Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

I know of a fair few who have left from a normal state school to go private. Shmee also says a fair few from his daughter's class "My daughter’s primary half the class left in January to go to Henry’s for example, as they do every year."

How come we have a shortage of school spaces if that many kids are moving from state to private. Surely if literally half the class leaves they need more pupils to replace them?

If classes are at 50% capacity aren't they in danger of being merged into other schools?

 

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[Nick]

How come we have a shortage of school spaces if that many kids are moving from state to private. Surely if literally half the class leaves they need more pupils to replace them?

If classes are at 50% capacity aren't they in danger of being merged into other schools?

The question should probably be why are they moving them?

I'm not sure the classes stay at 50% capacity though. I don't know if it is "half the class" but I know a good few people who have done it, mainly because they were pissed off with the schooling system and felt their kid was being let down. None of them use it as a "status" thing, I bet there's plenty who send their kids that people don't even know about.

 

[Grendel]

Have those parents that can no longer afford private school fees considered simply cancelling Netflix and eating less avocados?

Or have they tried simply working harder and being more aspirational?

Or like you get to benefit from free selective education

 

[Nick]

Have those parents that can no longer afford private school fees considered simply cancelling Netflix and eating less avocados?

Or have they tried simply working harder and being more aspirational?

The funny thing is, there are probably plenty who are cracking on and doing just that

Jealousy isn't a nice trait.

 

[PVA]

Or like you get to benefit from free selective education

Sorry I passed my eleven plus.

If only I'd known that in 20 odd years time some weirdo on an Internet forum would use it against me

 

[PVA]

The funny thing is, there are probably plenty who are cracking on and doing just that

Jealousy isn't a nice trait.

I'm not remotely jealous of anyone at private school or anyone who sends their kids to private school. I don't know why you keep using that.

 

[Nick]

I'm not remotely jealous of anyone at private school or anyone who sends their kids to private school. I don't know why you keep using that.

I am, I wish I had had the chance to go to one to be fair.

Is it just the smug digs that you like thinking that everybody who does is "rich"?

 

[PVA]

I am, I wish I had had the chance to go to one to be fair.

Is it just the smug digs that you like thinking that everybody who does is "rich"?

The only digs I'm making are that they should pay VAT.

If someone wants to send their kid to private school that's fine I don't care either way, but there should be tax on it.

That's my only issue with it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh then no worries. I’m really not sure what your point is. You’ve got some weird issue with schools, we’ve seen that in other threads. There’s literally nothing wrong with Earlsdon Primary FFS don’t be ridiculous. “Not doing their kids justice” get a grip.

Here’s the Ofsted while she was there. I’d compare to Henry’s but private schools don’t get inspected so I can’t. Wonder why. After all they’re doing so much justice

https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50148820

Private schools have ISI inspections. Generally a lot kinder than Ofsted.

 

[shmmeee]

Private schools have ISI inspections. Generally a lot kinder than Ofsted.

Not at all comparable though. No overall judgement and mostly there as a PR exercise for the school.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not at all comparable though. No overall judgement and mostly there as a PR exercise for the school.

Don’t have to be qualified to teach either

 

[shmmeee]

Don’t have to be qualified to teach either

Same in state schools these days thanks to the Tories. Anything to avoid paying market rate for staff

 

[Nick]

Oh then no worries. I’m really not sure what your point is. You’ve got some weird issue with schools, we’ve seen that in other threads. There’s literally nothing wrong with Earlsdon Primary FFS don’t be ridiculous. “Not doing their kids justice” get a grip.

Here’s the Ofsted while she was there. I’d compare to Henry’s but private schools don’t get inspected so I can’t. Wonder why. After all they’re doing so much justice

https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50148820

So why is half the class moving?

Hardly a weird thing to have an issue with something when it comes to your kids education and a place they go to for about 14 years of their life growing up, is it?

 

[shmmeee]

So why is half the class moving?

Hardly a weird thing to have an issue with something when it comes to your kids education and a place they go to for about 14 years of their life growing up, is it?

Because rich people like to buy advantage Nick. There’s no evidence the quality of education is any better. From those I’ve known they generally directly paying for grades.

 

[Grendel]

Because rich people like to buy advantage Nick. There’s no evidence the quality of education is any better. From those I’ve known they generally directly paying for grades.

Everybody buys advantage,

There are still some areas of the country that still have selected state education. Parents pay to coach children to get into those places.

In areas where there is only comprehensives the schools that perform better are generally in the better areas of the City. The selection is in the area and house prices reflect the education quality.

