Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which clearly is lockdown hasn’t ended - ikea is open
Government is responsible for the message it puts out.
Government is responsible for the message it puts out.
I am talking about the general consensus. Look at the aspect the media are pushing as well, look at the general reactions on here.
Lockdown and social distancing doesn't seem to apply if you are doing it for a "cause" it goes under the radar. Same weeks ago when dicks were acting up in supermarkets over some Pasta, it was OK because they "need to eat".
I am talking about the general consensus. Look at the aspect the media are pushing as well, look at the general reactions on here.
Lockdown and social distancing doesn't seem to apply if you are doing it for a "cause".
ffsHave they said Lockdown has finished? Granted, I don't watch the daily news briefs.
The scale of outrage is different as you know - now of course conveniently lockdown has ended - that’s odd. Most shops are still closed, the ones that are open have queues outside everywhere, sport is off, concerts off, pubs and cafes closed
I’ll amazed people on here aren’t demanding the resignation of Barry Gardiner. At least Nandy and even Lammy have put the boot in - will be interesting if Starmer removes the whip
This is what was relayed to teachers in Wales yesterday.
All schools in wales are to open for all years on June 29th until july 27th a week into summer hols and then open again sept1st with an extra week off for october half term. No more than a third of school at any one time. More details next week. ... bit different to what we thought they would do... I can imagine this would be a huge logistical nightmare for heads!
what has Gardiner done?
what has Gardiner done?
From what I recall the general consensus was all gathering are stupid. Be it on the beach, on a bridge, or at a protest. The only person I’ve seen suggesting otherwise and making a distinction is you TBH.
Really? Main news today
By the same logic they use, Grendel etc. are obviously fine with it...
By the same logic they use, Grendel etc. are obviously fine with it...
There’s also the fact that the lockdown hasn’t been policed at all, and that’s because of direction from the government. At the start they were policing it and right wing Twitter got all up in arms about the police state. Government ministers started telling the police off for enforcing the law.
Then the absolute mess of messaging. Vulnerable people are allowed out despite us still being at level 4 apparently. Sports starting up. Dates given for pubs to be open soon. Retrospectively changing the rules to allow people to use their “instinct”. Bringing back Parliament despite them being able to work from home.
Not at all and I think it’s far more likely to spread infection than a road trip to Durham
You complain about nobody complaining about certain figures' actions, but seem happy for those who set the tone to be disengenuous, unclear, and contradictory.
The deflection onto nonentities absolves people of responsibility.
Assuming this is G coming back with his fishing rod. Wonder if he now accepts we are the worst for deaths in Europe
we are worse for deaths than Europe!
What it does highlight is how easily the virus could be potentially spread.
Gardiner would have been in Parliament earlier in the week - Alok Sharma has a suspected case and has been tested. Parliament struggled to socially distance because of the absurd voting nonsense so it’s perfectly plausible that the virus could have been transmitted. He’s then gone to this protest where again social distancing isn’t happening and again could potentially transmit it.
You complain about nobody complaining about certain figures' actions, but seem happy for those who set the tone to be disengenuous, unclear, and contradictory.
The deflection onto nonentities absolves people of responsibility.
Why are we pretending that the government don’t set the rules here?
If they wanted to they could make it clear people need to be prosecuted for this stuff. But that would mean throwing their favourite advisor under the bus so they don’t. Same as when they wanted a fall guy from SAGE suddenly breaking lockdown was serious, until someone they liked broke it then it was all fuzzy and about using your judgement.
You want to talk hypocrisy and politicisation that’s where to start.
I'm actually sympathetic to the first point. People clamouring for house arrest is... an interesting sociological event. That also makes me sympathetic towards protest as democracy requires government to be challenged and held to account, it also requires the disenfranchised to be allowed a chance to gain a voice. You can, of course, do the latter in a different way at present.There’s also the fact that the lockdown hasn’t been policed at all, and that’s because of direction from the government. At the start they were policing it and right wing Twitter got all up in arms about the police state. Government ministers started telling the police off for enforcing the law.
Then the absolute mess of messaging. Vulnerable people are allowed out despite us still being at level 4 apparently. Sports starting up. Dates given for pubs to be open soon. Retrospectively changing the rules to allow people to use their “instinct”. Bringing back Parliament despite them being able to work from home.
No just send them back.There's also been loads of arseholes going to the beach or Brighton pier though yes the mass protests yesterday also had them.
We all know your solution to those trying to get in across the Channel. Should we have shot their dinghies?
I'm actually sympathetic to the first point. People clamouring for house arrest is... an interesting sociological event. That also makes me sympathetic towards protest as democracy requires government to be challenged and held to account, it also requires the disenfranchised to be allowed a chance to gain a voice. You can, of course, do the latter in a different way at present.
It's the chaos of the messaging I have most of an issue with!
All of it combined?
How many would you be willing to take in? That would be zero wouldn't it. We're in the middle of a pandemic ffs. We're the worst country in Europe so why would they want to come here?Firstly - you have a point about mass gatherings and the effect they could have on the spread of the virus. I don’t know how you protest whilst remaining socially distant. Lockdown was ended by the government and their ‘leading by example’ actions. And as Brighton said - there have been lots of other examples of mass gatherings on beach and parks by people of all ages, skin colours and political persuasions.
Secondly - I didn’t realise you were personally provided with the data on their individual circumstances. I assume you’ll know if they are people that are claiming asylum, or refugees. But you won’t care regardless. You just see what you want to.
Total bollocks.Regarding the men vs women thing @The coventrian
I believe the idea is young men are more likely to make the dangerous journey across and then either send money back, or get asylum and bring their family over. That’s why it’s young men. The elderly and frail don’t tend to cling to rafts/the underside of lorries so well.
I actually think that at the beginning, the mesage was (relatively) clear, and people obeyed it pretty well. Streets were deserted initially! What there hasn't been is clarity since. now in johnson's defence(! something that I feel very odd writing!) he wasn't actually around for part of it to deliver the message, but that stage was also, arguably, where it would have struck home most to people the necessity of following the rules. Since then, retrospective revalations, pick n mix policy, and the desire to leak stages to guage public opinion before delivering updates at times when they can't be effectively challenged by the opposition, has seen it unravel more and more. There was one update where it was a collective 'huh?!?' of what, actually, did it *mean*?!?Im generally quite the libertarian, but like war a pandemic is an exceptional event where the normal rules don’t apply.
A tight lockdown could’ve been achieved with more strict policing. Just like other countries. It would’ve meant an order of magnitude fewer deaths and as we’ve seen in NZ lockdown ending far earlier.
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