Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (3 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

I'm actually sympathetic to the first point. People clamouring for house arrest is... an interesting sociological event. That also makes me sympathetic towards protest as democracy requires government to be challenged and held to account, it also requires the disenfranchised to be allowed a chance to gain a voice. You can, of course, do the latter in a different way at present.

It's the chaos of the messaging I have most of an issue with!

Im generally quite the libertarian, but like war a pandemic is an exceptional event where the normal rules don’t apply.

A tight lockdown could’ve been achieved with more strict policing. Just like other countries. It would’ve meant an order of magnitude fewer deaths and as we’ve seen in NZ lockdown ending far earlier.

 

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[clint van damme]

All of it combined?

Yesterday we were (the 27 EU countries that is).
Even for just one day, that's horrendous.

 

[The coventrian]

Firstly - you have a point about mass gatherings and the effect they could have on the spread of the virus. I don’t know how you protest whilst remaining socially distant. Lockdown was ended by the government and their ‘leading by example’ actions. And as Brighton said - there have been lots of other examples of mass gatherings on beach and parks by people of all ages, skin colours and political persuasions.

Secondly - I didn’t realise you were personally provided with the data on their individual circumstances. I assume you’ll know if they are people that are claiming asylum, or refugees. But you won’t care regardless. You just see what you want to.

How many would you be willing to take in? That would be zero wouldn't it. We're in the middle of a pandemic ffs. We're the worst country in Europe so why would they want to come here?

 

[The coventrian]

Regarding the men vs women thing @The coventrian

I believe the idea is young men are more likely to make the dangerous journey across and then either send money back, or get asylum and bring their family over. That’s why it’s young men. The elderly and frail don’t tend to cling to rafts/the underside of lorries so well.

Total bollocks.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Im generally quite the libertarian, but like war a pandemic is an exceptional event where the normal rules don’t apply.

A tight lockdown could’ve been achieved with more strict policing. Just like other countries. It would’ve meant an order of magnitude fewer deaths and as we’ve seen in NZ lockdown ending far earlier.

I actually think that at the beginning, the mesage was (relatively) clear, and people obeyed it pretty well. Streets were deserted initially! What there hasn't been is clarity since. now in johnson's defence(! something that I feel very odd writing!) he wasn't actually around for part of it to deliver the message, but that stage was also, arguably, where it would have struck home most to people the necessity of following the rules. Since then, retrospective revalations, pick n mix policy, and the desire to leak stages to guage public opinion before delivering updates at times when they can't be effectively challenged by the opposition, has seen it unravel more and more. There was one update where it was a collective 'huh?!?' of what, actually, did it *mean*?!?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Greece's record in a day is 9. Still can't risk any of them coming here and spreading their non-infection

 

[Nick]

I actually think that at the beginning, the mesage was (relatively) clear, and people obeyed it pretty well. Streets were deserted initially! What there hasn't been is clarity since. now in johnson's defence(! something that I feel very odd writing!) he wasn't actually around for part of it to deliver the message, but that stage was also, arguably, where it would have struck home most to people the necessity of following the rules. Since then, retrospective revalations, pick n mix policy, and the desire to leak stages to guage public opinion before delivering updates at times when they can't be effectively challenged by the opposition, has seen it unravel more and more. There was one update where it was a collective 'huh?!?' of what, actually, did it *mean*?!?

Have they said anything has changed though? I am still the same as I was weeks ago with only going to the shop for essentials and coming to work and back. When the school tell me they are open then it will change slightly again.

It might be different if people are analysing every daily update but I at the minute the gym is shut, pubs are shut, sports centres are shut, no football etc. It's the same as it was weeks ago.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

This isn’t quite right TBF. Spain have developed a bat shit way of counting that saw their deaths drop from a couple of hundred to single figures overnight. In all likelihood their real figures would’ve put the 27 slightly ahead.

Even so, we are waaaaay out of kilter with the rest of the continent.

Apart from Sweden spookily enough.

Consider all these things against the assumption that they were always after herd immunity while maintaining a more publicly acceptable facade & not wanting to go so far as to overrun the NHS, and everything they've done makes sense.

And that therefore means that we can only judge the effectiveness of that strategy against the backdrop of a second wave in the rest of the world, which should in theory not impact us nearly as much because we have attained a level of immunity that only Sweden could also have at this point.

How they think this is possible with no vaccine is another matter, and hindsight suggests that it was a flawed plan- but none of this has been about a "full lockdown", it has patently been about a controlled attempt to get as many infected as 'safely' possible.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yesterday we were (the 27 EU countries that is).
Even for just one day, that's horrendous.

I thought there was no evidence at all that we were the worst

 

[PVA]

I wonder what we should do about Rees-Mogg? He’s made MP’s come back and anyone who saw footage from inside parliament yesterday would have seen social distancing inside parliament as bad as social distancing at a demonstration outside of parliament. You could actually argue that what Rees-Mogg organised is many times worse as parliament is an enclosed space whereas the demonstration was at least outside where the risk of spreading infection is greatly diminished. Just to be clear I’m not saying that makes the demonstration okay as far as social distancing is concerned, I’m far from happy with the scenes outside of parliament. I’m saying the scenes inside parliament was arguably far worse as far as risk of spreading the virus is concerned.

It was an absurd idea to begin with. The fact that one minister immediately came down with Covid symptoms is just the icing on the cake to really ram home how absurd the idea was.

