Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

His radical values are he once had mushy peas with some fish and chips instead of petis pois

I thought it was when he upgraded to tikka massala from korma-the restaurant ran out of milk that day

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Sounds like the set fell apart?

Tories had a vip queue for studio fit out contracts as well

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[Otis]

Why bother taking it down, he'll probably do another 180 at some point.

The night is still young.

 

[fernandopartridge]

You OK mate?

I want nationalisation, in fact I want extra nationalisation to create care and software for the public good. I can just also see why you might not focus on it when a large part of your pitch is “I’m not Jeremy Corbyn”.

I’ve been saying since Corbyn jumped the shark the worst thing about him was toxifying decent left wing policies and how well have to over correct to gain voter trust back.

It's nothing to do with Corbyn, they are generally well supported policies even across party lines. It's quite ridiculous to suggest that nationalised public services are some fringe Corbynite idea.

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[Grendel]

It's nothing to do with Corbyn, they are generally well supported policies even across party lines. It's quite ridiculous to suggest that nationalised public services are some fringe Corbynite idea.

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Of course it’s not - railway nationalisation at least does make sense and I don’t think they’d be a massive outcry from the majority of utilities were but railway isn’t an argument

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Of course it’s not - railway nationalisation at least does make sense and I don’t think they’d be a massive outcry from the majority of utilities were but railway isn’t an argument

It's ridiculous that if there are profits, they go to foreign owned utility and rail companies as they own the franchises in the main... and if there are losses, then the government can't let a rail system or water supply fail, anyway.

Even on the most basic of free market economics, having a choice of make money or be bailed out won't increase efficiency as you take away the risk... but you also take away the benefits of public ownership, and add an extra layer of red tape in there too, for good measure!

 

[clint van damme]

It's ridiculous that if there are profits, they go to foreign owned utility and rail companies... and if there are losses, then the government can't let a rail system or water supply fail, anyway.

Even on the most basic of free market economics, having a choice of make money or be bailed out won't increase efficiency as you take away the risk... but you also take away the benefits of public ownership, and add an extra layer of red tape in there too, for good measure!

Its not even just about money anymore.
The French intend to buy up the last bit of EDF even though up until now its been costly.
They've been prompted to do this by the war in Ukraine.
Countries need to have as much control over their own energy supplies as possible

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's ridiculous that if there are profits, they go to foreign owned utility and rail companies as they own the franchises in the main... and if there are losses, then the government can't let a rail system or water supply fail, anyway.

Even on the most basic of free market economics, having a choice of make money or be bailed out won't increase efficiency as you take away the risk... but you also take away the benefits of public ownership, and add an extra layer of red tape in there too, for good measure!

The whole belief was that private is always better than public. When in actuality East Coast turned out better than the rest despite remaining in state hands.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Its not even just about money anymore.
The French intend to buy up the last bit of EDF even though up until now its been costly.
They've been prompted to do this by the war in Ukraine.
Countries need to have as much control over their own energy supplies as possible

Hence the taking away the benefits of public ownership bit. I mean, it's not even like I have a choice over my water supply anyway, is it!

(Although the in-law's old house gets its water from some bloke with a spring(!))

 

[Grendel]

The whole belief was that private is always better than public. When in actuality East Coast turned out better than the rest despite remaining in state hands.

I don’t think anyone has ever thought that regarding railways

 

[shmmeee]

It's nothing to do with Corbyn, they are generally well supported policies even across party lines. It's quite ridiculous to suggest that nationalised public services are some fringe Corbynite idea.

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Nationalisation is probably the number one left wing policy mate in most peoples minds, come on.

And for the one millionth time: just because a policy polls well doesn’t mean you can stick as many of them as you want in a manifesto and doesn’t mean the public think you can deliver it.

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t think anyone has ever thought that regarding railways

Well clearly someone did. It was part of Thatchers sell the family silver drive wasn’t it?

 

[Grendel]

Nationalisation is probably the number one left wing policy mate in most peoples minds, come on.

And for the one millionth time: just because a policy polls well doesn’t mean you can stick as many of them as you want in a manifesto and doesn’t mean the public think you can deliver it.

What policies attract you to Starmer?

 

[Grendel]

Well clearly someone did. It was part of Thatchers sell the family silver drive wasn’t it?

It was also a Beeching hack fest. No one would care and the benefits easily sold

 

[shmmeee]

What policies attract you to Starmer?

Same ones that attract me to Labour every GE: economic competence, funding public services, generally not having a bunch of monkeys dressed in suits running the country (just as a matter of national pride). Main one is climate action.

 

[shmmeee]

It was also a Beeching hack fest. No one would care and the benefits easily sold

You should get onto Liz to do it then.

 

[Grendel]

You should get onto Liz to do it then.

I don’t get your argument here.

it’s not a negative policy and I don’t consider it’s left wing. Public railways are just that - serving remote areas at subsidised losses and getting remote communities a means of transport. Same for buses.

Most European countries are hardly left wing but see the sense in this - if he’s not brave enough to stick with such a moderate principal and sell the benefits - he could also scrap the HS2 folly - he really is pointless

 

[clint van damme]

Nationalisation is probably the number one left wing policy mate in most peoples minds, come on.

And for the one millionth time: just because a policy polls well doesn’t mean you can stick as many of them as you want in a manifesto and doesn’t mean the public think you can deliver it.

So why was Starmer banging its drum when he became leader?

Same ones that attract me to Labour every GE: economic competence, funding public services, generally not having a bunch of monkeys dressed in suits running the country (just as a matter of national pride). Main one is climate action.

What makes you think Labour will be any better on climate than the tories?

 

[Grendel]

What makes you think Labour will be any better on climate than the tories?

