get it so it will be more how patients are treated and it’s essential that countries remain below their health service capacity (I’d imagine if the outbreak had hit in the autumn and peaked over the winter most health services wouldn’t have coped - this is still my concern regarding the second wave, however, hopefully by then we will have better ability to control the spread, as well as better treatments and capacity)

ps Just to clarify, I’m saying this with little (fuck all !!!) scientific knowledge, just applying logic to what I’ve read/understood to date so won’t be offended if people shoot me down. There are so many variables at play it’s almost impossible to guess what will happen in the coming months (or longer)
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
Now there is open talk of social distancing lasting all year and beyond it's going to be interesting to see what that actually means in practice while trying to get more of the economy going and how that will affect business decisions. If you run a restuarent you might be hoping you can open for table service soon. If you run a bar/club you might be thinking there's no future for you. Plus, what happens to those employees? Is furlough extended for them until then or does some more generous benefit system come into place and a lot of those people gradually change jobs into industries that are busier? What happens to industries like tourism? What about the countries who rely on it as a substantial part of their economy?
 

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
Now there is open talk of social distancing lasting all year and beyond it's going to be interesting to see what that actually means in practice while trying to get more of the economy going and how that will affect business decisions. If you run a restuarent you might be hoping you can open for table service soon. If you run a bar/club you might be thinking there's no future for you. Plus, what happens to those employees? Is furlough extended for them until then or does some more generous benefit system come into place and a lot of those people gradually change jobs into industries that are busier? What happens to industries like tourism? What about the countries who rely on it as a substantial part of their economy?
If this continues beyond June, which is not out of the question, then I think it will be increasingly hard for the government to justify paying people in non-essential jobs for not working when key workers are not only likely to be paid very little, but also are the ones who are going to have to pick up the tab for this through higher taxation in future. All furlough is doing is increasing inequality by providing big handouts for those who are already likely to be privileged.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Now there is open talk of social distancing lasting all year and beyond it's going to be interesting to see what that actually means in practice while trying to get more of the economy going and how that will affect business decisions. If you run a restuarent you might be hoping you can open for table service soon. If you run a bar/club you might be thinking there's no future for you. Plus, what happens to those employees? Is furlough extended for them until then or does some more generous benefit system come into place and a lot of those people gradually change jobs into industries that are busier? What happens to industries like tourism? What about the countries who rely on it as a substantial part of their economy?
There isn't a chance that will happen

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David O'Day

Well-Known Member
What you are most likely to see is the lifting and tightening as required of the restrictions. Chris Whitty hinself said yesterday they would have to take into account if the restrictions where going to have themselves an adverse effect on the nations health

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David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Why is that racist? It isnt. I'm not racist. You are. Your obsessed with bringing colour/race into everything. Is that all you've got? One daft comment from 6 months ago? The majority of us dont give a shit what colour/race people are. Its bigots like you that keep bringing it up. You're obsessed with trying to divide us.
It's not racist to want to drown immigrants?

Ok Derek

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Astute

Well-Known Member
I don’t know if you’re being facetious but infection rate and the severity of the infection are two different things. If I had to make an educated guess I would put it down to one or several of the hundreds of chemicals in tobacco smoke that is hostile to the virus. I could imagine this in particular in houses covered in ash over the years.

If you’re a regular smoker however and get infected then you’re in big big trouble. And I know I get pulled up for ‘I have a degree’ but here it’s directly relevant-I’m not just guessing
So I'm being facetious. You've got the degree.

Yes infection rates and severity are different. But I didn't say about the severity. The article didn't say about severity. Yet I am the one who is supposedly being facetious.

So let's forget about your point scoring. Why are smokers 80% less likely to get the virus if these numbers are correct?
 

Nick

Administrator
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This is madness.

Why is it allowed still? You can't walk round a country park but you can queue up for a burger.
 

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