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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Whatever happened to the Russia report? The Tories were never keen to let us know what was in that.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Well for a start I would propose sanctions more tough than the only one you’ve proposed, which is to give Putin the one thing he wants (after we’ve already given him a free chance to let him annex another bit of Europe, of course). Do you think your plan would deter Putin in the future?
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do you think we should ban all trade with China due to its slaughter in death camps of the Muslim community or is this just a bit of a selective view as it suits a particular narrative? Do you think we should hand their money back to Mr Putin ?
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
It's nowhere near the equivalent. But it's very easy to escalate things, descalation not quite as easy.
And if the apetites not their for military engagement its better not to be seen as having backed down after you've given it a load of bluster.
It's worrying that this whole situation hangs on the actions of someone like Putin though.
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With Putin it seems like for him the only means to deescalation is complete capitulation. Anything else, even so much as wagging a finger at him, he will use as the West escalating things while he drives his tanks and soldiers into another country on the excuse it's just him protecting himself against Ukrainian aggression.

Be like fans climbing all over the netting at the stadium to twat someone then using the excuse the other person was the aggressor.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Well for a start I would propose sanctions more tough than the only one you’ve proposed, which is to give Putin the one thing he wants (after we’ve already given him a free chance to let him annex another bit of Europe, of course). Do you think your plan would deter Putin in the future?
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Grendull. The Neville Chamberlain of sky blues talk.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Do you think this would lead to Mr Putin wave the white flag of surrender?

I’m slightly confused as well as when Ms May stokd up to the Russians over Salisbury many on here said she was condemning before evidence - why would she bite the hand that apparently feeds the Tory party?
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Of course he's not going to wave the white flag, but it wouldn't further encourage him. Doing the pathetic sanctions we have will have him getting his TimeOut book of Ukraine out looking for nice places to visit and wondering where he should visit next.

It's incredible you keep asking what others would do when you own response is 'just let them do it'. That's pathetically weak, even from you.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
do you think we should ban all trade with China due to its slaughter in death camps of the Muslim community or is this just a bit of a selective view as it suits a particular narrative? Do you think we should hand their money back to Mr Putin ?
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Do you need a lie down? We’re talking about Russia, old chap, I think you’ve got your reds confused.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Coybyn would be impotent because of personal ideology. So far Boris has talked the talk but the only walking he’s done is to catch up the US 6 years late to the party. All while he’s been giving them peerages, playing tennis with them, holidaying in their villas and accepting donations. Misplaced ideology vs misplaced morals for the Russian Ruble. It’s like picking your favourite shit.
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Ive read and heard Ukraine have really appreciated our support to date. I’ve not heard their comments on our initial sanctions though, maybe it’s a bit of disappointment but as I say, I’d imagine there are more to come. We all know Corbyn would’ve done fuck all and probably even found a way to blame the US, so one turd is definitely better than the other in this instance.
 

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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Of course he's not going to wave the white flag, but it wouldn't further encourage him. Doing the pathetic sanctions we have will have him getting his TimeOut book of Ukraine out looking for nice places to visit and wondering where he should visit next.

It's incredible you keep asking what others would do when you own response is 'just let them do it'. That's pathetically weak, even from you.
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putin will do what he wants with Ukraine

there will be a lot of outrage and a lot of faux indignation but this has been a powder keg for years

sanctions are a fop. The EU alone has imports from Russia over £100 billion i
Believe - Germany is a huge trading partner - so stop all imports - that’s going to finish off Putin. Will this happen? No and I wonder why

The Salisbury poisoning was a step Tom far as it was on uk soil. Yet oddly some of the people expressing outrage on here regarding Tory inaction are the same people then saying that Ms May went too far And the Russians were innocent until proven guilty. how odd is that? Well it isn’t as it’s just hypocritical politicking

This is a hostile action- we should not applaud or condone it. Countries will make some pointless sanctions which will have no impact on Putin at all - but in the end there is nothing meaningful the west can do

Putin is striking out against a fear of western alliance movement into Ukraine as it and Belarus are really the main standpoints against the West.

if he really enters Ukraine it will be a bloody war and not a forgone conclusion. it will drain his resources and the collective west will back a Ukraine resistance. He won’t go that far as the catastrophic impact on their economy when they did the same in Afghanistan was something they never recovered from

it’s a weak country that wants to look strong against a far bigger and stronger western alliance - for us as things stand we have little to worry about
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Ive read and heard Ukraine have really appreciated our support to date. I’ve not heard their comments on our initial sanctions though, maybe it’s a bit of disappointment but as I say, I’d imagine there are more to come. We all know Corbyn would’ve done fuck all and probably even found a way to blame the US, so one turd is definitely better than the other in this instance.
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the real problem with Corbyn was he wanted out of NATO and saw NATO as an oppressive enemy against Russia so yes he as PM would have had catastrophic impact for the uk with its strategic partners
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Putins biggest concern won’t be faux sanctions but the rather underwhelming reaction in the stock markets to his little wander into Ukraine - he will be very disappointed
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Out of interest what do you think should happen?
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I have obviously a very specific opinion on Russia but frankly when juveniles like SBT - who probably has seen a copy of War and Peace in a library and PVA (whose only opinion is formed by twitter and I doubt could even identify Russia in a map ) there is zero point in the discussion
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I have obviously a very specific opinion on Russia but frankly when juveniles like SBT - who probably has seen a copy of War and Peace in a library and PVA (whose only opinion is formed by twitter and I doubt could even identify Russia in a map ) there is zero point in the discussion
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Is your answer really just ‘let it take its course’ though?
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
putin will do what he wants with Ukraine

there will be a lot of outrage and a lot of faux indignation but this has been a powder keg for years

sanctions are a fop. The EU alone has imports from Russia over £100 billion i
Believe - Germany is a huge trading partner - so stop all imports - that’s going to finish off Putin. Will this happen? No and I wonder why