Nothing but he wears a red rosette

 

[Ian1779]

I’ve been saying since Corbyn jumped the shark the worst thing about him was toxifying decent left wing policies and how well have to over correct to gain voter trust back.

 

[Ian1779]

You OK mate?

I want nationalisation, in fact I want extra nationalisation to create care and software for the public good. I can just also see why you might not focus on it when a large part of your pitch is “I’m not Jeremy Corbyn”.

I’ve been saying since Corbyn jumped the shark the worst thing about him was toxifying decent left wing policies and how well have to over correct to gain voter trust back.

Despite all your protestation - the only reason Labour have a trust issue in the seats they lost is because of their absurd PV policy.
Blaming it on some crazy old guy going extra on free broadband is straight out of the centrist Dad playbook

 

[PVA]

I bet they'd really like to find out who's been in government for the last 12 years so they can tell them how badly they've done. Particularly when they get their hands on the cabinet members of the last few years

 

[shmmeee]

Despite all your protestation - the only reason Labour have a trust issue in the seats they lost is because of their absurd PV policy.
Blaming it on some crazy old guy going extra on free broadband is straight out of the centrist Dad playbook

Ah yes, those “centrist dads” *checks notes* the British public:

Leadership approval opinion polling for the 2019 United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If you keep clinging to the idea that nothing was wrong and it was all Brexit or chicken coup ot the meeja or whatever you’re never going to fix the reason the left never fucking wins an election and I’d really like the left to wing a Fucking election.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Ah yes, those “centrist dads” *checks notes* the British public:

Leadership approval opinion polling for the 2019 United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

View attachment 25493

If you keep clinging to the idea that nothing was wrong and it was all Brexit or chicken coup ot the meeja or whatever you’re never going to fix the reason the left never fucking wins an election and I’d really like the left to wing a Fucking election.

So policy was low down then, suggesting rail and utilities re-nationalisation wouldn't be the killer...

 

[clint van damme]

Ah yes, those “centrist dads” *checks notes* the British public:

Leadership approval opinion polling for the 2019 United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

View attachment 25493

If you keep clinging to the idea that nothing was wrong and it was all Brexit or chicken coup ot the meeja or whatever you’re never going to fix the reason the left never fucking wins an election and I’d really like the left to wing a Fucking election.

I'll ask again, if the way forward is to distance himself from policies like renationalisation and workers rights, why include them in his mission statement soon after becoming leader?

 

[clint van damme]

So policy was low down then, suggesting rail and utilities re-nationalisation wouldn't be the killer...

These are the sort of mental gymnastics we all call the tories out for.

 

[shmmeee]

I'll ask again, if the way forward is to distance himself from policies like renationalisation and workers rights, why include them in his mission statement soon after becoming leader?

Things change, this is exactly why I don’t think announcing policy miles before and election is smart.

 

[shmmeee]

Honestly do not understand how people can sit and laugh at the Tory members for wanting to keep Boris or continuity Boris around when the public hate him, then immediately turn around and claim they’ve no idea why Corbyn might be a drag on the party image.

 

[clint van damme]

Things change, this is exactly why I don’t think announcing policy miles before and election is smart.

What's changed to make a Labour leader go from supporting workers rights to not supporting workers rights in just over a year? Oh yeah, covid.
How many times have we heard the tories trying to use covid as an excuse when it's clearly been bollocks?

 

[shmmeee]

What's changed to make a Labour leader go from supporting workers rights to not supporting workers rights in just over a year? Oh yeah, covid.
How many times have we heard the tories trying to use covid as an excuse when it's clearly been bollocks?

Can you link to a statement from Starmer saying he doesn’t support workers rights?

 

[clint van damme]

Can you link to a statement from Starmer saying he doesn’t support workers rights?

He told front benchers not to attend picket lines.
And I know you'll say you've got to play the game but he didn't warn front benchers not to trash strikers or BA workers who were trying get pay reinstated.

And the Mail ran a story saying he secretly supported the strikes so the right wing press put the booting anyway and Starmer distances himself from working people trying to better their lot in about of living crisis, that's not a Labour leader in my book.

 

[David O'Day]

He told front benchers not to attend picket lines.
And I know you'll say you've got to play the game but he didn't warn front benchers not to trash strikers or BA workers who were trying get pay reinstated.

And the Mail ran a story saying he secretly supported the strikes so the right wing press put the booting anyway and Starmer distances himself from working people trying to better their lot in about of living crisis, that's not a Labour leader in my book.

Can you please show us where he has stated he doesn't support workers rights?

I get he isn't left enough for you but that statement is just nonsense

 

[shmmeee]

He told front benchers not to attend picket lines.
And I know you'll say you've got to play the game but he didn't warn front benchers not to trash strikers or BA workers who were trying get pay reinstated.

And the Mail ran a story saying he secretly supported the strikes so the right wing press put the booting anyway and Starmer distances himself from working people trying to better their lot in about of living crisis, that's not a Labour leader in my book.

So no, you can’t then.

An MPs job isn’t to picket, it’s to pass or protect laws that allow picketing to happen. If we were in govenrment would you want the PM on the picket line of every industrial dispute?

 

[Grendel]

Can you please show us where he has stated he doesn't support workers rights?

I get he isn't left enough for you but that statement is just nonsense

is it half time? What’s the score?

 

[clint van damme]

Can you please show us where he has stated he doesn't support workers rights?

I get he isn't left enough for you but that statement is just nonsense

He banned front benchers from attending picket lines but allowed Lammy to go on TV spouting shite.
And the problem isn't that he isn't left wing enough, the problem is he's an untrustworthy liar.
There's no point in me saying the tories are untrustworthy liars we need them, so I'm going to vote for an untrustworthy liar to replace them.