Yes but it wasn't one person demanding a slavery statue be ripped down was it. It was a statue that thousands of people had complained about over years, an organisation that owned it refused to listen & see the sheer offensiveness, then lied and pretended the object of the statue was actually a kind & great man, and in the end people had enough of not being listened to. Again- you can read the story all over, that was building up for years- you can't just boil it down to simple terms like that. As for not using companies who benefitted, we've seen things like adverts being pulled from companies- which might not be much but its a start- awareness is rising considerably which will help- is that not a positive thing?
There will be a ' covid spirit' borne out of the current situation eventually and then the so called blitz/wartime spirit will perhaps have some kind of context or tangibility. It's just really a sense of grit, determination and survival. Why people on here mock it I don't really know.In fairness I don't think he means the people who lived through it, he means the people since then who have latched onto it for their own purposes. I suspect he means the people you see now trying to invoke the 'wartime spirit' when they weren't even born, whereas those who did live through it do/ did not glorify it at all. Commemorate yes, but not glorify.
So again, Lewis Hamilton demands all statues related to slavery be torn down but is happy to work for one? How does that work?
Awareness has to be the right awareness to educate people, not just give people something else to jump onto now the NHS stuff has gone quiet. It has to bring a positive change.
Why people on here mock it I don't really know.
There will be a ' covid spirit' borne out of the current situation eventually and then the so called blitz/wartime spirit will perhaps have some kind of context or tangibility. It's just really a sense of grit, determination and survival. Why people on here mock it I don't really know.
To be honest, most of this thread is all about politics. Same people who only bother with the Brexit thread.I don't mock the idea personally but I do mock people who didn't live through it and have no idea what it was actually like using it to score political points.
Loads of Brexit dorks using it being one example. 38 year old Keith from Evesham rattling on about a blitz spirit.
It can mean that but to say class is the problem not race is wholesale incorrect. It suggests that a white and black person of equal class, equal education, equal job etc will always be treated equally by the police for instance, the black person will never be overlooked for employment or promotion based on race etc etc. If a white man of equal class, education etc to the black man in Central Park who politely asked that woman to put her dog on its lead had have asked that woman to put her dog on its lead would she had have called the police saying she’s being threatened by a white man or would she have said I’m being threatened by a man? Would she have even called the police at all?Doesn't class mean that somebody from a council estate is inequal to somebody line Rees mogg or Boris Johnson born into it?
I don't doubt there's racial equality but I'm trying to see where, hence asking you why the education system is inequal based on race.
Giving answers that are about social standing just blur things. Most of us on here will know about the social stuff in different forms.
So again, Lewis Hamilton demands all statues related to slavery be torn down but is happy to work for a company and take money from one that has too? How does that work?
I didn't say they were racist, did I? I'm talking about slavery.I hate F1 but whoever Hamilton drives for- do they celebrate slavery by having statues up then? Someone said it earlier on here, you can’t assume responsibility for things your ancestors/ predecessors did, but you can make sure it stays a relic, done. If he thought his employer was somehow racist then he wouldn’t work for them, I’ve no doubt about that, I’m sure he doesn’t need the money and wouldn’t be unemployed for long. There is a world of difference between that and wanting monuments celebrating slave traders to be torn down.
I get what you re trying to to say, but for me it's irrelevant.
I work in the Pharmaceutical industry, don't necessarily agree with a lot of what goes on but it's money. Ok Hamilton earns more, but why shouldn't he. What you do as a profession shouldn't have any bearing on your political views. Within reason.
It can mean that but to say class is the problem not race is wholesale incorrect. It suggests that a white and black person of equal class, equal education, equal job etc will always be treated equally by the police for instance, the black person will never be overlooked for employment or promotion based on race etc etc. If a white man of equal class, education etc to the black man in Central Park who politely asked that woman to put her dog on its lead had have asked that woman to put her dog on its lead would she had have called the police saying she’s being threatened by a white man or would she have said I’m being threatened by a man? Would she have even called the police at all?
Like I said, saying it’s a class issue not race a issue is a far right trope as black people aren’t equal to white in any class.
I didn't say they were racist, did I? I'm talking about slavery.
Although that is true it’s also a song about religion and religious songs regardless of who wrote them, what colour they are or what the back drop of the song/hymn are almost exclusively about redemption and being with god in heaven in the promised land.I do remember being told years ago it was a slave song, but it's not really about hope. It's about resignation and looking forward to death as a release from their bondage.
This is the issue. People forget how to read.
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, far from it. The racism part is where people are judged on the colour of their skin.
The class part is where they are judged on their class.
You said black kids in a class with white kids aren't equal in terms of their education but havent answered how....
