Astute
Well-Known Member
Has he said he will not end or change outsourcing?
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Literally all he’s said is “well have to look at the state of the economy we inherit and may not be able to do everything as quickly as we wanted”. The rest is SCG and right wing spin.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
The UK is run by the most dishonest government for a very long time. Tax dodging, law breaking, clear lies and much more.
Nobody from Labour has a clue how bad things really are or how worse it will get before the next election. Yes we all want things to vastly improve. But national debt is at its highest ever by far. We are at risk of becoming another Italy, Spain, Greece or several other countries in Europe if the blank cheque book comes out.
I would prefer our expectations to be lower than many promises made that cannot be kept to after an election. It would end all chances of another Labour government for a whole generation.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Keir Starmer scraps pledge to end NHS private sector outsourcing
Labour leader suggests breaking promise could help him win election
www.independent.co.uk
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I think the one thing we can all agree on is the quality of politicians across all parties is appalling an surely at an all time low but Starmer being slightly less shit than the rest is hardly a ringing endorsement.
Astute
Well-Known Member
'Starmer appeared to say'.Keir Starmer scraps pledge to end NHS private sector outsourcing
Labour leader suggests breaking promise could help him win election
Same as usual. A newspaper comes out with a headline that is different to the story they come out with.
The very left of the Labour Party don't like him. They want Corbyn back.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
And as has been said a fair few times now nobody has said he is perfect. Far from it. Yet those who keep coming out with the same lines can't come out with someone better.
At this present time we have a decent chance of a Labour win next election with Starmer in charge. A much better prospect than another 5 years of the Tories. Or we can go with the far left of the party and bring Corbyn back. That would guarantee another Tory win.
I would be happy if just one person constantly having a go at Starmer would come up with a name which would give us better prospects. But personally I can't think of one from any party.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Just reading Lisa Nandy’s book. She’s got a vision
Astute
Well-Known Member
Ah so you haven't read the article or you don't want to admit that the headline doesn't match the wording of the rest of the article.Keir Starmer scraps pledge to end NHS private sector outsourcing
Labour leader suggests breaking promise could help him win election
Come on then. Who do you prefer to Starmer?
Astute
Well-Known Member
She certainly has.
My wife is best friends of the Unite Union person in charge of our county. I also know her well from other means. Nandy was her choice of Labour leader. The book is a decent read.
But Labour leader? She is worse than wee krankie from Scotland. She is all for 13 year olds to be taken seriously on gender change. She is all for male rapists who then say they are female to be put into female prisons.
A lot of what she says is spot on. But she has ideals that are far off the mark.
My 21 year old daughter knew she was gay when she was 15. By the time she was 16 she knew she wasn't. So how is a 13 year old supposed to cope?
We are in crazy times. And someone who is so much out of touch with the general public should get nowhere near being Labour leader if we ever want to get voted in again.
A man is a man. A woman is a woman. She shouldn't be known as a person who chest feeds. She should be safe in women's personal spaces. But if Nandy had her way any bloke who identifies as a woman would be able to join women everywhere. Would you be happy for your wife/partner to have to share her private space with any bloke who says they are a woman?
Yes transgender people need help. But not at the expense of women. It took hundreds of years for women to have rights. Now a small percentage of people want to take their rights away. And Nandy is one of those.
SkyBlueCharlie9
Well-Known Member
Misogyny rears its ugly head yet again....
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What has someone being gay got to do with someone wanting to change gender?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
We had it explained to us that his refusal to defend unions, some of which make 7 figure donations to his party, was to avoid falling into a ‘trap’. At least that’s what his fans were claiming.
At a time when the Tories are loudly talking about making it effectively illegal to strike, that’s not good enough.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Labour’s Lisa Nandy suggests 13-year-olds should be 'taken seriously' if they want to change gender
The Wigan MP's comments come just days after Sir Keir Starmer said 16 was too young to legally transition and reveal a split in the party
www.telegraph.co.uk
Astute
Well-Known Member
If a 15 year old doesn't know how is a 13 year old supposed to know?
Were your thoughts as a 13 year old correct?
And would you be happy for your partner to share her personal space with any bloke who says he identifies as a woman?
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Astute
Well-Known Member
And yet again who has said he is a perfect fit?
So who would you prefer as Labour leader?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I have quite liked Clive Lewis and Ian Murray whenever I’ve seen them speak. Lewis I believe is ex army, so the press can’t exactly go in with their usual lines of attack.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It’s a lot more complex than that and telling someone they have to wait for an arbitrary age before discussing something/be taken seriously could lead to more problems.
