Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (234 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

That wouldn't surprise me totally but in reality pandora's box was open when we left our borders open too long. I suppose that includes people returning from Italy etc, but it will also largely be citizens from those countries too.

Have a look on flight radar 24. There are still flights from China coming into Heathrow daily.

Most UK airports have almost no flights but there are still quite a few coming into LHR.

People only need to worry about the ones going the other way

 

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[Ring Of Steel]

An interesting read
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...ere-did-britain-go-wrong-20200428-p54o2d.html

"A former Australian high commissioner to Britain, Mike Rann, says crucial mistakes were made right when they had the most damaging impact: "The earliest stages were handled negligently," Rann says. "A shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn't happen here." (we certainly saw plenty of that on here with the 'would you rather be in Italy' jibes)

Around the world people are highlighting the UK as a case study in how to get it wrong, with the overall tone being speed to react. When taking out the fine details of the plan- lockdown, social distancing etc, you come back to the same conclusion- that it was all done slowly, without clarity, and with a lot of confusion. There is a very clear correlation between speed to react & clarity/ enforcement of instructions and 'success' in controlling. The countries that have done best- no matter what the details were on what they did, they did it fast and efficiently. The countries that have done worst- they acted slowly and with no clear message.

Problem we have had is that not only were we slow out of the blocks & unclear on what the plan was with confusion all over the place- we compounded that with the other issues like PPE, care homes- all of which combined to create a recipe for a massive body count, which will continue for some time yet unfortunately, we lost too much time at the start.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Sadly, they are not.

I just checked all current airborne flights into Heathrow in the world right now. Nearly all of them are passenger flights which are scheduled, including the ones coming from China.

You are right. I looked regularly probably a month ago and there were live arrivals from Madrid, Rome, loads from New York, China- all day every day. Then when the passengers get to LHR they just walk out onto the street with no checks or screening whatsoever. I stopped looking as it was obvious that deliberate or not, nothing was being done whatsoever to take precautions.

 

[shmmeee]

So, with Ferguson being forced to resign and Hancock saying it’s a matter for the police when can we expect Robert Jenrick to resign and the police to visit Stanley Johnson?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

An interesting read
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...ere-did-britain-go-wrong-20200428-p54o2d.html

"A former Australian high commissioner to Britain, Mike Rann, says crucial mistakes were made right when they had the most damaging impact: "The earliest stages were handled negligently," Rann says. "A shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn't happen here." (we certainly saw plenty of that on here with the 'would you rather be in Italy' jibes)

Around the world people are highlighting the UK as a case study in how to get it wrong, with the overall tone being speed to react. When taking out the fine details of the plan- lockdown, social distancing etc, you come back to the same conclusion- that it was all done slowly, without clarity, and with a lot of confusion. There is a very clear correlation between speed to react & clarity/ enforcement of instructions and 'success' in controlling. The countries that have done best- no matter what the details were on what they did, they did it fast and efficiently. The countries that have done worst- they acted slowly and with no clear message.

Problem we have had is that not only were we slow out of the blocks & unclear on what the plan was with confusion all over the place- we compounded that with the other issues like PPE, care homes- all of which combined to create a recipe for a massive body count, which will continue for some time yet unfortunately, we lost too much time at the start.

And if you want to link it to politics etc- here it is. We got it wrong at the start. And that is the very time that The Spectator, The Telegraph etc along with some people on here, the brexit-obsessed government & 'scientific experts' were all sneering about how the "Europeans have got it wrong", looking down their noses at Italy, slagging off the Chinese, telling everyone that 'Britain Knows Best' and pushing an isolationist approach. Look how fucking wrong they were.

Turns out that Britain (for clarity, the people running Britain) don't know best, and the decisions made by these people, aided and abetted by the like-minded media & their sycophantic readers & acolytes got it catastrophically wrong. Everything people feared about this government has come true in chilling fashion.

 

[Astute]

No I am explaining how you have misunderstood that and other points.

Even though I quoted you saying so?

OK will admit you don't mention your degree although you admitted you have mentioned your degree several times. And I admit you never said that smokers would have more severe effects from the virus although the quote shows you did and your degree was the reason for knowing so.

Happy now?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

An interesting read
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...ere-did-britain-go-wrong-20200428-p54o2d.html

"A former Australian high commissioner to Britain, Mike Rann, says crucial mistakes were made right when they had the most damaging impact: "The earliest stages were handled negligently," Rann says. "A shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn't happen here." (we certainly saw plenty of that on here with the 'would you rather be in Italy' jibes)

Around the world people are highlighting the UK as a case study in how to get it wrong, with the overall tone being speed to react. When taking out the fine details of the plan- lockdown, social distancing etc, you come back to the same conclusion- that it was all done slowly, without clarity, and with a lot of confusion. There is a very clear correlation between speed to react & clarity/ enforcement of instructions and 'success' in controlling. The countries that have done best- no matter what the details were on what they did, they did it fast and efficiently. The countries that have done worst- they acted slowly and with no clear message.

