Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which shows policies in isolation are not major priorities. Also as I constantly say it’s the wording of these polling groups that matter
Any polling done on policies shows the public to be centre left, sometimes further.
Which shows policies in isolation are not major priorities. Also as I constantly say it’s the wording of these polling groups that matter
So you are saying that the circuit breaker wasn't a good idea then?I haven’t mentioned Boris we are talking about Labour mate
Which shows policies in isolation are not major priorities. Also as I constantly say it’s the wording of these polling groups that matter
No, the exact problem is the opposite.But... isn't that the supposed exact problem? Labour are too focused on the middle classes and not the working man?
No, the exact problem is the opposite.
They are focusing far far too much on the working man.
The old idea of the working man living in a council house, wearing a flat cap, smoking woodbines and walking his whippet is the very reason they are failing.
Those people have become an "under class"
The working man, now owns his own house and is paying 1.5% mortgage interest rate, which under the tories is historically low, and they ain't going to risk that by letting labour fuck it up with irresponsible spending.
The current working man, is now paying into a pension fund, and might even buy some shares, and has now become politically aware.
The underclass have become left behind, but the point is this, they either dont vote, dont trust labour, or there arnt enough of them to swing elections.
While mortgage rates are low, no one wants to rock the boat, and they are happy to put up with Boris in no10, for all his faults, If mortgage rates rise and people are losing their homes then Boris and the Torys are out.
Its brutal, put it's the truth.
If the working man has is own home, has an active pension fund, can run a car, have a holiday etc he ain't voting for a labour party he sees as being a socialist far left party.
Labour needs to modernise and appeal to this new "middle England " class, because they are the ones who are now voting en mass.
No one gives a fuck who SETS the interest rate, the fact is they are historically low, and currently that's a slam dunk for Boris.The Bank of England set the interest rates.
And UK taxes are the highest for years (all taxes combined not solely income tax).
Couple with that wage suppression which is going to continue for at least anther two years even though there is expected to be big rises in gdp after bunch back from covid. Im not sure they're really helping the new working class you've described.
No one gives a fuck who SETS the interest rate, the fact is they are historically low, and currently that's a slam dunk for Boris.
What happens with wages post brexit remains to be seen, that's for Boris to handle.
If he does it well he will go from strength to strength, if he doesnt he will see his majority decline, but let's be honest, it's going to have to be the mother of all fuck ups to loose an 80+ seat majority over the next 10 years.
Not sure what your going on about mate tbh.So you are saying that the circuit breaker wasn't a good idea then?
You said Starmer doesn't put forward any decent ideas. Off the top of my head I thought of the circuit breaker lockdown he suggested and was subsequently derided by the PM for. Let the bodies pile high in their thousands said good old Boris, and they did. There is a word with more than 2 syllables in there. Apologies if you struggle to understand.Not sure what your going on about mate tbh.
Say it in English.
No, the exact problem is the opposite.
They are focusing far far too much on the working man.
The old idea of the working man living in a council house, wearing a flat cap, smoking woodbines and walking his whippet is the very reason they are failing.
Those people have become an "under class"
The working man, now owns his own house and is paying 1.5% mortgage interest rate, which under the tories is historically low, and they ain't going to risk that by letting labour fuck it up with irresponsible spending.
(you can argue this all you like, but that IS the petception)
The current working man, is now paying into a pension fund, and might even buy some shares, and has now become politically aware.
The underclass have become left behind, but the point is this, they either dont vote, dont trust labour, or there arnt enough of them to swing elections.
While mortgage rates are low, no one wants to rock the boat, and they are happy to put up with Boris in no10, for all his faults, If mortgage rates rise and people are losing their homes then Boris and the Torys are out.
Its brutal, put it's the truth.
If the working man has is own home, has an active pension fund, can run a car, have a holiday etc he ain't voting for a labour party he sees as being a socialist far left party.
Labour needs to modernise and appeal to this new "middle England " class, because they are the ones who are now voting en mass.
