Israel - Palestinian Conflict (13 Viewers)

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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I see some commentators on the right are trying to claim today was a draw. The peace march of over 300K people including families, passed by with hardly an incident are apparently as bad as a few thousand gammons fighting the police and disrespecting the cenotaph and everything it stands for.
 
Como

Como

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well... the answer is that Israel withdraws from occupied territories, recognises a Palestinian state, and said Palestinian state and neighbours recognise Israel in return.

The annoying thing is, Israel's relations with some of its neighbours had been improving, and not so long ago it looked entirely possible we would get to a two state solution, so never say never.
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Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.
 
ccfc1234

ccfc1234

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I see some commentators on the right are trying to claim today was a draw. The peace march of over 300K people including families, passed by with hardly an incident are apparently as bad as a few thousand gammons fighting the police and disrespecting the cenotaph and everything it stands for.
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I have missed most of the noise surrounding the London events.

Are you saying the peace marches in London have been respectfully carried out with historical monuments respected but today some 'Gammon' were the opposite and have disrespected war memorials.

Any links would be great.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
Ian1779 said:
This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….
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And no more incursions by Israel into areas that are not allocated to them, as they had been doing in the West Bank.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Como said:
Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.
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There are arguments that a one-state solution is not only preferable to a two-state one, but more feasible as well.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
There are arguments that a one-state solution is not only preferable to a two-state one, but more feasible as well.
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For very understandable reasons I can’t see Jews ever wanting a country where Jewish people aren’t guaranteed to be safe from their government and pretty much the only way to do that is an ethnostate which will attract the most right wing nationalistic Israeli politicians and make Palestinians second class citizens. I’m not sure how you get around that.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
For very understandable reasons I can’t see Jews ever wanting a country where Jewish people aren’t guaranteed to be safe from their government and pretty much the only way to do that is an ethnostate which will attract the most right wing nationalistic Israeli politicians and make Palestinians second class citizens. I’m not sure how you get around that.
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Well as Gideon Levy puts it, the one-state solution already exists - it’s Israel! - the only disagreement is how that state works, and how that state recognises the rights of Jewish Israelis and Arabs alike.

Now obviously that is a pretty fucking major disagreement! And the idea that Israel can function as both a homeland for Jews and Palestinians at once can easily be dismissed as magical thinking. But is it much more magical than thinking the current situation is tenable, or that a two-state solution won’t end up with another war?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Well as Gideon Levy puts it, the one-state solution already exists - it’s Israel! - the only disagreement is how that state works, and how that state recognises the rights of Jewish Israelis and Arabs alike.

Now obviously that is a pretty fucking major disagreement! And the idea that Israel can function as both a homeland for Jews and Palestinians at once can easily be dismissed as magical thinking. But is it much more magical than thinking the current situation is tenable, or that a two-state solution won’t end up with another war?
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It will keep ending up in wars if there’s no sense of justice but I don’t see any way Israel can be persuaded to give anything up. Even less so after Oct 7. And all peace ends up with both sides a little pissed off.

You’ve got to hope long term there can be some reckoning with right to return, justice for the actions of both some of the settlers and IDF and of Hamas and the like. That just seems like such a naive distant possibility though.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….
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Who decides this? Is it imposed by outsiders? If it's imposed then highly likely neither side happy. Imposition of borders/controls are what has led to this mess.
Seems little appetite for a 2 state solution on the Palestinian side.
Who negotiates for the Palestinians - Hamas not likely to be acceptable? Fatah not acceptable to Hamas.
The increasing influence of hard-line Jewish factions makes it difficult for any Israeli government to "sell" a deal that breaks the current status quo.
Will the Israelis even be able to send their own armed forces into the West Bank to forcibly remove the armed settlers? There's around 500000 of them not including Jerusalem.
It's a conflict Israel can't "win". They already left Gaza previously in 2005 because of the problems it was creating for them. Even if they destroy the "terrorist structures" now they will eventually be rebuilt once Israel leaves.
Sadly an equitable solution acceptable to both sides seems almost impossible.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Predictably this looks to have backfired on Braverman. What I don’t get is why she of all people thinks she needs to pander to a certain type of person. The type of people who include people who would spit on her and her children in the street if they thought they could get away with it. There was no love for her in the gammon riots. She’s just odd.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Predictably this looks to have backfired on Braverman. What I don’t get is why she of all people thinks she needs to pander to a certain type of person. The type of people who include people who would spit on her and her children in the street if they thought they could get away with it. There was no love for her in the gammon riots. She’s just odd.
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The type of people who voted UKIP I assume?
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Kizz said:
This is England now













https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.
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Yet it’s fine for you to spout racism and bigotry on this forum against groups of people.
You couldn’t make this nonsense up.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Kizz said:
This is England now













https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.
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All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.
 
SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
Kizz said:
This is England now













https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.
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Peace march innit.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Otis said:
All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.
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He recently said that people from Africa and the Middle East have “ruined the western world”.
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.
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Because this is a Palestinian post?
Why would I share right wing bs here? I edit the comment to say my part of the right wing crazy.

Also the videos I shared are not just from yesterday. There is hundreds more.

The right wing are labeled hooligans and non-peaceful protest (true),

But the pro-palestine are labeled peaceful protesters (false), they're racist and just as crazy as the right wingers if not more.
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
He recently said that people from Africa and the Middle East have “ruined the western world”.
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Ever been to Paris? Or even Italy? Or Spain? 100s of thousands of them everywhere, robbing stealing making more trash than the gypsies that use to park behind asda Walsgrave.

They're horrible people if you come here to better your life good on you but respect the rules.

These do not they have no rules.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Kizz said:
Ever been to Paris? Or even Italy? Or Spain? 100s of thousands of them everywhere, robbing stealing making more trash than the gypsies that use to park behind asda Walsgrave.

They're horrible people if you come here to better your life good on you but respect the rules.

These do not they have no rules.
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I live in Italy and you’re talking shite.
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Every other march has passed off really peacefully.

Why did it kick off yesterday? Because the likes of the Daily Mail and Suella Braverman whipped everyone up into a frenzy.

Nearly all the arrests and trouble yesterday was from the far right mob who turned up looking for trouble.
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Just a giant fucking lie, 3 out of the clips I sent are not even from yesterday, every protest they're causing issues. So get your head out you ass and open your eyes.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Kizz said:
🤣, Italy is full of Africans, pickpocketing and phone grabbing. You clearly live away from where these are all located.
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I live within 20 minutes walk of a major city centre. I’d rather go on my own experience of living here than your “made up facts”.
 
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