Problem we have had is that not only were we slow out of the blocks & unclear on what the plan was with confusion all over the place- we compounded that with the other issues like PPE, care homes- all of which combined to create a recipe for a massive body count, which will continue for some time yet unfortunately, we lost too much time at the start.

Hugely damning !

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So, with Ferguson being forced to resign and Hancock saying it’s a matter for the police when can we expect Robert Jenrick to resign and the police to visit Stanley Johnson?

And farage

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Sadly, they are not.

I just checked all current airborne flights into Heathrow in the world right now. Nearly all of them are passenger flights which are scheduled, including the ones coming from China.

Very bizarre and pretty reckless they're allowing flights to continue. Sounds like they're packed as well.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

An interesting read
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...ere-did-britain-go-wrong-20200428-p54o2d.html

"A former Australian high commissioner to Britain, Mike Rann, says crucial mistakes were made right when they had the most damaging impact: "The earliest stages were handled negligently," Rann says. "A shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn't happen here." (we certainly saw plenty of that on here with the 'would you rather be in Italy' jibes)

Around the world people are highlighting the UK as a case study in how to get it wrong, with the overall tone being speed to react. When taking out the fine details of the plan- lockdown, social distancing etc, you come back to the same conclusion- that it was all done slowly, without clarity, and with a lot of confusion. There is a very clear correlation between speed to react & clarity/ enforcement of instructions and 'success' in controlling. The countries that have done best- no matter what the details were on what they did, they did it fast and efficiently. The countries that have done worst- they acted slowly and with no clear message.

Problem we have had is that not only were we slow out of the blocks & unclear on what the plan was with confusion all over the place- we compounded that with the other issues like PPE, care homes- all of which combined to create a recipe for a massive body count, which will continue for some time yet unfortunately, we lost too much time at the start.

Starmer has reiterated yet again today we were slow to implement the necessary measures. Conservative or not you can't not agree with his statement.

Although many I'm sure will try.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Very bizarre and pretty reckless they're allowing flights to continue. Sounds like they're packed as well.

It’s the uk lockdown. Do what you think is right so long as you can get away with it

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Half of me thinks that there was too much for the NHS to cope with at the same time. Most countries seem to have had the same problem. The other half of me thinks that they didn't care too much about the care homes. They will save a lot of money in the future by not having to care for those no longer with us.

Given some of the views of the advisors in No. 10 there is that nagging doubt in my mind whether or not the care home thing could have been intentional. Reduce costs short term with increased death, less pensions etc to pay. I can't believe even they're so stupid as to not have thought "hang on - protect the vulnerable yet we're sending positive cases into a largely closed environment where the carers will be looking after everyone and the chances of infecting other residents is massive. Let's not do that maybe". Early on there may have been a worry about capacity in hospitals but this was before loads of cases and as has been pointed out the Nightingale hospitals are empty and they would be the perfect halfway house.

The fact that I can even have that doubt about my own government is depressing, but the fact is it is something those with influence have espoused in the past.

 

[Astute]

Starmer has reiterated yet again today we were slow to implement the necessary measures. Conservative or not you can't not agree with his statement.

Although many I'm sure will try.

And not strict enough with the measures set.

 

[Astute]

Given some of the views of the advisors in No. 10 there is that nagging doubt in my mind whether or not the care home thing could have been intentional. Reduce costs short term with increased death, less pensions etc to pay. I can't believe even they're so stupid as to not have thought "hang on - protect the vulnerable yet we're sending positive cases into a largely closed environment where the carers will be looking after everyone and the chances of infecting other residents is massive. Let's not do that maybe". Early on there may have been a worry about capacity in hospitals but this was before loads of cases and as has been pointed out the Nightingale hospitals are empty and they would be the perfect halfway house.

The fact that I can even have that doubt about my own government is depressing, but the fact is it is something those with influence have espoused in the past.

I would look forward to the enquiry needed if I could think it would be unbiased.

 

[fernandopartridge]

How utterly depressing the news is today. That dickhead Hancock now on about "backing the police" in prosecuting Neil Ferguson. He was tight lipped when Robert Jenrick arguably did much worse.

Johnson comes out with another target to be missed, more soundbites, more bluster, more deaths. Fuck the Tories.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I don't get this 'we've got a cunning plan, but we won't release it until Sunday, so you're all ready for it for Monday'. Wtf is that all about?

 

[shmmeee]

And farage

To be fair the police did visit Farage and his excuse was that he’s a national journalist who’s racism is an essential service in the pandemic.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

I don't get this 'we've got a cunning plan, but we won't release it until Sunday, so you're all ready for it for Monday'. Wtf is that all about?

So people don't flount the 'rules' during the bank holiday this week perhaps?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So people don't flount the 'rules' during the bank holiday this week perhaps?

What he's effectively hinting is it's all going to come down next week... so people will flout the rules anyway as there's no message other than 'we have a cunning plan.'

 

[shmmeee]

I don't get this 'we've got a cunning plan, but we won't release it until Sunday, so you're all ready for it for Monday'. Wtf is that all about?

Government scared of scrutiny and prefers to play with friendly media even in times of national crisis?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So people don't flount the 'rules' during the bank holiday this week perhaps?

