Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (72 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Government is responsible for the message it puts out.

Which clearly is lockdown hasn’t ended - ikea is open

 

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[Nick]

Government is responsible for the message it puts out.

Have they said Lockdown has finished? Granted, I don't watch the daily news briefs.

 

[shmmeee]

I am talking about the general consensus. Look at the aspect the media are pushing as well, look at the general reactions on here.

Lockdown and social distancing doesn't seem to apply if you are doing it for a "cause" it goes under the radar. Same weeks ago when dicks were acting up in supermarkets over some Pasta, it was OK because they "need to eat".

From what I recall the general consensus was all gathering are stupid. Be it on the beach, on a bridge, or at a protest. The only person I’ve seen suggesting otherwise and making a distinction is you TBH.

 

[clint van damme]

I am talking about the general consensus. Look at the aspect the media are pushing as well, look at the general reactions on here.

Lockdown and social distancing doesn't seem to apply if you are doing it for a "cause".

But no-one is saying its OK for them people to ignore social distancing. You're making out like the majority of the public think its OK when they don't.
I saw footage of protests from Rotterdam where they did maintain social distancing so there's no excuse and it can be done.

I haven't seen anyone on here condoning it but they are saying the Cummings thing gave people a reason to say fuck it which i totally agree with.
it's like someone bringing a pint to their seat at that match. Most people think what an arse.
But if everyone sees a steward doing it then a lot of them are gong to think fuck it, I'll do the same.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Have they said Lockdown has finished? Granted, I don't watch the daily news briefs.

ffs

 

[clint van damme]

The scale of outrage is different as you know - now of course conveniently lockdown has ended - that’s odd. Most shops are still closed, the ones that are open have queues outside everywhere, sport is off, concerts off, pubs and cafes closed

I’ll amazed people on here aren’t demanding the resignation of Barry Gardiner. At least Nandy and even Lammy have put the boot in - will be interesting if Starmer removes the whip

what has Gardiner done?

edit - just read it, ill advised but still not in the same league as the man who made the rules breaking them and then altering them to legitimise his own behaviour whilst giving an explanation to the nation full of lies.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is what was relayed to teachers in Wales yesterday.

All schools in wales are to open for all years on June 29th until july 27th a week into summer hols and then open again sept1st with an extra week off for october half term. No more than a third of school at any one time. More details next week. ... bit different to what we thought they would do... I can imagine this would be a huge logistical nightmare for heads!

I don't envy them. Mind you as it was my fault for choosing secondary teaching, nobody made them teach in Wales.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

what has Gardiner done?

By the same logic they use, Grendel etc. are obviously fine with it...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

what has Gardiner done?

He went to the big George Floyd protest

 

[Grendel]

what has Gardiner done?

Really? Main news today

 

[Nick]

From what I recall the general consensus was all gathering are stupid. Be it on the beach, on a bridge, or at a protest. The only person I’ve seen suggesting otherwise and making a distinction is you TBH.

Has it? Have a look at how the media treat things, have a look at the level of reaction.

The police obviously think the situations are different, their boss joined in with a gathering in London on a bridge. No issue handing out fines to people in cars with somebody else though.

Much like Cummings, there is an awful lot of hypocrisy going on.

 

[clint van damme]

Really? Main news today

just read it and edited my post.

 

[Grendel]

By the same logic they use, Grendel etc. are obviously fine with it...

Not at all and I think it’s far more likely to spread infection than a road trip to Durham

 

[shmmeee]

There’s also the fact that the lockdown hasn’t been policed at all, and that’s because of direction from the government. At the start they were policing it and right wing Twitter got all up in arms about the police state. Government ministers started telling the police off for enforcing the law.

Then the absolute mess of messaging. Vulnerable people are allowed out despite us still being at level 4 apparently. Sports starting up. Dates given for pubs to be open soon. Retrospectively changing the rules to allow people to use their “instinct”. Bringing back Parliament despite them being able to work from home.

 

[ccfchoi87]

By the same logic they use, Grendel etc. are obviously fine with it...

This exact tweet proves exactly what Nick is saying.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There’s also the fact that the lockdown hasn’t been policed at all, and that’s because of direction from the government. At the start they were policing it and right wing Twitter got all up in arms about the police state. Government ministers started telling the police off for enforcing the law.

