Israel - Palestinian Conflict (6 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

I see some commentators on the right are trying to claim today was a draw. The peace march of over 300K people including families, passed by with hardly an incident are apparently as bad as a few thousand gammons fighting the police and disrespecting the cenotaph and everything it stands for.

 

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[Otis]

I think they always were going to.

 

[Como]

Well... the answer is that Israel withdraws from occupied territories, recognises a Palestinian state, and said Palestinian state and neighbours recognise Israel in return.

The annoying thing is, Israel's relations with some of its neighbours had been improving, and not so long ago it looked entirely possible we would get to a two state solution, so never say never.

Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.

 

[PVA]

Is this another attempt at humour?

Oh yeah we'd all like more of this incredible material instead

Are you over in Gaza as war correspondent for the Basildon Gazette?

 

[ccfc1234]

I see some commentators on the right are trying to claim today was a draw. The peace march of over 300K people including families, passed by with hardly an incident are apparently as bad as a few thousand gammons fighting the police and disrespecting the cenotaph and everything it stands for.

I have missed most of the noise surrounding the London events.

Are you saying the peace marches in London have been respectfully carried out with historical monuments respected but today some 'Gammon' were the opposite and have disrespected war memorials.

Any links would be great.

 

[Ian1779]

Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.

This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….

 

[Deleted member 9744]

This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….

And no more incursions by Israel into areas that are not allocated to them, as they had been doing in the West Bank.

 

[SBT]

Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.

There are arguments that a one-state solution is not only preferable to a two-state one, but more feasible as well.

 

[shmmeee]

There are arguments that a one-state solution is not only preferable to a two-state one, but more feasible as well.

For very understandable reasons I can’t see Jews ever wanting a country where Jewish people aren’t guaranteed to be safe from their government and pretty much the only way to do that is an ethnostate which will attract the most right wing nationalistic Israeli politicians and make Palestinians second class citizens. I’m not sure how you get around that.

 

[SBT]

For very understandable reasons I can’t see Jews ever wanting a country where Jewish people aren’t guaranteed to be safe from their government and pretty much the only way to do that is an ethnostate which will attract the most right wing nationalistic Israeli politicians and make Palestinians second class citizens. I’m not sure how you get around that.

Well as Gideon Levy puts it, the one-state solution already exists - it’s Israel! - the only disagreement is how that state works, and how that state recognises the rights of Jewish Israelis and Arabs alike.

Now obviously that is a pretty fucking major disagreement! And the idea that Israel can function as both a homeland for Jews and Palestinians at once can easily be dismissed as magical thinking. But is it much more magical than thinking the current situation is tenable, or that a two-state solution won’t end up with another war?

 

[shmmeee]

Well as Gideon Levy puts it, the one-state solution already exists - it’s Israel! - the only disagreement is how that state works, and how that state recognises the rights of Jewish Israelis and Arabs alike.

Now obviously that is a pretty fucking major disagreement! And the idea that Israel can function as both a homeland for Jews and Palestinians at once can easily be dismissed as magical thinking. But is it much more magical than thinking the current situation is tenable, or that a two-state solution won’t end up with another war?

It will keep ending up in wars if there’s no sense of justice but I don’t see any way Israel can be persuaded to give anything up. Even less so after Oct 7. And all peace ends up with both sides a little pissed off.

You’ve got to hope long term there can be some reckoning with right to return, justice for the actions of both some of the settlers and IDF and of Hamas and the like. That just seems like such a naive distant possibility though.

 

[Como]

I do not see any Jews wanting to return.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

What a total mess that was in London yesterday.

 

[Sick Boy]

What a total mess that was in London yesterday.

Yep, all caused by the government too.

 

[Otis]

Yep, all caused by the government too.

Yup. Stoked it, fired it up, whipped up a frenzy.

 

[PVA]

Yep, all caused by the government too.

They didn't quite get what they wanted though, fortunately.

 

[tisza]

This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….

