Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (8 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

What I don’t understand is why not do all this yesterday before the working week started. How many people have gone to work today and then before the working day finishes find out that they should be at home? Happened to me at the beginning of the first wave.

Had a daughter displaying symptoms over the weekend before lockdown, went to work Monday morning as per usual following the advice of the government and before I finished work I was being told that I should self isolate for 2 weeks. Don’t believe I or my daughter had it on that occasion but potentially I could have given it to 7 people, one of who has health complications and had to shield.

Why not do this at the weekend? Doesn’t make any common sense.

It can only be lack of confidence in their ability to give answers. Surely the sensible thing to do is announce Sat night for the Sunday papers then do the rounds of Sunday shows explaining it?

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Van Tam says those under 16 have minimal role in infection. So fucking let me do my job properly then

 

[chiefdave]

Yes because the government are not going to go for a strategy of onboarding and setting up supply chain, logistics networks, payment terms, onboarding, etc., for ten companies when they can get the same volume with one company are they? So I am not suprised they didn't get a response.

How have they established that there isn't any existing suppliers who can meet the demand if they aren't even speaking to any of them? Do you not find it odd that existing suppliers that cover both manufacture in the UK and import are considered by the government unable to meet this demand to the point they don't even have a conversation with them while multiple newly formed companies, who just happen to have links back to the government, are handed huge contracts. Seemingly with no penalty when they fail to fulfil them or when they product delivered is of a poor standard and unusable?

I said the medpro deal is a non story yes. Are you unable to separate them in your head?

It would be fair to separate them if this was an outlier. But it isn't. There's a clear pattern here which would be of concern at the best of times let alone when the result is frontline workers not having what they need to work safely during the pandemic.

Also, nobody said they couldn't supply product to the required standard, I just said they weren't accredited with the CE standard.

This just illustrates the issue you're arguing against. Existing companies not able to get a response from the government or being tied up in red tape while those with the right connections get fast tracked.

Again, not surprised there's not a formal tender process and I believe that was quite publicly explained that there was no time. Those processes can take months. Clearly time was of the essence here. You say newly setup companies with no track record - how do you know that the manufacturer (after all, that's what's important rather than a middle man surely) has no track record or experience?

Don't think anyone would be complaining about the lack of a tender process if there was a successful end result that stood up to scrutiny. The concerns are because contracts are being handed out seemingly not based on competence or suitability but based purely on having a connection to the government. And time and time again it later emerges that the companies in question are unable to deliver what they promised. Of course the 'time is of the essence' argument links back to another issue where the government decided to ignore the results of Operation Cygnus which flagged up exactly these issues.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What the fuck are you talking about? It's not guilty until proven innocent is it? What EVIDENCE (nice and shouty for you) is there than the other company is able to meet it's stated targets? Your argument is ridiculous. You have no idea about the MedPro producer and what their reputation or trading history is. You have no idea what the criteria was for the supplier selection.

So as I said before if I set up a company and say i can provide 1m bits of equipment i assume they'd just give me the contract wouldn't they? No time to check as it's urgent. I say I can do it now give me the money.

One thing you constantly never bring up is the numerous previous examples of this exact same behaviour with very similar companies and the outcomes of them such as the Turkey PPE fiasco, track and trace etc. You use previous behaviour to predict future behaviour. And that shows that this is far more likely to be giving money to their mates rather than to established businesses with a track record.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Because they are importing from an accredited producer and obviously have significantly bigger volume commitments on offer than the "long established PPE supplier" (beauty gown supplier that is) who was able to offer 40k gowns per month. The awarded supplier was able to offer 25 million gowns per year.
Non story really

Different thing to being able to deliver. You'd think you'd remember that give the issues we had getting the PPE at the start of the pandemic from companies very like the one given this contract.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s not is it, it’s that specific example I spoke about and you’ve tried your best to twist that into me saying the government have acted perfectly in every single Procurement exercise they’ve ever carried out.

Classic straw man argument because you couldn’t say anything about the actual case being discussed.

I’m out

So do you think all previous conduct and awarding of contracts should just be excluded from the thinking?

If so, I've heard there's this guy called James who's doing a free booze cruise to games in London after the pandemic- I reckon you'd be interested. OK, some people might say he's done it before and it's not been what he sold it as. Others might say he's put on coaches that haven't turned up before. But they're totally separate incidents to the one he's doing now so you shouldn't let that affect your thinking.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Doesn’t make any common sense.

Yep....zero common sense, no rhyme, no reason & way too much fucking dithering around to be honest......if you're gonna do it, get on & do it FFS.

Even Joe Anderson was calling for a full lockdown in Liverpool over 2 weeks ago when the infection rate was less than 250/100k......and yet here we are....still waiting for some kind of decision, any sort of action, with the rate rapidly approaching 700/100k.

