Do you want to discuss boring politics? (25 Viewers)

[Philosoraptor]

I hope everyone is ashamed of themselves.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I hope everyone is ashamed of themselves.

Well two came round here to try and make us feel ashamed.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

I hope everyone is ashamed of themselves.

Labour should be ashamed of themselves for being useless

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Labour should be ashamed of themselves for being useless

I heard they were getting dead people to vote for them in Wales

 

[Skybluefaz]

Labour should be ashamed of themselves for being useless

 

[PVA]

Labour should be ashamed of themselves for being useless

But how can they compete in these fraudulent elections?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

But how can they compete in these fraudulent elections?

Only way labour would win would be with fraud....no wonder you shit yourself at the idea of voter ID

 

[Ian1779]

Only way labour would win would be with fraud....no wonder you shit yourself at the idea of voter ID

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

View attachment 20035

What Kiers office currently looks like

 

[Evo1883]

Not backing Brexit is ultimately what cost them - a lot of their policies are generally popular.

It's a part of a variety of problems .

Labour last won an election 16 years ago , brexit referendum was 5 years ago

 

[PVA]

Only way labour would win would be with fraud....no wonder you shit yourself at the idea of voter ID

Then why don't they? If it's so easy like you say, they can win every election via fraud.

Or is that what the tories are doing, they're just better at fraud than Labour?

 

[skybluetony176]

OK, well a couple of points

1. Voter fraud occurs at such a low rate it's virtually non-existent. Why invest money and resources into a problem that doesn't exist?
2. Usually the ID required is harder to obtain for certain demographics. Why make it more difficult to take part in elections instead of easier?

The answer probably lies in that Boris has seen the Republicans use it to suppress the Democratic vote in certain American states.

Certain demographics also. It’s long been a suppressor of the black vote because black people don’t trust the authorities. We’re seeing that in the U.K. with vaccine take up. The Tories want this to suppress the vote of people who wouldn’t normally vote Tory, black people making up a big section of that.

 

[wingy]

Like they need it FFS.
It's cool enough to keep changing the boundaries increasing the intake etc.
Bring it on we're monitored 24/7 , vaccine passports for everyone everywhere while we're at it.
Can't wait till I we're all chipped tbf.

 

[skybluetony176]

The only chance labour have of winning the elections is through fraud lol no wonder you don’t want voter ID

So you don’t think bringing in measures to suppress the vote in demographics least likely to vote for you is fraud? It’s a slippery slope.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Looool being too left wing cost them with Corbyn, some people will never learn

Moving to the right under Starmer has resulted in even more losses.

So go left, lose. Move to the centre, lose. Labour could literally put anyone forward and there are people that would say they couldn't vote for them because of that particular person. Given some of the complete nonsense that people are falling for (Labour have cut services despite the budget being set by the Tories, having more foodbanks being a good thing, Labour treat us like we're stupid but i voted for a party who have openly called us stupid). If people are falling for this spin then there is absolutely no hope for the country until the Tories are so far in control they is literally no-one else to blame. Even then I'm sure some would say it's Labour's fault for not stopping it despite not having the numbers to do so).

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There's no need.
There have been numerous election and referendums recently with no suggestion of an issue.
There would have been an unusually high number of postal and proxy votes Thursday because of covid and there was no issue. Its pointless.

The money it would cost could be put to far better use.

No it couldn't. Those Tory donors and mates need their public funding fix.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Khalid Mahmood summed up labour's problem...."a London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors"

Depressing....and it will continue with Keith the nowhere man "in charge".

Govt are thieving morally bankrupt cunts. Opposition are spinless useless cunts. Just glad I'm drunk

 

[David O'Day]

So Rayner to Shadow Cab office (opposite Gove)

Reeves to Shadow Chancellor

What were folk saying about KS getting rid of working class women?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It is a good idea, if you think otherwise then you ain’t got a clue

OK. The cost of introducing Voter ID cards would be tens of billions if not more. All to stop at best a couple of fraudulent votes. Good spend of public money.

If voter fraud was a big issue, I'd agree. it's not, so it's a waste of money and clearly nothing but a tactic to supress voting in those people that are far less likely to vote for them. That is not democracy.

Unless we bring in a law saying the metric used for ID is dental records and then it'd be unfortunate for all those elderly people that have lost theres and so couldn't vote. Fair?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Hardly stopping them, go get an ID card

Cost. Tories wouldn't do it for free. Poor have enough (not) on their plate right now to be spaffing money on a card to vote, so probably just wouldn't bother voting. Also less likely to drive or need a passport and so have those. Minorities also are massively affected more than others when it comes to obtaining one due to numerous barriers.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Certainly done very well with the vaccines, that’s why he’s took so many seats in the local elections

1 thing right, dozens wrong (including stuff that for a Labour leader would see them hounded out of politics). Not just shit policy but obvious corruption, lying and probably breaking the law (again).

The reason we had these elections this year and not last is because of the massive fuck-ups he made in pandemic planning. But let's fucking forget the shitstorm of stuff we got wrong eh. We got one thing right!

