Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

[Nick]

Now whack them in Finham or Blue Coat rather than picking a sink school.

I’m sorry I know you’re desperate to pretend that private schools are attended by the kids of minimum wage workers who skip the odd coffee but the data just doesn’t back you up. It is overwhelmingly the ultra wealthy.

Nobody has said minimum wage workers.

Again though, you are going straight in at the top end of Eton where it's ultra wealthy and worlds apart from the ones around here. I'd agree that Eton, Harrow and those sorts are ultra wealthy.

I'm not on about using "data", Im talking about real life examples around here. I'm not trying to claim people who send their kids to Eton and were planned for Eton because of 10 generations aren't wealthy.

 

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[Grendel]

Private school is a luxury good. You get schooling for free in this country. No one “needs” it. That’s why we tax it!

If there is a post that screams politics of envy this is it

What a sad bitter and angry man you are

 

[Grendel]

Now whack them in Finham or Blue Coat rather than picking a sink school.

I’m sorry I know you’re desperate to pretend that private schools are attended by the kids of minimum wage workers who skip the odd coffee but the data just doesn’t back you up. It is overwhelmingly the ultra wealthy.

Blue Coats is a selective school that recruits children not on postcode but ability you total

 

[shmmeee]

Nobody has said minimum wage workers.

Again though, you are going straight in at the top end of Eton where it's ultra wealthy and worlds apart from the ones around here. I'd agree that Eton, Harrow and those sorts are ultra wealthy.

I'm not on about using "data", Im talking about real life examples around here. I'm not trying to claim people who send their kids to Eton and were planned for Eton because of 10 generations aren't wealthy.

But across the piece it’s mostly very wealthy families. Not just Eton but Warwick and Rugby and others across the country. We have the data on parental income we know it’s 90% top 5% wealth.

 

[Nick]

Private school is a luxury good. You get schooling for free in this country. No one “needs” it. That’s why we tax it!

Yeah maybe it's not life or death, however there are a lot of cases where it is needed if a parent wants the best for their kid(s).

Scenario 1.

Extremely bright kid, sits in class and does all of the work they are given at Primary School. Teachers have no time for them, they always say they wish they could spend all day with kids like it but they just can't as their time is taken up by kids who are just little pricks (Im not talking kids with actual conditions or special needs, just ones where the parents think the school is just a babysitter). The school have no clue what to do with the child, they put them in with kids a year above and they still get bored and are top of that class too. Perfectly well behaved, respectful, polite and actually love learning.

Do the parents sit and watch their kid be dragged down for the rest of their school life? they have been in to speak to the head teacher multiple times about the concerns but they aren't arsed, they couldn't even tell which kid it is because they go under the radar. They only know Jayden, Kayden, Mayden, Fayden, Gaydon, Yaydon who's dad is in prison,Mum will never work a day in their life and the kids have been doomed to fail from the moment they left their dad's ballsack.

Scenario 2.

Kids with actual SEN, I know somebody who sent their kid private because they had ADHD and slight autism and they just couldn't deal with mainstream school and the environment. Yeah they didn't "need" private school and weren't eligible for a special school (and probably wasn't right for them) but Private offered much better facilities for their needs, smaller class sizes let them thrive etc. Better setups for SEND kids and a lot more ability to give them a better support plan and work with them.


Neither kid was going to die if they didn't have it, however they would have just spend 16 years of their life just coasting by rather than being pushed.

 

[Nick]

But across the piece it’s mostly very wealthy families. Not just Eton but Warwick and Rugby and others across the country. We have the data on parental income we know it’s 90% top 5% wealth.

I have literally given examples.

Yes, you will have Jacob Rees Moggs. I'm not on about them.

The envy is terrible.

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah maybe it's not life or death, however there are a lot of cases where it is needed if a parent wants the best for their kid(s).

Scenario 1.

Extremely bright kid, sits in class and does all of the work they are given at Primary School. Teachers have no time for them, they always say they wish they could spend all day with kids like it but they just can't as their time is taken up by kids who are just little pricks (Im not talking kids with actual conditions or special needs, just ones where the parents think the school is just a babysitter). The school have no clue what to do with the child, they put them in with kids a year above and they still get bored and are top of that class too. Perfectly well behaved, respectful, polite and actually love learning.