Then the absolute mess of messaging. Vulnerable people are allowed out despite us still being at level 4 apparently. Sports starting up. Dates given for pubs to be open soon. Retrospectively changing the rules to allow people to use their “instinct”. Bringing back Parliament despite them being able to work from home.

Don't forget the 14 day quarantine makes total sense because we don't want a second spike and we'll make sure you get fined a grand but you can still go to the shop

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not at all and I think it’s far more likely to spread infection than a road trip to Durham

You complain about nobody complaining about certain figures' actions, but seem happy for those who set the tone to be disengenuous, unclear, and contradictory.

The deflection onto nonentities absolves people of responsibility.

 

[PVA]

Lockdown was effectively ended when Johnson and the cabinet backed Cummings.

They value one man's job over public health guidance.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You complain about nobody complaining about certain figures' actions, but seem happy for those who set the tone to be disengenuous, unclear, and contradictory.

The deflection onto nonentities absolves people of responsibility.

Assuming this is G coming back with his fishing rod. Wonder if he now accepts we are the worst for deaths in Europe

 

[shmmeee]

Why are we pretending that the government don’t set the rules here?

If they wanted to they could make it clear people need to be prosecuted for this stuff. But that would mean throwing their favourite advisor under the bus so they don’t. Same as when they wanted a fall guy from SAGE suddenly breaking lockdown was serious, until someone they liked broke it then it was all fuzzy and about using your judgement.

You want to talk hypocrisy and politicisation that’s where to start.

 

[clint van damme]

Assuming this is G coming back with his fishing rod. Wonder if he now accepts we are the worst for deaths in Europe

we are worse for deaths than Europe!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

we are worse for deaths than Europe!

All of it combined?

 

[Ian1779]

What it does highlight is how easily the virus could be potentially spread.

Gardiner would have been in Parliament earlier in the week - Alok Sharma has a suspected case and has been tested. Parliament struggled to socially distance because of the absurd voting nonsense so it’s perfectly plausible that the virus could have been transmitted. He’s then gone to this protest where again social distancing isn’t happening and again could potentially transmit it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What it does highlight is how easily the virus could be potentially spread.

Gardiner would have been in Parliament earlier in the week - Alok Sharma has a suspected case and has been tested. Parliament struggled to socially distance because of the absurd voting nonsense so it’s perfectly plausible that the virus could have been transmitted. He’s then gone to this protest where again social distancing isn’t happening and again could potentially transmit it.

Europe's, number 1, Europe's Europe's number 1

 

[Grendel]

You complain about nobody complaining about certain figures' actions, but seem happy for those who set the tone to be disengenuous, unclear, and contradictory.

The deflection onto nonentities absolves people of responsibility.

Oh dear double standards alert

If you seriously are trying to convince anyone that social distancing rules are not still there and known that’s straw clutching

Describing an MP as a non entity as a reason for a excusing is curious. Are special advisors more likely to spread infection

Mr Starmer said he would fire Mr Cummings. Let’s see what happens to Mr Gardiner who admits he is aware what was happening was against guidelines and he didn’t care

 

[Nick]

Why are we pretending that the government don’t set the rules here?

If they wanted to they could make it clear people need to be prosecuted for this stuff. But that would mean throwing their favourite advisor under the bus so they don’t. Same as when they wanted a fall guy from SAGE suddenly breaking lockdown was serious, until someone they liked broke it then it was all fuzzy and about using your judgement.

You want to talk hypocrisy and politicisation that’s where to start.

Oh, MPs being hypocrites are nothing new.

Cummins was in the wrong, that's obvious. It's pathetic the shit he has come out with and he visited a landmark. If he had just driven himself and his family to a second home to isolate there's not too much wrong with it. He didn't just do that though so yeah, fuck him off.

Same as Cressida Dick, why is she still in a job after rocking up on a busy bridge surrounded by the public?

 

[PVA]

All of it combined?