The Salisbury poisoning was a step Tom far as it was on uk soil. Yet oddly some of the people expressing outrage on here regarding Tory inaction are the same people then saying that Ms May went too far And the Russians were innocent until proven guilty. how odd is that? Well it isn’t as it’s just hypocritical politicking

This is a hostile action- we should not applaud or condone it. Countries will make some pointless sanctions which will have no impact on Putin at all - but in the end there is nothing meaningful the west can do

Putin is striking out against a fear of western alliance movement into Ukraine as it and Belarus are really the main standpoints against the West.

if he really enters Ukraine it will be a bloody war and not a forgone conclusion. it will drain his resources and the collective west will back a Ukraine resistance. He won’t go that far as the catastrophic impact on their economy when they did the same in Afghanistan was something they never recovered from

it’s a weak country that wants to look strong against a far bigger and stronger western alliance - for us as things stand we have little to worry about
Click to expand...
So the thing on UK soil a step too far. On Ukrainian soil - that's OK. Not near me so why should I give a fuck?

Fact you just nonchalantly say Putin will do what he wants with Ukraine as if that's fine.

You don't get where this could lead do you.

Hitler took Austria (Crimea) and no-one stopped him. So he took the Sudetenland (Donetsk/Luhansk) and no-one stopped him. It was only when he invaded Poland (Ukraine) we got involved. But he took that and France and tried to take Britain and then Russia before we saw him off (with a lot of help). And if he'd succeeded he'd have just wanted more.

People like Putin don't stop unless you make them and so far we've done a Neville Chamberlain. Yes, I think he would lose eventually but millions of people would be at risk before that and that's not acceptable. Difference is, Putin has something Hitler didn't. Nukes. And as much as people are saying he wouldn't use them, people with the mentality of Putin would happily press that button if he knew he was defeated. They see themselves as the world and it has no value without them in it.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So the thing on UK soil a step too far. On Ukrainian soil - that's OK. Not near me so why should I give a fuck?

Fact you just nonchalantly say Putin will do what he wants with Ukraine as if that's fine.

You don't get where this could lead do you.

Hitler took Austria (Crimea) and no-one stopped him. So he took the Sudetenland (Donetsk/Luhansk) and no-one stopped him. It was only when he invaded Poland (Ukraine) we got involved. But he took that and France and tried to take Britain and then Russia before we saw him off (with a lot of help). And if he'd succeeded he'd have just wanted more.

People like Putin don't stop unless you make them and so far we've done a Neville Chamberlain. Yes, I think he would lose eventually but millions of people would be at risk before that and that's not acceptable. Difference is, Putin has something Hitler didn't. Nukes. And as much as people are saying he wouldn't use them, people with the mentality of Putin would happily press that button if he knew he was defeated. They see themselves as the world and it has no value without them in it.
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so you want war?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So the thing on UK soil a step too far. On Ukrainian soil - that's OK. Not near me so why should I give a fuck?

Fact you just nonchalantly say Putin will do what he wants with Ukraine as if that's fine.

You don't get where this could lead do you.

Hitler took Austria (Crimea) and no-one stopped him. So he took the Sudetenland (Donetsk/Luhansk) and no-one stopped him. It was only when he invaded Poland (Ukraine) we got involved. But he took that and France and tried to take Britain and then Russia before we saw him off (with a lot of help). And if he'd succeeded he'd have just wanted more.

People like Putin don't stop unless you make them and so far we've done a Neville Chamberlain. Yes, I think he would lose eventually but millions of people would be at risk before that and that's not acceptable. Difference is, Putin has something Hitler didn't. Nukes. And as much as people are saying he wouldn't use them, people with the mentality of Putin would happily press that button if he knew he was defeated. They see themselves as the world and it has no value without them in it.
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I suspect the Anschluss wasn’t entirely against the will of Austria
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Only Grendel could say these sanctions are too strong.
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If we all said they were too strong, you know full well he would he arguing they are not strong enough. He is the forums Boris/Adrian Durham.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
so you want war?
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Of course I don't. If we can make him stop using non-military means then we should. As things stand I don't think it would, or at least not for long. We need much, much harsher sanctions and even then I think he would eventually try to go further.

I doubt Churchill wanted war but he saw Hitler was not someone who could be appeased.

“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour and you will have war.”
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
im talking about the global western markets dear boy
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Does Putin care about those? Oil hit $100 a barrel today, so he’s probably feeling quite content this evening. Especially knowing that codgers like you are hoping he gets everything else he wants on a plate from the west as well.
 
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