We'll be locked down to fucking Xmas now.....

sigh...as mondays go, this is a particular c**t so far...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

if you're gonna do it, get on & do it FFS.

Yup. That's one thing we'd have surely learned from last time. Do it or, frankly, why bother after the event?

 

[djr8369]

Had a nice simple message, protect the NHS.

Now we seem to be protecting the NHS / protecting the economy / allowing for eye test trips / keeping schools and universities open etc. etc.

I've no real idea what our strategy is just atm. Maybe it'll become clearer at 3pm(!)

The strategy seems to be take random, relatively light measures while hoping for the best, despite the weight of overwhelming evidence that the “strategy” isn’t working.
For me, the biggest failure is the lack of preparation done over the summer while we were doing OK. There’s no real plan for uni students, no backup plan for schools. The delayed app is poor. The messaging became incoherent etc.

 

[skybluetony176]

I see a new one has come to light today. Basically a contract for face masks given to a company without tender who’s owners/management have links to Liz Truss. The government overpaid for the masks by a whopping £30+ million. Just to be clear this is above the governments own figures of what they’ve been paying during the pandemic.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The strategy seems to be take random, relatively light measures while hoping for the best, despite the weight of overwhelming evidence that the “strategy” isn’t working.
For me, the biggest failure is the lack of preparation done over the summer while we were doing OK. There’s no real plan for uni students, no backup plan for schools. The delayed app is poor. The messaging became incoherent etc.

It was bad enough first time when we had the heads-up with places like Spain and italy and decided to ignore it thinking we'd just be able to gain economically from it. They put their ideology ahead of prudence with the pubic health. But it also may have been that they didn't think it was that bad and misjudged it

This is truly incompetent. Despite all the evidence and warnings from the first wave and the fears that a resurgence in winter would be even worse with flu going around they've done very little to nothing to improve the situation and have arguably made it worse with the insistence on opening up the economy, schools, unis etc without putting in proper measures or trying to put together alternatives.

I'm not saying it's an easy thing to do given the immediacy needed with most of their actions, nor that anyone else would've had a better outcome even if they'd done it differently. It's just the apparent lack of desire to even think about how things could change to make things work better and more safely, let alone how that could be used to formulate a better way of living after the crisis. It's just 'this how we do things and we must get back to that'.

A truly cynical person would argue the mixed messaging has been deliberate to make people largely give up and just carry on as normal, thus giving the govt what they want and a scapegoat in the public for not following guidelines.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I see a new one has come to light today. Basically a contract for face masks given to a company without tender who’s owners/management have links to Liz Truss. The government overpaid for the masks by a whopping £30+ million. Just to be clear this is above the governments own figures of what they’ve been paying during the pandemic.

But that's just one specific case. It doesn't mean any of the rest are like that. Except for all the ones that are.

 

[Skybluefaz]

 

[skybluetony176]

But that's just one specific case. It doesn't mean any of the rest are like that. Except for all the ones that are.

This lot are doing some sterling work on it. They’re keeping us in the dark - Good Law Project
It’s them who’s just connected the dots on this latest one involving Liz Truss’ mates.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

There are now more people in hospital with Covid-19 than there were when the UK went into lockdown in March...

 

[skybluetony176]

There are now more people in hospital with Covid-19 than there were when the UK went into lockdown in March...

Although that is a worrying statistic I think the NHS is much better placed to deal with it from better treatments, more respirators, other forms of breathing assistance that negates the use of respirators and the extra work involved in keeping people on respirators, adequate and available PPE etc. Not that any of that should cause complacency.

 

[David O'Day]

There are now more people in hospital with Covid-19 than there were when the UK went into lockdown in March...

That to be fair is a given as we're just had 2 to 3 weeks of a load more cases each day.

The singing and shouting thing is bollocks as pubs have banned that

Van Tam is clownshoe

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Although that is a worrying statistic I think the NHS is much better placed to deal with it from better treatments, more respirators, other forms of breathing assistance that negates the use of respirators and the extra work involved in keeping people on respirators, adequate and available PPE etc. Not that any of that should cause complacency.

It certainly puts to bed any hopes it's any less virulant now than in March, however.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Incidentally, did he really say that the rate hadn't died down as much in the North when we relaxed lockdown, and that's why they're suffering now?

 

[chiefdave]

Van Tam says those under 16 have minimal role in infection. So fucking let me do my job properly then

Did he give anymore information as that seems at odds with most things I've read recently.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

How are they even tracking it in schools? We know most infected kids aren't symptomatic and if you don't have symptoms you don't get a test. Add in that track and trace have been told not to follow up cases from educational environments makes me wonder what data they have.