Lets be honest if Dumbo Philipson really wanted equality from the next school year there would be a lottery and children would be sent where they would be drawn out a hat in the City - so the Finham child could end up in The Grace Academy and vica versa.

I doubt that would meet with very much approval somehow.

 

[Nick]

Because rich people like to buy advantage Nick. There’s no evidence the quality of education is any better. From those I’ve known they generally directly paying for grades.

That's absolute nonsense though isn't it? Define, "Rich" people?

Like I said, I know a fair few who's kids go to the ones in Cov and you wouldn't really say they were "rich" and probably would have no clue their kids went there. One of them drives a Mondeo still.

If there's no difference, surely they aren't buying buying an advantage?

From my experience of going to, working in, having mates with kids in different state schools and private there is a huge amount of evidence that the education is better. People aren't paying 15K a year because they are wiping their arses with 50s and need to get rid of some cash. The vast majority of the people I know who send their kids to them is because they weren't happy with the state schools they were in.

Whack kid A in Ash Green or Nico and then whack another Kid A in Bablake or Henrys and tell me there's no difference after 4 years.

 

[SBT]

That's absolute nonsense though isn't it? Define, "Rich" people?

Like I said, I know a fair few who's kids go to the ones in Cov and you wouldn't really say they were "rich" and probably would have no clue their kids went there. One of them drives a Mondeo still.

If a family is spending £15k a year on a single discretionary item then I’d say it’s pretty likely they’re rich, whether or not they drive a Mondeo. Hard-working people with ordinary accents and crap cars can still be rich, they don’t have to resemble the Monopoly Man.

 

[Grendel]

If a family is spending £15k a year on a single discretionary item then I’d say it’s pretty likely they’re rich, whether or not they drive a Mondeo. Hard-working people with ordinary accents and crap cars can still be rich, they don’t have to resemble the Monopoly Man.

I cashed in my endowments and remortgaged my house to pay the fees.

 

[SBT]

I cashed in my endowments and remortgaged my house to pay the fees.

How many non-rich people are able to do that?

 

[Grendel]

How many non-rich people are able to do that?

Well clearly a lot. You use the asset value of your property. I have also known some who took loans out.

I am still paying a mortgage when it should have been paid up 12 years ago and it has 8 years to run.

I am not actually that bothered about the VAT issue other than the face that people who send children into the private sector still have no tax break for not sending them to the State Sector. I think some countries such as Australia do that so it minimises the burden on the state.

The NI changes will mean fees will escalate far more anyway, Its a total headache for me let alone businesses that employ many people.

 

[SBT]

Well clearly a lot. You use the asset value of your property. I have also known some who took loans out.

I am still paying a mortgage when it should have been paid up 12 years ago and it has 8 years to run.

I’m agnostic about how you acquire the wealth - maybe you have one high-paid job, maybe you toil in several low-paid jobs, or maybe you sit on your arse and inherit the lot. Maybe you leverage assets like homes and endowments instead. But if you’re spending that kind of money every year on one discretionary item - and I don’t care whether it’s education or cocaine - then you’re most surely rich.

 

[Grendel]

I’m agnostic about how you acquire the wealth - maybe you have one high-paid job, maybe you toil in several low-paid jobs, or maybe you sit on your arse and inherit the lot. Maybe you leverage assets like homes and endowments instead. But if you’re spending that kind of money every year on one discretionary item - and I don’t care whether it’s education or cocaine - then you’re most surely rich.

You are borrowing and not spending your disposable income - so by any definition you are not rich.

 

[Nick]

If a family is spending £15k a year on a single discretionary item then I’d say it’s pretty likely they’re rich, whether or not they drive a Mondeo. Hard-working people with ordinary accents and crap cars can still be rich, they don’t have to resemble the Monopoly Man.

Define "rich".

I know people who spend thousands on holidays and car payments a year. Are they "rich"?

If somebody chooses to have a £400 a month mortgage but send their kid to private school as opposed to somebody who has a £1200 a month mortgage and a brand new car, then are they both rich?

 

[SBT]

You are borrowing and not spending your disposable income - so by any definition you are not rich.

Private school fees ARE disposable income, aren’t they?

 

[SBT]

Define "rich".

I know people who spend thousands on holidays and car payments a year. Are they "rich"?

They sound like they’re doing alright to me

 

[Grendel]

Private school fees ARE disposable income, aren’t they?

Not if the person paying them is funding through external borrowing no.