 

[Ian1779]

So Rayner to Shadow Cab office (opposite Gove)

Reeves to Shadow Chancellor

What were folk saying about KS getting rid of working class women?

Rayner’s is a pretend job... that’s why Boris gave the real equivalent to Gove.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So Rayner to Shadow Cab office (opposite Gove)

Reeves to Shadow Chancellor

What were folk saying about KS getting rid of working class women?

Does the average voter give a toss about who's in the shadow cabinet?

 

[Grendel]

Rayner’s is a pretend job... that’s why Boris gave the real equivalent to Gove.

That job title is hilarious.

 

[David O'Day]

Rayner’s is a pretend job... that’s why Boris gave the real equivalent to Gove.

It's a pretend job that has existed with a well defined role for 24 years?

It's a more senior, more public front office role.

 

[Ian1779]

That job title is hilarious.

Something something, and a bit nicked from
Waitrose.

 

[Ian1779]

It's a pretend job that has existed with a well defined role for 24 years?

It's a more senior, more public front office role.

Go on then - name the real or shadow who held that role prior to Gove and Rayner... no Googling.

 

[David O'Day]

Something something, and a bit nicked from
Waitrose.

To be fair at least she has a job title unlike Grenners

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Go on then - name the real or shadow who held that role prior to Gove and Rayner... no Googling.

Good luck there he googles more often than G does at Kenny

 

[David O'Day]

Go on then - name the real or shadow who held that role prior to Gove and Rayner... no Googling.

Green when he was first sec of state? E Miliband? Jowell? Francis Maude? Mo Mowlem??

 

[shmmeee]

The only chance labour have of winning the elections is through fraud lol no wonder you don’t want voter ID

Mate. The Tories are literally changing the more democratic mayoral election system to FPTP because it’s the only way they can win. The entire system is rigged for one party in this country and you’ve got the cheek to parrot some Trump level crap you heard the yanks online say.

You really should stay out of politics threads, you embarrass yourself.

 

[clint van damme]

Khalid Mahmood, in today's Telegraph

As a Labour MP, the fact that one of my colleagues – the MP for Hartlepool – is being replaced by a Conservative for the first time in 62 years is troubling enough. There is a national narrative that runs strongly against my party now. We are seen as out of touch, a party captured by urban liberals, whose most vocal supporters are university graduates with woke politics straight from the world of left-wing campus protests. The other 50 per cent of society – aspirational and looking for better opportunities – does not think we have the answers.

What worries me the most is the gains the Tories are making on a local level with mayors and councils. MPs and members of my party should have sleepless nights after 73 per cent of the Tees Valley vote went to the Conservative Mayor, Ben Houchen. As Boris Johnson is reported to have told him, this is almost showing off. Likewise, to see Andy Street, the Mayor of the West Midlands, moving from a lead of 4,000 second preference votes in 2017 to 47,043 this time is a real concern. In Birmingham, where I am an MP, there was a setback for the City Council’s leadership as the Tories took two council seats.

Although our politics at times looks presidential, with more focus on the party leaders in the media than ever before, it remains my view – as a former councillor myself, and as I approach my 20th anniversary of becoming an MP – that these races are ultimately won on the ground, street by street. It is how MPs, councillors and activists respond to voters’ local concerns that changes things.

People, especially younger voters, care more about environment than ever before. But instead of supporting and helping them make the greener choices they would like to, in too many areas we’ve been penalising them. Instead of greener and cleaner buses with cheaper fares, we are hitting motorists with congestion zone charging – and when they complain, ticking them off for not owning electric cars. Instead of spending more on public transport, we are mucking about with road development so that journeys take longer and traffic moves slower. It may sound mundane but people notice these things – especially when idling cars worsen pollution.

Councils are also making woeful choices on procurement. Instead of hiring local IT companies, for example, supporting local jobs for local people, they hire enormous Plcs – and then wonder why talented young people don’t stick around when it comes to finding a job.

Speaking of which, has my party done enough to defend the interests of those 50% of young people who don’t go to university? My worry is that we have become too associated with the Labour promise to get half of people studying for degrees. Further Education, though attempts have been made to boost it over the past two decades, stubbornly remains “forgotten education” for most – something, like apprenticeships, that is for other people’s children rather than a key focus for us. We have to give people who don’t succeed academically at school the chance to do well later on and the skills to ensure a lifetime of work.

Without the right training and skills, we aren’t going to be equipped as a country for some of the economic opportunities of the future – especially in advanced manufacturing. I say this as someone who learnt my trade at a polytechnic then on the job as an engineer.

As David Goodhart, one of my colleagues at Policy Exchange, the think tank, has written, there is too much focus on jobs involving the head, and not enough on those that use the hand and the heart – in manual labour and care work, for example. Labour should be the natural party for such people, ensuring that they have what my fellow Labour MP Jon Cruddas calls the “dignity of labour”, throughout their careers.

I fear that too much of my party’s energy has gone into identity politics and niche culture wars. Some of our most vocal activists have been more interested in tearing down Churchill’s statue than helping people of modest means pull themselves up.