Do the parents sit and watch their kid be dragged down for the rest of their school life? they have been in to speak to the head teacher multiple times about the concerns but they aren't arsed, they couldn't even tell which kid it is because they go under the radar. They only know Jayden, Kayden, Mayden, Fayden, Gaydon, Yaydon who's dad is in prison,Mum will never work a day in their life and the kids have been doomed to fail from the moment they left their dad's ballsack.

Scenario 2.

Kids with actual SEN, I know somebody who sent their kid private because they had ADHD and slight autism and they just couldn't deal with mainstream school and the environment. Yeah they didn't "need" private school and weren't eligible for a special school (and probably wasn't right for them) but Private offered much better facilities for their needs, smaller class sizes let them thrive etc. Better setups for SEND kids and a lot more ability to give them a better support plan and work with them.


Neither kid was going to die if they didn't have it, however they would have just spend 16 years of their life just coasting by rather than being pushed.

Scenario 1 isn’t real. There’s no evidence smart kids “get dragged down” whatsoever. Smart kids the data shows generally do well where ever cos they’re smart. It’s parental paranoia and thinking their kid is special that drives this.

Scenario 2 I have some sympathy for especially as I think SEN provision has deteriorated since the push to mainstream everyone. I’ll be honest I don’t think removing the kid is in their best interest, though autism and adhd is a wide spectrum so hard to say.

 

[shmmeee]

I have literally given examples.

Yes, you will have Jacob Rees Moggs. I'm not on about them.

The envy is terrible.

The plural of anecdote isn’t data. This is the winter fuel stuff all over. There may be the odd edge case but the vast majority can and should pay their way. For those that can’t there should be support but that’s a separate question of whether as a skint country we should give free cash to millionaires.

 

[Nick]

Scenario 1 isn’t real. There’s no evidence smart kids “get dragged down” whatsoever. Smart kids the data shows generally do well where ever cos they’re smart. It’s parental paranoia and thinking their kid is special that drives this.

Scenario 2 I have some sympathy for especially as I think SEN provision has deteriorated since the push to mainstream everyone. I’ll be honest I don’t think removing the kid is in their best interest, though autism and adhd is a wide spectrum so hard to say.

Scenario 1 is very real. Is it paranoia to want the best for your kid? I'm not saying 1 kid is better than another or more special, some kids just don't get on with education full stop.

Scenario 2, why? The kid is like a totally new kid. Of course, it depends on the state school and the private school, but I am only talking about people I know.

 

[Nick]

The plural of anecdote isn’t data. This is the winter fuel stuff all over. There may be the odd edge case but the vast majority can and should pay their way. For those that can’t there should be support but that’s a separate question of whether as a skint country we should give free cash to millionaires.

People will pay the VAT or just move their kids back. Simple as that. If they are already working their arses off and making sacrifices then they will find a way to do it if they can.

Again, I am talking people I know, local. The likes of those at Eton won't even notice the difference.

 

[shmmeee]

Scenario 1 is very real. Is it paranoia to want the best for your kid?

Scenario 2, why? The kid is like a totally new kid. Of course, it depends on the state school and the private school, but I am only talking about people I know.

Wanting the best is natural, but it doesn’t lead to rational decisions that are best for the kid or society as a whole. The mum that never lets their kid out to play because they’re scared is wanting the best for their kid, but they aren’t actually delivering it.

This is partly why things like home schooling are dangerous

This is approaching really thorny territory because the end result of my thinking is that parents don’t have rights over kids and obviously that’s too far. But every parent thinks they’re doing what’s best for their kids, but they aren’t always. What’s society to do? Kids have rights as much as parents.

Scenario 2 I think there would be state provision that would provide the same. If that’s not the case then I’d support benefits for that kid going to their education like any PIP payment.

Edit: just to point out every single school I’ve worked at has had a unit with tiny class sizes (like 5) for SEN kids or kids who can’t handle classes.

 

[shmmeee]

People will pay the VAT or just move their kids back. Simple as that. If they are already working their arses off and making sacrifices then they will find a way to do it if they can.