Who decides this? Is it imposed by outsiders? If it's imposed then highly likely neither side happy. Imposition of borders/controls are what has led to this mess.
Seems little appetite for a 2 state solution on the Palestinian side.
Who negotiates for the Palestinians - Hamas not likely to be acceptable? Fatah not acceptable to Hamas.
The increasing influence of hard-line Jewish factions makes it difficult for any Israeli government to "sell" a deal that breaks the current status quo.
Will the Israelis even be able to send their own armed forces into the West Bank to forcibly remove the armed settlers? There's around 500000 of them not including Jerusalem.
It's a conflict Israel can't "win". They already left Gaza previously in 2005 because of the problems it was creating for them. Even if they destroy the "terrorist structures" now they will eventually be rebuilt once Israel leaves.
Sadly an equitable solution acceptable to both sides seems almost impossible.

 

[skybluetony176]

Predictably this looks to have backfired on Braverman. What I don’t get is why she of all people thinks she needs to pander to a certain type of person. The type of people who include people who would spit on her and her children in the street if they thought they could get away with it. There was no love for her in the gammon riots. She’s just odd.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If it's imposed then highly likely neither side happy

Kind of why we're here in the first place, innit.

 

[Grendel]

Predictably this looks to have backfired on Braverman. What I don’t get is why she of all people thinks she needs to pander to a certain type of person. The type of people who include people who would spit on her and her children in the street if they thought they could get away with it. There was no love for her in the gammon riots. She’s just odd.

The type of people who voted UKIP I assume?

 

[Fysnkysc]

This is England now













https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.

 

[Sick Boy]

This is England now













https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.

Yet it’s fine for you to spout racism and bigotry on this forum against groups of people.
You couldn’t make this nonsense up.

 

[Otis]

This is England now













https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.

All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

This is England now













https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.

Peace march innit.

 

[Sick Boy]

All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.

He recently said that people from Africa and the Middle East have “ruined the western world”.

 

[Otis]

Peace march innit.

Every other march has passed off really peacefully.

Why did it kick off yesterday? Because the likes of the Daily Mail and Suella Braverman whipped everyone up into a frenzy.

Nearly all the arrests and trouble yesterday was from the far right mob who turned up looking for trouble.

 

[Fysnkysc]

All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.

Because this is a Palestinian post?
Why would I share right wing bs here? I edit the comment to say my part of the right wing crazy.

Also the videos I shared are not just from yesterday. There is hundreds more.

The right wing are labeled hooligans and non-peaceful protest (true),

But the pro-palestine are labeled peaceful protesters (false), they're racist and just as crazy as the right wingers if not more.

 

[Fysnkysc]

He recently said that people from Africa and the Middle East have “ruined the western world”.

Ever been to Paris? Or even Italy? Or Spain? 100s of thousands of them everywhere, robbing stealing making more trash than the gypsies that use to park behind asda Walsgrave.

They're horrible people if you come here to better your life good on you but respect the rules.

These do not they have no rules.

 

[Fysnkysc]

Yet it’s fine for you to spout racism and bigotry on this forum against groups of people.
You couldn’t make this nonsense up.

You say I'm racist but I'm far from it , your definition of racism is clearly wrong.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ever been to Paris? Or even Italy? Or Spain? 100s of thousands of them everywhere, robbing stealing making more trash than the gypsies that use to park behind asda Walsgrave.

They're horrible people if you come here to better your life good on you but respect the rules.

These do not they have no rules.

I live in Italy and you’re talking shite.

 

[Fysnkysc]

Every other march has passed off really peacefully.

Why did it kick off yesterday? Because the likes of the Daily Mail and Suella Braverman whipped everyone up into a frenzy.

Nearly all the arrests and trouble yesterday was from the far right mob who turned up looking for trouble.

Just a giant fucking lie, 3 out of the clips I sent are not even from yesterday, every protest they're causing issues. So get your head out you ass and open your eyes.

 

[Sick Boy]

You say I'm racist but I'm far from it , your definition of racism is clearly wrong.

You clearly are racist, stupid or both.

 

[Fysnkysc]

I live in Italy and you’re talking shite.

, Italy is full of Africans, pickpocketing and phone grabbing. You clearly live away from where these are all located.

 

[Sick Boy]

, Italy is full of Africans, pickpocketing and phone grabbing. You clearly live away from where these are all located.

I live within 20 minutes walk of a major city centre. I’d rather go on my own experience of living here than your “made up facts”.

 

[Fysnkysc]

You clearly are racist, stupid or both.

No I just have other opinions, not even going to argue with who's racist and not would shock you if you actually realised my skin colour .