Point remains- I'm sure that if Lewis Hamilton's employer had statues up of slave traders then he would resign. There is a massive difference between him wanting statues of slave traders removed today in 2020 and his employer having done something terrible however many years ago it was. You can surely see that?
You’re looking at it through a too narrow window. You have to compare schools that are almost exclusively BAME to schools that are almost exclusively white. The issue is bigger than a single classroom took in isolation.This is the issue. People forget how to read.
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, far from it. The racism part is where people are judged on the colour of their skin.
The class part is where they are judged on their class.
You said black kids in a class with white kids aren't equal in terms of their education but havent answered how....
Lewis Hamilton's employers were also brought to their knees because of World War Two, had many of their assets confiscated for reparations, paid them themselves, put on their own website about their use of slave labour, had their board totally reconstituted post-war including reinstatement of people who were removed by the Nazis... it's a pretty facile example to use in iosolation really.Point remains- I'm sure that if Lewis Hamilton's employer had statues up of slave traders then he would resign. There is a massive difference between him wanting statues of slave traders removed today in 2020 and his employer having done something terrible however many years ago it was. You can surely see that?
I doubt Mercedes has statues of Albert Speer at their factories though. They can’t change their history anymore than we can, that doesn’t mean that they should pay homage to Albert Speer like we have to people like Coulson.I didn't say they were traders either, did i?
Pretty sure there are statues.
I mean if I was going to the paper making comments about slavery but I was paid by a company who used tens of thousands of slaves 70 rates ago I'd have a think about moving.
You’re looking at it through a too narrow window. You have to compare schools that are almost exclusively BAME to schools that are almost exclusively white. The issue is bigger than a single classroom took in isolation.
I didn't say they were traders either, did i?
Pretty sure there are statues.
I mean if I was going to the paper making comments about slavery but I was paid by a company who used tens of thousands of slaves 70 rates ago I'd have a think about moving.
I doubt Mercedes has statues of Albert Speer at their factories though. They can’t change their history anymore than we can, that doesn’t mean that they should pay homage to Albert Speer like we have to people like Coulson.
They’re probably an exception not the rule.Then I gave you 2 schools in Coventry which a much higher number of bame students that are both rated the best in the city.
I'd be seeing whether they were still celebrating it & how they conducted themselves now, whether it was something terrible in the past which had been acknowledged & moved on from, or if it was still part of the culture now. You have a very narrow view, its not possible to compare a statue in 2020 celebrating a slave trader to a company who did something terrible a long time ago and which bears no resemblance to the company they are today. At least I assume thats the case that they are nothing like how they used to be, I know absolutely nothing about F1 or the teams.
Lewis Hamilton's employers were also brought to their knees because of World War Two, had many of their assets confiscated for reparations, paid them themselves, put on their own website about their use of slave labour, had their board totally reconstituted post-war including reinstatement of people who were removed by the Nazis... it's a pretty facile example to use in iosolation really.
So is education racist against my daughter then in this case?They’re probably an exception not the rule.
But it’s the glorification of people involved in slavery that he feels strongly about. Are Mercedes doing that? Where’s the conflict? If he starts telling people to boycott companies that we’re built on the slave trade then fair enough but my understanding is that’s not what he’s saying.I'm not saying we should pay homage to any of them.
Just saying if I felt so strongly about something like that I wouldn't work for them.
Only you can answer that one. If you believe that I’d be interested to hear why you believe that.So is education racist against my daughter then in this case?
It's hardly a narrow view to use logic.
Obviously I don't agree with anybody celebrating slavers, which is why i assume people protesting about them aren't using companies who have recently used slave labour? Whether they celebrate it or not.
Is every statue of somebody who has used or been involved with slavery glorifying it?But it’s the glorification of people involved in slavery that he feels strongly about. Are Mercedes doing that? Where’s the conflict? If he starts telling people to boycott companies that we’re built on the slave trade then fair enough but my understanding is that’s not what he’s saying.
But it’s the glorification of people involved in slavery that he feels strongly about. Are Mercedes doing that? Where’s the conflict? If he starts telling people to boycott companies that we’re built on the slave trade then fair enough but my understanding is that’s not what he’s saying.
Well I don't live in an area with an Ofsted outstanding school and don't have access to the same facilities as those 2?Only you can answer that one. If you believe that I’d be interested to hear why you believe that.
Is every statue of somebody who has used or been involved with slavery glorifying it?
I can understand this one where a company was actively defending slavery.
I'll have a look tonight and put it on. Thank you!Watch the David Olusoga 4 part documentary on the iplayer.
Point remains- I'm sure that if Lewis Hamilton's employer had statues up of slave traders then he would resign. There is a massive difference between him wanting statues of slave traders removed today in 2020 and his employer having done something terrible however many years ago it was. You can surely see that?
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