Again, I am talking people I know, local. The likes of those at Eton won't even notice the difference.

Im sure you are. And they’ll probably find their kids are just fine in a good state school and the money they’ve saved allows them to give their kid a better all round childhood. They just won’t be able to buy access to a friendship group which gives them influence in future. Though if enough people send their kid to state school they won’t have to.

 

[shmmeee]

I’d also say @Nick whatever the cost of private schooling it will be just too expensive for some. Your arguments lead to why not just pay for private schooling for everyone?

 

[PVA]

The right wing press have really done a number on folk to have people demanding millionaire farmers and those buying luxury goods deserve tax breaks.

 

[Ian1779]

Scenario 1 is very real. Is it paranoia to want the best for your kid? I'm not saying 1 kid is better than another or more special, some kids just don't get on with education full stop.

Scenario 2, why? The kid is like a totally new kid. Of course, it depends on the state school and the private school, but I am only talking about people I know.

All you are really staying here is that class sizes is by far the greatest driver of performance.

That mostly what you pay for. Yes there is an argument for ‘opportunities’ and connections, but the qualifications are all the same.

 

[shmmeee]

All you are really staying here is that class sizes is by far the greatest driver of performance.

That mostly what you pay for. Yes there is an argument for ‘opportunities’ and connections, but the qualifications are all the same.

You’re paying for small class sizes and connections and for good grades regardless of ability. I know multiple private school teachers that are pressured to fake coursework for kids. My first proper GF was privately educated, thick as a plank but got ridiculous grades she’s nowhere near capable of. IIRC there was a scandal about Prince William’s coursework being faked too.

Harry was helped in his exams: Prince Harry, a weak student who was helped to cheat in exam, says ex-teacher | UK news | The Guardian

I once worked with an English teacher who was privately educated and couldn’t understand why she was told off for giving kids answers during exams cos her teachers did.

The idea there’s some amazing education happening beyond resources is a nonsense. It’s the same teachers trained by the same places as state schools. Just with more pressure for results and less oversight.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Keir Starmer’s Government Is Stuck in a 'Right Wing Doom Loop' That Will Only Help Nigel Farage

The Prime Minister's acceptance of right-wing economic orthodoxy is pushing his party and the country towards disaster, argues his former adviser Simon Fletcher

bylinetimes.com

 

[Nick]

Wanting the best is natural, but it doesn’t lead to rational decisions that are best for the kid or society as a whole. The mum that never lets their kid out to play because they’re scared is wanting the best for their kid, but they aren’t actually delivering it.

This is partly why things like home schooling are dangerous

This is approaching really thorny territory because the end result of my thinking is that parents don’t have rights over kids and obviously that’s too far. But every parent thinks they’re doing what’s best for their kids, but they aren’t always. What’s society to do? Kids have rights as much as parents.

Scenario 2 I think there would be state provision that would provide the same. If that’s not the case then I’d support benefits for that kid going to their education like any PIP payment.

Edit: just to point out every single school I’ve worked at has had a unit with tiny class sizes (like 5) for SEN kids or kids who can’t handle classes.

Why are you talking like kids are being tortured and kidnapped to go to a private school?

Let's be realistic, society doesn't give 2 fucks about your kids or my kids and what's best for them. Somebody is still paying their taxes to pay for other people's educations still if they send their kids private.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Why are you talking like kids are being tortured and kidnapped to go to a private school?

Let's be realistic, society doesn't give 2 fucks about your kids or my kids and what's best for them. Somebody is still paying their taxes to pay for other people's educations still if they send their kids private.

Nobody's taxes pay for anybody else's education

 

[Nick]

Nobody's taxes pay for anybody else's education

That's wrong though, isn't it?

 

[Nick]

Im sure you are. And they’ll probably find their kids are just fine in a good state school and the money they’ve saved allows them to give their kid a better all round childhood. They just won’t be able to buy access to a friendship group which gives them influence in future. Though if enough people send their kid to state school they won’t have to.

How is somebody going to a private school receiving a worse childhood, exactly?

I mean I agree when it comes to things like boarding schools etc but we aren't on about that.