Yes I do thanks for clearing that upYou said Starmer doesn't put forward any decent ideas. Off the top of my head I thought of the circuit breaker lockdown he suggested and was subsequently derided by the PM for. Let the bodies pile high in their thousands said good old Boris, and they did. There is a word with more than 2 syllables in there. Apologies if you struggle to understand.
Keir Starmer urges PM to impose 'circuit breaker' lockdown on England
Labour leader says Boris Johnson must ‘follow the science’ as Covid death toll rises sharplywww.theguardian.com
Johnson maybe, not sure you can say that about Cameron! Our budget was cut massively during Cameron's time in power... Where Cameron was 'lucky' was being able to have the Lib Dems as his fall guys - that happened to work beautifully for him!The Cameron and Johnson governments have been the Tory's response to the success of the Blair / Brown governments in seizing the managed capitalism ground and the support of public goods.
So what do we reckon for the Batley & Spen by election? Another dropped in candidate with no connection to the area or the people, or will they think about what happened in Hartlepool? 60% Leave constituency and the Labour MP has a 3,500 majority.
You sure you’re not a fellow follower of the man jesus?Spot on.
It’s the “what are Labour for?” Question that’s hard to answer. The fault lines these days are cultural not economic so the easy answer is: liberalism and wokeness, but you won’t win an election like that.
It should still be economics IMO: demanding higher wages, affordable living, etc. But these days you’ve got the likes of Nick as standard who thinks everyone should work for minimum wage and be happy they’ve got a job.
Everyone’s been indoctrinated into this cult of the individual, even “left wing” politics is all about the individual and not the class these days with ID politics.
Worrying times for a species that’s at its best working together and currently faced by an extinction level event only stoppable by working together.
No, the exact problem is the opposite.
They are focusing far far too much on the working man.
The old idea of the working man living in a council house, wearing a flat cap, smoking woodbines and walking his whippet is the very reason they are failing.
Those people have become an "under class"
The working man, now owns his own house and is paying 1.5% mortgage interest rate, which under the tories is historically low, and they ain't going to risk that by letting labour fuck it up with irresponsible spending.
(you can argue this all you like, but that IS the petception)
The current working man, is now paying into a pension fund, and might even buy some shares, and has now become politically aware.
The underclass have become left behind, but the point is this, they either dont vote, dont trust labour, or there arnt enough of them to swing elections.
While mortgage rates are low, no one wants to rock the boat, and they are happy to put up with Boris in no10, for all his faults, If mortgage rates rise and people are losing their homes then Boris and the Torys are out.
Its brutal, put it's the truth.
If the working man has is own home, has an active pension fund, can run a car, have a holiday etc he ain't voting for a labour party he sees as being a socialist far left party.
Labour needs to modernise and appeal to this new "middle England " class, because they are the ones who are now voting en mass.
A Tory can say anything and be believed without question whereas anyone else has to justify it within an inch of their lifeHancock just on radio 4. The johnson government delivers. Delivered Brexit, supported the nhs and delivered on the vaccines. In answer to why after 11 years there is still no solution to social care. And no one is listening and no one cares until they need help from social care. Nandy spoke well and is the future of the politics I want to be a part of. I despair at the current level of accountability expected from our current government
Nope just commenting on the health minister say since 2019 the government has delivered. Well that’s debatable but on adult social care there is nothing concrete in the queens speech and he can say we’ll deliver and that’s coolt
You might equally ask why, after 13 years Labour provided no answer to adult care.
We all know the answer. It's unaffordable.
Hancock just on radio 4. The johnson government delivers. Delivered Brexit, supported the nhs and delivered on the vaccines. In answer to why after 11 years there is still no solution to social care. And no one is listening and no one cares until they need help from social care. Nandy spoke well and is the future of the politics I want to be a part of. I despair at the current level of accountability expected from our current government
You might equally ask why, after 13 years Labour provided no answer to adult care.
We all know the answer. It's unaffordable.
t
You might equally ask why, after 13 years Labour provided no answer to adult care.
We all know the answer. It's unaffordable.