All the more reason to reiterate that nothing has changed and we are still staying home (unless you fancy some sex) protecting the nhs (unless you are from a care home then we’ll send you back to infect all the vulnerable people there and save lives (but not in a South Korea or a New Zealand kind of way) Yours KING BORIS

 

[clint van damme]

How utterly depressing the news is today. That dickhead Hancock now on about "backing the police" in prosecuting Neil Ferguson. He was tight lipped when Robert Jenrick arguably did much worse.

Johnson comes out with another target to be missed, more soundbites, more bluster, more deaths. Fuck the Tories.

I thought it was a much better performance from Ikea Starmer today if I'm honest.
Though he wasn't up against much. Don't think Johnson properly answered one question and eventually, as you say, got goaded into setting another unachievable target on testing.

When all this is done and we start Brexit negotiations we're going to get absolutely rinsed with this mob in charge.

 

[David O'Day]

The dibble aren't taking any further action against Ferguson. It was a smoke screen to mask the appalling death rate and the fact that Boris is having his arse handed to him at the latest PMQs

He's just blurted out 200k tests a day by end of may

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I'd imagine what's more likely is the government will try and pimp out UK health care in their trade talks with the US..

I fear you may be right. I'll stop sort of suggesting it is intentional to use the excuse our health system can't cope, but even so the US are one of the few places that have (thus far) to have dealth with it even worse than we have.

So to potentially put the health service on the table to a country whose system has been even worse than ours is just ridiculous.

We really do need to consider stepping away from the 'special relationship' (by which I largely men abusive and one way) a little bit, and especially so if Trump is re-elected and make new ones that are more progressive.

How about a Boston Coffee Party if Trump gets back in? Go to Lincolnshire and dump a load of Americano into the Wash?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Two thirds of Africans in 20 countries said that they would run out of food And water if they had to stay at home for 14 days. Wow!

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

What he's effectively hinting is it's all going to come down next week... so people will flout the rules anyway as there's no message other than 'we have a cunning plan.'

So either way the messaging is a colossal balls up.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Even though I quoted you saying so?

OK will admit you don't mention your degree although you admitted you have mentioned your degree several times. And I admit you never said that smokers would have more severe effects from the virus although the quote shows you did and your degree was the reason for knowing so.

Happy now?

It’s not just me saying it it’s the WHO dude

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

I don't get this 'we've got a cunning plan, but we won't release it until Sunday, so you're all ready for it for Monday'. Wtf is that all about?

erm because maybe its bank holiday?

 

[David O'Day]

erm because maybe its bank holiday?

What does Friday being a bank holiday have to.do.with releasing plans on a Sunday

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[clint van damme]

I don't get this 'we've got a cunning plan, but we won't release it until Sunday, so you're all ready for it for Monday'. Wtf is that all about?

I can't believe Johnson committed himself to working a Sunday.
Bone idle fuck can't normally complete a basic week.
He'll probably volunteer one of his lackeys.

 

[Astute]

I thought it was a much better performance from Ikea Starmer today if I'm honest.
Though he wasn't up against much. Don't think Johnson properly answered one question and eventually, as you say, got goaded into setting another unachievable target on testing.

When all this is done and we start Brexit negotiations we're going to get absolutely rinsed with this mob in charge.

Our flat pack Labour party leader does seem to be finding his feet.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

have you seen some of the pictures coming from America? It's madness. Packed parks, packed beaches, it's a little bit more understandable here, a combination of cabin fever and number of deaths decreasing is leading to people getting a little complacent, even though this is the time we really need to hold firm, but their numbers are going through the roof.

My daughters placement in Washington has been cancelled and she finds out today if she is going to be relocated to another part of the country, I really hope she isn't.
Trump even talking about disbanding the COVID 19 task force, it's crazy.

It is utter madness. The talk in the press conferences of winning the battle and past the peak and almost immediately talking about easing of restrictions. Considering Trump has put all these travel restrictions in place from abroad (always the foreigners) the fact it's still a growing problem there indicates his administrations handling of it has been awful and worse than ours. IMO it should be top of our list in terms of travel restrictions for the foreseeable future they've handled it so badly. But it won't be. All in the name of the economy (which has still been massively affected). I'd love this to be the 'wake up call' to Americans that this consumerist chasing of money is a ridiculous way to run a society.

Although I'm sorry your daughter has missed out on that opportunity I think it may well be for the best.

Someone said yesterday is anyone surprised numbers aren't falling quicker, I think a big part of it is a bit of complacency and people not following lockdown to quite the same level as before. Definitely more people about, more people visiting others etc.

 

[Skybluefaz]

erm because maybe its bank holiday?

No its so they don't have to provide the detail. Take school closures as an example.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The dibble aren't taking any further action against Ferguson. It was a smoke screen to mask the appalling death rate and the fact that Boris is having his arse handed to him at the latest PMQs

He's just blurted out 200k tests a day by end of may

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Well in any case, how could they charge him as technically it was his lover who broke the law as written.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

erm because maybe its bank holiday?

What? What's Friday got to do with anything?!?