Literally everything they do goes wrong. It'd almost be funny if the situation wasn't so serious.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Have they said anything has changed though?

Yes!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No just send them back.

Guess that's an upgrade on drowning them. What if they are genuinely seeking asylum?

 

[The coventrian]

Barry Gardiner. The good old hypocritical labour party. I assume he'll be asked to resign now?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was an absurd idea to begin with. The fact that one minister immediately came down with Covid symptoms is just the icing on the cake to really ram home how absurd the idea was.

Literally everything they do goes wrong. It'd almost be funny if the situation wasn't so serious.

In a few years' time it'll all be forgotten and their majority will go over 100

 

[David O'Day]

Guess that's an upgrade on drowning them. What if they are genuinely seeking asylum?

People just need to ignore that racist fuck.

Sounds well Tile Hill

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[Ring Of Steel]

Don't forget the 14 day quarantine makes total sense because we don't want a second spike and we'll make sure you get fined a grand but you can still go to the shop

I don't get quarantine at all, however is it because they suspect that each country has developed a different strain of the virus, and having a new variant of COVID now let loose would cause havoc, as opposed to the indigenous UK COVID which is now nicely spread all over the country thanks to the actions of the last couple of months

 

[PVA]

Barry Gardiner. The good old hypocritical labour party. I assume he'll be asked to resign now?

He should. But you can understand if he didn't - Cummings didn't so why should he? Tories have set the precedent now.

 

[The coventrian]

People just need to ignore that racist fuck.

Sounds well Tile Hill

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Says the willenhall chav who hates white people.

 

[Nick]

Yes!

What can I do now that I couldn't before? Is it actually confirmed?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What can I do now that I couldn't before? Is it actually confirmed?

ffs. You're proving the messaging has been feeble if you don't know.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

He should. But you can understand if he didn't - Cummings didn't so why should he? Tories have set the precedent now.

I have just read about Mr Gardiner- the first comparison when he's held against Mr Cummings is that he hasn't told a pack of lies and has done something which was in line with public feeling and with the aim of a better society. Cummings told a pack of lies, deliberately tried to hide his actions and acted in total & utter self interest showing contempt for other people.

However, no getting around it, at very minimum I'd say his boss needs to address it & take action or he's going to look pretty hypocritical. I don't see as he needs to totally throw him to the wolves, Cummings acted without integrity & took the country for fools- that was what caused the outrage.

 

[skybluetony176]

He should. But you can understand if he didn't - Cummings didn't so why should he? Tories have set the precedent now.

Truth is he was probably safer outside with the protesters than he was inside herded like cattle with all the MP’s forced to come in.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't get quarantine at all, however is it because they suspect that each country has developed a different strain of the virus, and having a new variant of COVID now let loose would cause havoc, as opposed to the indigenous UK COVID which is now nicely spread all over the country thanks to the actions of the last couple of months

I think this is COVID sans frontieres

 

[David O'Day]

He should. But you can understand if he didn't - Cummings didn't so why should he? Tories have set the precedent now.

What's he going to resign? He's not a front bencher.

Fuck me he is stupid




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[David O'Day]

Says the willenhall chav who hates white people.

I hate white people?

I'm so white you'd probably vote for me.

Ffs you goon

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[shmmeee]

Total bollocks.

What a well sourced and expertly argued opinion, I’m convinced.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What's he going to resign? He's not a fro t bencher.

Fuck me he is stupid




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Nah just put him on Gardining leave

 

[David O'Day]

What a well sourced and expertly argued opinion, I’m convinced.

It seems I hate white people even though I'm very very white

I'm so white I've got a Belle and Sebastian album on vinyl

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[shmmeee]

He should. But you can understand if he didn't - Cummings didn't so why should he? Tories have set the precedent now.

And Jenrick. And Kinnock.

They should be prosecuted we shouldn’t run the pandemic response on an honour system.

 

[Nick]

ffs. You're proving the messaging has been feeble if you don't know.

Im not disputing that, I just don't watch and analyse every announcement they make or claim to be an expert on manipulated graphs while comparing them to other countries that report differently.

I know that gatherings of family are now allowed in gardens etc but other than that, it's pretty much the same as the start. (Unless you are fighting a cause in which case you can do whatever the fuck you want and hide behind the cause. I can do what I want because I am showing love for the NHS)

 

[PVA]

I hate white people?

I'm so white you'd probably vote for me.

Ffs you goon

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It's like the other day when Grendel accused me of hating foreigners because I am pro freedom of movement.

They're a strange bunch the right

 

[shmmeee]

Im not disputing that, I just don't watch and analyse every announcement they make or claim to be an expert on manipulated graphs while comparing them to other countries that report differently.

I know that gatherings of family are now allowed in gardens etc but other than that, it's pretty much the same as the start. (Unless you are fighting a cause in which case you can do whatever the fuck you want and hide behind the cause. I can do what I want because I am showing love for the NHS)

“I’m not an expert but all that data is manipulated”

Couldn’t make it up.

 

[David O'Day]

It's like the other day when Grendel accused me of hating foreigners because I am pro freedom of movement.

They're a strange bunch the right

I'm Irish so I have see through skin.

It seems you hate white people if you think killing black folk is not a good thing.

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

And Jenrick. And Kinnock.

They should be prosecuted we shouldn’t run the pandemic response on an honour system.

When the clown resigns then we can discuss Gardiner

 

[David O'Day]

Coventrian and friends

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