Sadly, we’ve also allowed people to stoke social division where there shouldn’t be any. My own personal experiences are that this isn’t a racist country. I don’t believe it ever was. My white colleagues on the Birmingham factory floor welcomed me like one of their own when I began my career as an engineer. There needs to be better learning and education especially in the inner city areas to provide greater opportunities for people. You’d think, reading some social commentary in recent years – or listening to the self-appointed gatekeepers of the Muslim community – that things were getting worse, not better.

British voters clearly don’t agree. They want optimism, patriotism and for government to work for them.
They want to see smart investment that makes a difference to their own lives and local places, of which they remain deeply proud. If they think we aren’t listening to their concerns, Labour is going to keep on losing.

Talks a lot of sense.
Given how he mentions local issues I wonder if Starmer has plans to replace the Community organising unit?

Seems a poor decision to get rid of it otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Khalid's mention of how he was received at work suddenly took me back 30 years to when I last worked on the factory floor. It was a very mixed economy of whites (English, Scots and Irish), Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. Truly, I can't think of one instance, whether in private conversation or as a group when I observed racism. I'm not saying that racism didn't exist in society back then, but in the workplace there was the unifying force of workers together, partly to stand our ground and because the sheer monotony of work cultivated the need for us to come together to embrace our situation. I left shortly before that workplace, like so many, was pretty much stripped of union rights except in name only.

I know this is a very simplistic and unoriginal view, it it seems to me that the loss of manufacturing and associated services to globalization, the destruction of union rights and decent jobs has created a vacuum in which we have been splintered, and that vacuum replaced by the disjointed concerns of minorities.

We know that we will never see a return to a mass labour movement, but it's hard to see what the theme would be around which Labour votes could be coalesced. Tbh, whilst for me Khalid has correctly identified some of the issues, not least the metropolitan elite and its tactic of cultural hegemony, I didn't find anything in his note that showed me the way forward,

 

[shmmeee]

Khalid's mention of how he was received at work suddenly took me back 30 years to when I last worked on the factory floor. It was a very mixed economy of whites (English, Scots and Irish), Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. Truly, I can't think of one instance, whether in private conversation or as a group when I observed racism. I'm not saying that racism didn't exist in society back then, but in the workplace there was the unifying force of workers together, partly to stand our ground and because the sheer monotony of work cultivated the need for us to come together to embrace our situation. I left shortly before that workplace, like so many, was pretty much stripped of union rights except in name only.

I know this is a very simplistic and unoriginal view, it it seems to me that the loss of manufacturing and associated services to globalization, the destruction of union rights and decent jobs has created a vacuum in which we have been splintered, and that vacuum replaced by the disjointed concerns of minorities.

We know that we will never see a return to a mass labour movement, but it's hard to see what the theme would be around which Labour votes could be coalesced. Tbh, whilst for me Khalid has correctly identified some of the issues, not least the metropolitan elite and its tactic of cultural hegemony, I didn't find anything in his note that showed me the way forward,

Spot on.

It’s the “what are Labour for?” Question that’s hard to answer. The fault lines these days are cultural not economic so the easy answer is: liberalism and wokeness, but you won’t win an election like that.

It should still be economics IMO: demanding higher wages, affordable living, etc. But these days you’ve got the likes of Nick as standard who thinks everyone should work for minimum wage and be happy they’ve got a job.

Everyone’s been indoctrinated into this cult of the individual, even “left wing” politics is all about the individual and not the class these days with ID politics.

Worrying times for a species that’s at its best working together and currently faced by an extinction level event only stoppable by working together.

 

[Evo1883]

Khalid's mention of how he was received at work suddenly took me back 30 years to when I last worked on the factory floor. It was a very mixed economy of whites (English, Scots and Irish), Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. Truly, I can't think of one instance, whether in private conversation or as a group when I observed racism. I'm not saying that racism didn't exist in society back then, but in the workplace there was the unifying force of workers together, partly to stand our ground and because the sheer monotony of work cultivated the need for us to come together to embrace our situation. I left shortly before that workplace, like so many, was pretty much stripped of union rights except in name only.

I know this is a very simplistic and unoriginal view, it it seems to me that the loss of manufacturing and associated services to globalization, the destruction of union rights and decent jobs has created a vacuum in which we have been splintered, and that vacuum replaced by the disjointed concerns of minorities.

We know that we will never see a return to a mass labour movement, but it's hard to see what the theme would be around which Labour votes could be coalesced. Tbh, whilst for me Khalid has correctly identified some of the issues, not least the metropolitan elite and its tactic of cultural hegemony, I didn't find anything in his note that showed me the way forward,

I worked at jaguar Land rover for 2 years .
The lads before me on the track were white and Indian, the lads behind me on the track were white and black .
All down the track people of every background quite literally getting on , having a laugh working together .

I now work at a place where it's a similar story (I won't name it as I don't know whose on here )

I just don't see this fractured society we are told about .
But we are told about it constantly by everybody else .
That's why it confuses so many people and annoys them .

I live on a street with people of different races and backgrounds ..
We borrow things off eachother , the Indian guy behind me jet washed my patio for nothing , the Somalian family by us , we took their daughter last week to Kenilworth Park , when it's hot we all chat in the gardens .

Many people just don't see it and that's why it's so confusing and hard for us to understand