How do you define being rich?

 

[Nick]

They sound like they’re doing alright to me

Is £65k-£70k between 2 in a household salary income classed as rich? I would have thought that was more "average".

Guess it depends on the definition of "rich" nowadays.

To me I'd say "rich" is somebody who wouldn't have to worry about money or have to make any sacrifices for things like that. (Which I agree would be the type of people sending kids to Eton)

 

[SBT]

Is £65k-£70k between 2 in a household salary income classed as rich? I would have thought that was more "average".

Guess it depends on the definition of "rich" nowadays.

To me I'd say "rich" is somebody who wouldn't have to worry about money or have to make any sacrifices for things like that. (Which I agree would be the type of people sending kids to Eton)

I mean the average salary is what, £37k, but given that not every household has both parents working then I imagine £70k would be an above-average household income.

I think it’s easy to get hung up on trying to define what “rich” means but a household like that which is devoting about a quarter of their gross annual income to one single discretionary item clearly does not have to worry about money or make sacrifices, even if it is in this case choosing to do so.

 

[Nick]

I mean the average salary is what, £37k, but given that not every household has both parents working then I imagine £70k would be an above-average household income.

I think it’s easy to get hung up on trying to define what “rich” means but a household like that which is devoting about a quarter of their gross annual income to one single discretionary item clearly does not have to worry about money or make sacrifices, even if it is in this case choosing to do so.

Well yeah, they clearly do have to worry a lot and have to make huge sacrifices for it.

It's bad times if a household where each parent earns £35k is "rich" in this day and age. I'd say that's probably about average for both parents in full time work. Would people be labelled as "rich" if they had a hefty mortgage instead?

Let's face it, you have no idea about the sacrifices that people on an average wage would make to send their kid to one.

 

[Grendel]

I mean the average salary is what, £37k, but given that not every household has both parents working then I imagine £70k would be an above-average household income.

I think it’s easy to get hung up on trying to define what “rich” means but a household like that which is devoting about a quarter of their gross annual income to one single discretionary item clearly does not have to worry about money or make sacrifices, even if it is in this case choosing to do so.

Well in theory you could earn £37k a year and live in a tent and pay school fees couldn’t you?

 

[Nick]

Well in theory you could earn £37k a year and live in a tent and pay school fees couldn’t you?

Rich bastards. Probably got Bezos round for some soup from the stove.

 

[SBT]

Well yeah, they clearly do have to worry a lot and have to make huge sacrifices for it.

It's bad times if a household where each parent earns £35k is "rich" in this day and age. I'd say that's probably about average for both parents in full time work. Would people be labelled as "rich" if they had a hefty mortgage instead?

They don’t have to worry or make sacrifices - they choose to. Pretty key difference.

A household with two parents each earning £35k and two kids is around the 74th percentile in terms of income but you can do your own working out if you like: Your household's income : Where do you fit in? | Institute for Fiscal Studies

 

[Nick]

They don’t have to worry or make sacrifices - they choose to. Pretty key difference.

Interesting. Must remember that when people go on about kids school dinners and breakfasts. It's all a choice.

I have no doubt there are some very poor people who really are struggling, using your logic though a lot of it is choice.

 

[shmmeee]

That's absolute nonsense though isn't it? Define, "Rich" people?

Like I said, I know a fair few who's kids go to the ones in Cov and you wouldn't really say they were "rich" and probably would have no clue their kids went there. One of them drives a Mondeo still.

If there's no difference, surely they aren't buying buying an advantage?

From my experience of going to, working in, having mates with kids in different state schools and private there is a huge amount of evidence that the education is better. People aren't paying 15K a year because they are wiping their arses with 50s and need to get rid of some cash. The vast majority of the people I know who send their kids to them is because they weren't happy with the state schools they were in.

Whack kid A in Ash Green or Nico and then whack another Kid A in Bablake or Henrys and tell me there's no difference after 4 years.

Now whack them in Finham or Blue Coat rather than picking a sink school.

I’m sorry I know you’re desperate to pretend that private schools are attended by the kids of minimum wage workers who skip the odd coffee but the data just doesn’t back you up. It is overwhelmingly the ultra wealthy.

 

[shmmeee]

Interesting. Must remember that when people go on about kids school dinners and breakfasts. It's all a choice.

I have no doubt there are some very poor people who really are struggling, using your logic though a lot of it is choice.

Private school is a luxury good. You get schooling for free in this country. No one “needs” it. That’s why we tax it!