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder what we should do about Rees-Mogg? He’s made MP’s come back and anyone who saw footage from inside parliament yesterday would have seen social distancing inside parliament as bad as social distancing at a demonstration outside of parliament. You could actually argue that what Rees-Mogg organised is many times worse as parliament is an enclosed space whereas the demonstration was at least outside where the risk of spreading infection is greatly diminished. Just to be clear I’m not saying that makes the demonstration okay as far as social distancing is concerned, I’m far from happy with the scenes outside of parliament. I’m saying the scenes inside parliament was arguably far worse as far as risk of spreading the virus is concerned.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

There’s also the fact that the lockdown hasn’t been policed at all, and that’s because of direction from the government. At the start they were policing it and right wing Twitter got all up in arms about the police state. Government ministers started telling the police off for enforcing the law.

Then the absolute mess of messaging. Vulnerable people are allowed out despite us still being at level 4 apparently. Sports starting up. Dates given for pubs to be open soon. Retrospectively changing the rules to allow people to use their “instinct”. Bringing back Parliament despite them being able to work from home.

I'm actually sympathetic to the first point. People clamouring for house arrest is... an interesting sociological event. That also makes me sympathetic towards protest as democracy requires government to be challenged and held to account, it also requires the disenfranchised to be allowed a chance to gain a voice. You can, of course, do the latter in a different way at present.

It's the chaos of the messaging I have most of an issue with!

 

[shmmeee]

This isn’t quite right TBF. Spain have developed a bat shit way of counting that saw their deaths drop from a couple of hundred to single figures overnight. In all likelihood their real figures would’ve put the 27 slightly ahead.

Even so, we are waaaaay out of kilter with the rest of the continent.

 

[The coventrian]

There's also been loads of arseholes going to the beach or Brighton pier though yes the mass protests yesterday also had them.

We all know your solution to those trying to get in across the Channel. Should we have shot their dinghies?

No just send them back.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm actually sympathetic to the first point. People clamouring for house arrest is... an interesting sociological event. That also makes me sympathetic towards protest as democracy requires government to be challenged and held to account, it also requires the disenfranchised to be allowed a chance to gain a voice. You can, of course, do the latter in a different way at present.

It's the chaos of the messaging I have most of an issue with!

Im generally quite the libertarian, but like war a pandemic is an exceptional event where the normal rules don’t apply.

A tight lockdown could’ve been achieved with more strict policing. Just like other countries. It would’ve meant an order of magnitude fewer deaths and as we’ve seen in NZ lockdown ending far earlier.

 

[clint van damme]

All of it combined?

Yesterday we were (the 27 EU countries that is).
Even for just one day, that's horrendous.

 

[The coventrian]

Firstly - you have a point about mass gatherings and the effect they could have on the spread of the virus. I don’t know how you protest whilst remaining socially distant. Lockdown was ended by the government and their ‘leading by example’ actions. And as Brighton said - there have been lots of other examples of mass gatherings on beach and parks by people of all ages, skin colours and political persuasions.

Secondly - I didn’t realise you were personally provided with the data on their individual circumstances. I assume you’ll know if they are people that are claiming asylum, or refugees. But you won’t care regardless. You just see what you want to.

How many would you be willing to take in? That would be zero wouldn't it. We're in the middle of a pandemic ffs. We're the worst country in Europe so why would they want to come here?

 

[The coventrian]

Regarding the men vs women thing @The coventrian

I believe the idea is young men are more likely to make the dangerous journey across and then either send money back, or get asylum and bring their family over. That’s why it’s young men. The elderly and frail don’t tend to cling to rafts/the underside of lorries so well.

Total bollocks.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Im generally quite the libertarian, but like war a pandemic is an exceptional event where the normal rules don’t apply.

A tight lockdown could’ve been achieved with more strict policing. Just like other countries. It would’ve meant an order of magnitude fewer deaths and as we’ve seen in NZ lockdown ending far earlier.

I actually think that at the beginning, the mesage was (relatively) clear, and people obeyed it pretty well. Streets were deserted initially! What there hasn't been is clarity since. now in johnson's defence(! something that I feel very odd writing!) he wasn't actually around for part of it to deliver the message, but that stage was also, arguably, where it would have struck home most to people the necessity of following the rules. Since then, retrospective revalations, pick n mix policy, and the desire to leak stages to guage public opinion before delivering updates at times when they can't be effectively challenged by the opposition, has seen it unravel more and more. There was one update where it was a collective 'huh?!?' of what, actually, did it *mean*?!?