“My job is to protect you or your parents or grandparents from the fear of having to sell your home to pay for the costs of care,” he said.
“And so I am announcing now – on the steps of Downing Street – that we will fix the crisis in social care once and for all, and with a clear plan we have prepared to give every older person the dignity and security they deserve.”
Im voting shmmee at the next general electionYou’re being very binary here, there are many countries which do better with social care than we do whether through mandatory insurance or public systems. The question isn’t “is the perfect system possible it’s “can we do better” and we can. Also whatever we make our priority is affordable.
Even Sweden only spends 3.6% on social care and that’s an outlier. We already get some of the best value for health spending and likely would for social care too.
Secondly, Labour didn’t stand on the steps of Downing Street after they were elected and say this:
They also didn’t do this:
They did this:
Fair enough, you carry on doing what the Sun tells you to do like a good boy.Yes I do thanks for clearing that up
You’re being very binary here, there are many countries which do better with social care than we do whether through mandatory insurance or public systems. The question isn’t “is the perfect system possible it’s “can we do better” and we can. Also whatever we make our priority is affordable.
Even Sweden only spends 3.6% on social care and that’s an outlier. We already get some of the best value for health spending and likely would for social care too.
Secondly, Labour didn’t stand on the steps of Downing Street after they were elected and say this:
They also didn’t do this:
They did this:
Pretty much.The Cameron and Johnson governments have been the Tory's response to the success of the Blair / Brown governments in seizing the managed capitalism ground and the support of public goods.
As Tory moderates, these governments have continued with the Blair/Brown agenda of support for centrally controlled public services (but much less so, local services). And as compared to the Tory governments of the nineties, they run the economy competently (stupid). Compared to Thatcher and her acolytes, they are indeed New Labour.
So if Labour wants to get power back, it will have to find it's Blarite Labour once more.
Iraq did him a lot of damage, it means other elements are lost. I suspect without Iraq there'd have been no Brexit, either, mind...Pretty much.
I think part of the problem is that it would appear that Blair is absolutely hated by the labour left, so there's little chance of a return to his brand of politics.
And there lies the rubPretty much.
I think part of the problem is that it would appear that Blair is absolutely hated by the labour left, so there's little chance of a return to his brand of politics.
This thread is hardly representative of society is it
Best selling paper in Britain cheersFair enough, you carry on doing what the Sun tells you to do like a good boy.
Three of the six were candidates giving false information so not something voter ID would prevent. One was for someone trying to take the ballot box, again voter ID would do nothing.So apparently in the last election there were 6 (SIX) cases of voter fraud.
No, the exact problem is the opposite.
They are focusing far far too much on the working man.
The old idea of the working man living in a council house, wearing a flat cap, smoking woodbines and walking his whippet is the very reason they are failing.
Those people have become an "under class"
The working man, now owns his own house and is paying 1.5% mortgage interest rate, which under the tories is historically low, and they ain't going to risk that by letting labour fuck it up with irresponsible spending.
(you can argue this all you like, but that IS the petception)
The current working man, is now paying into a pension fund, and might even buy some shares, and has now become politically aware.
The underclass have become left behind, but the point is this, they either dont vote, dont trust labour, or there arnt enough of them to swing elections.
While mortgage rates are low, no one wants to rock the boat, and they are happy to put up with Boris in no10, for all his faults, If mortgage rates rise and people are losing their homes then Boris and the Torys are out.
Its brutal, put it's the truth.
If the working man has is own home, has an active pension fund, can run a car, have a holiday etc he ain't voting for a labour party he sees as being a socialist far left party.
Labour needs to modernise and appeal to this new "middle England " class, because they are the ones who are now voting en mass.
No one gives a fuck who SETS the interest rate, the fact is they are historically low, and currently that's a slam dunk for Boris.
What happens with wages post brexit remains to be seen, that's for Boris to handle.
If he does it well he will go from strength to strength, if he doesnt he will see his majority decline, but let's be honest, it's going to have to be the mother of all fuck ups to loose an 80+ seat majority over the next 10 years.
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