Doesn't it also make a pretty strong case for closing 6th forms and universities? There was some data on this thread before the weekend showing that cases linked to educational establishments dwarfed places like pubs. If they're saying those aren't linked to U16s then surely you have to be looking at shut downs in over 16s education.

 

[chiefdave]

Incidentally, did he really say that the rate hadn't died down as much in the North when we relaxed lockdown, and that's why they're suffering now?

I've got nothing to back this up but did the numbers not drop as far in places where manufacturing or other roles that can't be done from home are more prominent? Hope they aren't trying to send a message that stupid northerners didn't follow the rules so its their own fault.

 

[Jamesimus]

Clocked this in the news earlier...

"In China, Qingdao's population of nine million will be tested for Covid-19 over five days after 12 cases"

Now I know China / the Chinese government has done its own fair share of questionable things.

But even if something like this virus originated over here, do you think this current government could get even close to organising testing on that scale?!

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Incidentally, did he really say that the rate hadn't died down as much in the North when we relaxed lockdown, and that's why they're suffering now?

I posted this a week or so back......Andy Burnham & Steve Rotherham warned of the dangers of releasing lockdown too soon back in the summer as the North West was lagging London & SE by about 3 weeks........but what would the Regional leaders & directors of public health know eh?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I posted this a week or so back......Andy Burnham & Steve Rotherham warned of the dangers of releasing lockdown too soon back in the summer as the North West was lagging London & SE by about 3 weeks........but what would the Regional leaders & directors of public health know eh?

That's the frustrating thing nationally, that we seemed to be only a couple of weeks from knocking the rates back to where the likes of Italy were but, because they were opening up, we decided to as well!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeh, you're right. Don't know much about public procurement. Know a bit about private though, but i'm just going on the information that is out there which apparently everyone else is able to jump to chunky conclusions with...

The key thing your argument is ignorant of is that these contracts were awarded without competition. So all the theory about what was the better offer is redundant, there were no offers.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

 

[chiefdave]

Following the science

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Government scraps ballet dancer reskilling ad criticised as 'crass'

Culture secretary distanced himself from widely mocked poster amid job losses in arts

www.theguardian.com

 

[djr8369]

Ffs

 

[chiefdave]

Government scraps ballet dancer reskilling ad criticised as 'crass'

Culture secretary distanced himself from widely mocked poster amid job losses in arts

www.theguardian.com

To be fair its an old ad but it does give an idea of what careers they view as not worthwhile.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

To be fair its an old ad but it does give an idea of what careers they view as not worthwhile.

I'll withdraw the criticism then.

But still leave it lying around that clearly we're heading for a patronage system again. Write what the monied tell you to...

 

[fernandopartridge]

Sounds like the tier system will be reverse engineered so that it bears no real relationship to the growth of the virus.

Meanwhile, what's happening with the Track and Trace service?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've been inspired to create a sketch called 'Keane as mustard' based around the exploits of DI Bobby Keane, an inspector who ignores the obvious (and eventual) perpetrator to follow unlikely or ludicrous leads.

PC: Guv, I've made a breakthrough in that case of the old couple that were hacked to death with an axe!
Keane: Oh, Vic and Tim. Terrible tragedy. So what you got PC Gonmad?
PC: Well guv, I've found out that the guy that lives opposite is using a new identity.
Keane: Really?
PC: Yeah. His real name's Edward Dunnitt and he did 20 years in prison for killing three old people with an axe after they'd changed their wills to make him the sole beneficiary. Guess who's the beneficiary this time?
Keane: Is that all you've got?
PC: No. We've got CCTV footage of Dunnit buying an axe two days before the murder!
Keane: So you're telling me E. Dunnitt?
PC: Yes guv.
Keane:Come on PC Gonmad, that's making some massive jumps.
PC: How so?
Keane: Well, if he's done it three times before why would he do it again? Doesn't add up.
PC: But guv!
Keane: No, sorry son but you're going up a blind alley with that one. Now where's that lady from Help the Aged that found the bodies right now?
PC: You mean Patsy? Patsy Dogooder? She's usually at the local homeless shelter this time of day giving out meals or help sort out the food bank.
Keane: Yeah, her. Get down there and bring her in. 'm gonna squeeze her like a lemon cos she's definitely hiding something.
PC: Like what?
Keane: Come on son. She found the bodies AND reported them to the police. Nah, too clean. I don't buy it.
PC: But she's got an alibi. She was in a supermarket five miles away. A dozen people and the store CCTV confirm she was there at the time of the murders.
Keane: Exactly. Bloody convenient don't you think. Now go and bring her in - I'm gonna put that Dogooder bitch in prison if it's the last thing I do!

*Similarities to any individuals living, dead or online are entirely coincidental*

 

[David O'Day]

Looks like it will just be Merseyside that has any extra measures

 

[David O'Day]