I’m sure there are a good number of people who even by 13-15 begin to question their gender - they should absolutely be offered support and guidance with that.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes but she wants more.
And how about your partner sharing her private space with any bloke who says he identifies as a woman? If you're OK with that try asking your partner what she thinks.
Look at what has just happened to wee Krankie. And you try to defend someone who goes even further. Seems like you want someone unvotable.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I’m sure she’d have no problem sharing a changing room with someone who’d undergone gender assignment surgery.
I’m pretty out of touch with the pointless culture wars in the UK to be honest.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So she would be happy to share her space with another woman. But that wasn't the question.
Would she be happy to share her personal space with any bloke who identifies as a woman? Or are you saying there are no wrong uns that will use it to their advantage?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Society has a huge issue but not insurmountable. Safety is paramount when peoples rights are contradictory. There’s an answer in there somewhere
Astute
Well-Known Member
Good answer.
My biggest concern is my daughters, the youngest is 14, having to share facilities with any bloke who says he identifies as a woman. No proof at all needed. What people like Nandy wants is total freedom of anyone who says they identify as a woman. Google is everyone's friend. Easy to find out what people really think.
I don't even agree with transgender people competing with women in sport. If it continues those born a woman will never win anything.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Stop conflating 2 completely separate issues together… even if you didn’t intend to.
Up to the age of 16 a young person can get all the advice they want, but they can’t change anything legally or otherwise. They get to have their preferred name and pronouns used in school if they wish and every single other person should respect that because it is their choice and they are entitled to do so.
But they still get their GCSE certificates in their legal name because that’s the law.
Safeguarding trumps everything - kids are safe and protected in schools, the idea that a child identifying with a different gender can infiltrate a personal space such as a changing room or toilet is preposterous.
It is however a popular attack line for the culture war warriors which I am sure you are not one.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Just reading this now - if this is happening in an education setting you need to contact OFSTED asap as it’s against the law.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Why don't you ask Nandy?
Go swimming? Nandy wants anyone who says they identify as a woman to use women's facilities. If I take my daughters swimming I can't go in with them unless I identify as a woman. School was never mentioned.
Do you have daughters? If you do you will understand my concerns.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I have no time for Nandy at all. I mentioned schools because it’s a real misconception of what happens in them regarding gender etc which stokes emotive feelings in a lot of people, but the reality is that children are safe and protected at all times.
I do have a daughter yes so I can understand your concerns. But this is where I feel the whole approach to this is wrong.
Every person has the right to live their life as they choose, equally every person has the right to feel protected just as much.
The government approach has to be safe-guarding centred first and step away from the culture war surrounding it.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Again you come out with the school line. So children only get changed at school?
OK Nandy for PM. What could go wrong? Wee Krankie was a one off. Did she resign for no reason?
But if you have daughters would you be happy for them to get changed in an area that any bloke says he identifies as a woman can go in?
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
"Asked whether she thought a 13-year-old should be able to self-certificate their gender, she said: “No. I think they deserve to be taken seriously."
Stop making this shit up. You're falling for all the gutter press culture war shit.
Not that that's surprising.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Out of interest if a student wishes to be they/them would teachers and other students be punished for not going along with that either intentionally or unintentionally?
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Only takes one wrong un to ruin a life forever.
So why don't you make a post against those who try to defend Nandy? Not difficult to do. But you always jump on my posts like those who are doing so now.
The UK is going crazy. To me if you have meat and two veg you go where blokes go. Once a woman you go in women's changing rooms. Otherwise men's, womens and a small area for otherwise.
My kids mean the world to me. Wouldn't have had so many if they didn't. Yet I'm supposed to not worry about anything.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I was explaining the school position that was all, it’s also my only real frame of reference to be honest.
For me there are two completely separate issues going on here that have somehow become intertwined.
Firstly I think the GRC is a no-brainer. It’s a piece of paper that allows someone to change their pronouns on their driving licence or bank account. But that’s where it should start and end. It should not be passport to protected spaces.
Protected spaces are a different debate - this is where safety takes precedence, so if that’s means trans people have to change in a single self contained space I don’t think that’s unreasonable if their others choices are respected.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And here comes the first idiot who wants to look good.
So you don't have daughters or a partner who is happy to share their personal space with anyone who says they identify as a woman.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Well he would as a school teacher!
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
People make mistakes in school with pronouns - I know I have before. I don’t think there would be any sanctions unless we were talking about sustained and deliberate targeting, essentially bullying.