"buying access to a friendship group" Fucking hell. You are jealous and spiteful over kids as well as OAPS. Its hilarious.

 

[chiefdave]

Few years old but some actual data if anyone is interested

Fact Finder tool on private education | PEPF

www.pepf.co.uk

 

[shmmeee]

How is somebody going to a private school receiving a worse childhood, exactly?

I mean I agree when it comes to things like boarding schools etc but we aren't on about that.

"buying access to a friendship group" Fucking hell. You are jealous and spiteful over kids as well as OAPS. Its hilarious.

Why do you think Eton costs so much? Why do you think people spend it?

And if you are neglecting basics like food and holidays to pay for private education then yes the kid would be better off not going private and having those basics. As any study will show you they matter more for educational success and life success. There was a woman in the press on UC sending her kid private. Boasting that she never goes on holiday or buys clothes or turns the heating on. Fucking awful parental prioritisation.

I can afford to send my kids private and choose not to, I also had the choice to go private as a student and chose not to, I’m really not sure how this is “jealousy” but then you just parrot what you’re told so no doubt you don’t either.

 

[Nick]

Why do you think Eton costs so much? Why do you think people spend it?

And if you are neglecting basics like food and holidays to pay for private education then yes the kid would be better off not going private and having those basics. As any study will show you they matter more for educational success and life success. There was a woman in the press on UC sending her kid private. Boasting that she never goes on holiday or buys clothes or turns the heating on. Fucking awful parental prioritisation.

I can afford to send my kids private and choose not to, I’m really not sure how this is “jealousy” but then you just parrot what you’re told so no doubt you don’t either.

You think people who send their kids private aren't feeding them?

I'm not parroting anything that I'm told? You're the one coming out with wild nonsense.

 

[shmmeee]

You think people who send their kids private aren't feeding them?

I'm not parroting anything that I'm told? You're the one coming out with wild nonsense.

I actually don’t the one woman who I reference who explicitly said she cut back on food clothes and heating to afford it is doing it. I think she’s doing what you are and making shit up to justify her luxury good.

 

[PVA]

Two of my cousins went to Repton and my uncle said one of the reasons for doing it was for the connections they will make while they are there. Of course that's a thing.

 

[Nick]

I actually don’t the one woman who I reference who explicitly said she cut back on food clothes and heating to afford it is doing it. I think she’s doing what you are and making shit up to justify her luxury good.

So what's your point? You're making out that private school kids are being tortured and starved as if it's cruel.

 

[shmmeee]

Two of my cousins went to Repton and my uncle said one of the reasons for doing it was for the connections they will make while they are there. Of course that's a thing.

No PVA it’s all single mums on benefits whose kids are failed by the evil state.

 

[shmmeee]

So what's your point? You're making out that private school kids are being tortured and starved

If you have to make shit up you haven’t got an argument. I think we’re done here.

 

[Nick]

No PVA it’s all single mums on benefits whose kids are failed by the evil state.

Who's said that?

 

[CovValleyBoy]

Private school is a luxury good. You get schooling for free in this country. No one

I often wish I'd begged stole & borrowed to send my kids to private school.
The state option had deteriorated hugely from my time at school both primary & secondary.
The decline has only continued.
Get "them" to private, if you can afford it, would be my advice to parents.

 

[Nick]

If you have to make shit up you haven’t got an argument. I think we’re done here.

Who is making anything up? You're now going on about single mums on benefits.

 

[shmmeee]

Who is making anything up? You're now going on about single mums on benefits.

No actually you are. You’re claiming we can’t charge tax on private education because then all these poor people will be priced out. When I pointed out that if you’re poor you shouldn’t be spending your money on luxury goods you went off about torturing kids.

 

[shmmeee]

I often wish I'd begged stole & borrowed to send my kids to private school.
The state option had deteriorated hugely from my time at school both primary & secondary.
The decline has only continued.
Get "them" to private, if you can afford it, would be my advice to parents.

Nah. I actually worked in the state sector and know it well rather than getting my news off Facebook.

 

[CovValleyBoy]

Nah. I actually worked in the state sector and know it well rather than getting my news off Facebook.

Never ever been on Facebook.