MILO (3 Viewers)

[skybluegod]

Well, yeah, but then doesn't Katie Hopkins push boundaries too and start debates?

Yeah, and tbf just because she has extreme opinions doesn’t make her an idiot... I don’t like her either, but she is clearly intelligent, and again they are basically both in the same job.

 

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[clint van damme]

The US is the most Christian fundamentalist in the world and approximately 35% of US Christians believe the Bible is the literal word of God. In Muslim countries the percentages are far higher, ranging around 50%-80% depending on which country you are talking about.

And there is more bad shit in the Quran than the Bible which is why a literal belief is so dangerous. Mohammed was a war monger who personally killed hundreds of non-Muslims. How many people did Jesus kill?

the old testament is full of mental shit and like the Koran people will twist it to their own ends anyway.
Do I believe Christian fundamentalism is dangerous - yes. Do I believe Islamism is currently more dangerous - yes. But I don't think the threat to our way of life is as bad as some try to make out.

I also think other Muslims suffer most from the consequences of Islamism as the recent bombing in Egypt would suggest.

 

[clint van damme]

Yeah, and tbf just because she has extreme opinions doesn’t make her an idiot... I don’t like her either, but she is clearly intelligent, and again they are basically both in the same job.

Why would anyone with half a brain listen to her? If you want someone giving a polemic against Islam there are far more erudite speakers on the subject, Dawkins, Hitchen etc.

 

[singers_pore]

the old testament is full of mental shit and like the Koran people will twist it to their own ends anyway.
Do I believe Christian fundamentalism is dangerous - yes. Do I believe Islamism is currently more dangerous - yes. But I don't think the threat to our way of life is as bad as some try to make out.

I also think other Muslims suffer most from the consequences of Islamism as the recent bombing in Egypt would suggest.

Agreed.

Regarding that bombing. Do you know why it happened? Because Sunni Muslims regard the Sufi Muslims as heretical apostates. Sufi Muslims and Ahmedi Muslims are moderates but unfortunately they account for only 10% of all Muslims.

The founder of Quilliam, Haras Rafiq, is a Sufi. He told me that Andy Burnham called him “not a real Muslim”. Andy said that because his extremist Muslim mates in the Labour Party told him that Haras is not a proper Muslim. Andy is too stupid to know any better. There are lots of people like Andy.

 

[singers_pore]

Why would anyone with half a brain listen to her? If you want someone giving a polemic against Islam there are far more erudite speakers on the subject, Dawkins, Hitchen etc.

Yes, and Dawkins was banned by UC Berkeley for his comments about Islam. I know because I had tickets as I was visiting Berkeley with my son.

 

[clint van damme]

Jeez, the only time I mentioned non-white was with regard to my Asian wife. And that was in response to your unfounded and incorrect claim that I treat white Muslims differently from non white Muslims. I judge people based on their beliefs not the color of their skin. You’re really struggling now.

As expected you refuse to condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews. Until you do so I will continue to call you an extremist bigot. You could regain some credibility by simply condemning those scriptures. Are you going to?

List of acts punishable by death according to the bible:
List of actions prohibited by the Bible - RationalWiki

Anything you disagree with?

 

[clint van damme]

Agreed.

Regarding that bombing. Do you know why it happened? Because Sunni Muslims regard the Sufi Muslims as heretical apostates. Sufi Muslims and Ahmedi Muslims are moderates but unfortunately they account for only 10% of all Muslims.

The founder of Quilliam, Haras Rafiq, is a Sufi. He told me that Andy Burnham called him “not a real Muslim”. Andy said that because his extremist Muslim mates in the Labour Party told him that Haras is not a proper Muslim. Andy is too stupid to know any better. There are lots of people like Andy.

I do know what happened and I am aware of the Sunni/Shia split which sort of proves my point.

 

[clint van damme]

Yes, and Dawkins was banned by UC Berkeley for his comments about Islam. I know because I had tickets as I was visiting Berkeley with my son.

And that is a failure on behalf of Berkley in my opinion.

 

[singers_pore]

List of acts punishable by death according to the bible:
List of actions prohibited by the Bible - RationalWiki

Anything you disagree with?

Agreed. The Old Testament is even more violent than the Quran. But Christians are not acting out those verses, for example stoning people who work on the Sabbath, because they believe the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament. The New Testament is much less violent than the Quran. I believe that’s why we see such stark differences between the West and the Middle East.

 

[Sick Boy]

Jeez, the only time I mentioned non-white was with regard to my Asian wife. And that was in response to your unfounded and incorrect claim that I treat white Muslims differently from non white Muslims. I judge people based on their beliefs not the color of their skin. You’re really struggling now.

As expected you refuse to condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews. Until you do so I will continue to call you an extremist bigot. You could regain some credibility by simply condemning those scriptures. Are you going to?

You mentioned people's skin colour and related it to Islam earlier in the thread. Nice attempt at diverting away from yourself and labelling me as a bigot. You're probably the biggest bigot on the entire forum.

 

[singers_pore]

I do know what happened and I am aware of the Sunni/Shia split which sort of proves my point.

The bombed mosque was Sufi not Shia.

 

[Sick Boy]

Good to hear it. So presumably you will also criticize the actions of the Prophet Mohammed who - according to the Hadiths - married a child and then had sex with her. Do you criticize that as well? Or do your moral standards only apply to white people?

 

[singers_pore]

You mentioned people's skin colour and related it to Islam earlier in the thread. Nice attempt at diverting away from yourself and labelling me as a bigot. You're probably the biggest bigot on the entire forum.

Which post? You’re still struggling.

You’re the one diverting because you can’t bring yourself to condemn what’s in the Quran and Hadiths.

 

[skybluegod]

Why would anyone with half a brain listen to her? If you want someone giving a polemic against Islam there are far more erudite speakers on the subject, Dawkins, Hitchen etc.

Again where have I said anyone should listen to her? I just said she’s not an idiot, and is in the same job as Milo as somebody who doesn’t give a shit about upsetting people with provacative opinions

 

[singers_pore]

Response to Sickboy
So how was that post bigoted? I was accusing you of being the bigot because you apply different moral standards to people based on their skin color.

You’re really in a deep hole. I suggest you stop because you’re looking incredibly stupid.

 

[Sick Boy]

Response to Sickboy
So how was that post bigoted? I was accusing you of being the bigot because you apply different moral standards to people based on their skin color.

You’re really in a deep hole. I suggest you stop because you’re looking incredibly stupid.

I then challenged you as not all Muslims are non white and asked if white Muslims are okay? Do you consider Big Mo to be acceptable?

 

[clint van damme]

The bombed mosque was Sufi not Shia.

I know, but I said I am also aware of the Sunni/Shia split which accounts for a lot of muslim v muslim violence and proves my point that other muslims suffer most at the hands of Islamists.

EDIT - Just going back to your point on Andy Burnham, if he said that that's very disappointing from him.

 

[singers_pore]

I then challenged you as not all Muslims are non white and asked if white Muslims are okay? Do you consider Big Mo to be acceptable?

I don’t know Big Mo’s religious beliefs so I can’t answer that.

Both white and non white Muslims are okay with me if they reject the fascist teachings of the Holy books.same with Christians and everyone else.

You are not acceptable because you refuse to condemn the Islamic scriptures that support the murder of gays, apostates and Jews.

What’s your next diversionary question, you bigot. Oh yes, and I am calling you a bigot whatever your skin color as skin color is irrelevant.

 

[singers_pore]

I know, but I said I am also aware of the Sunni/Shia split which accounts for a lot of muslim v muslim violence and proves my point that other muslims suffer most at the hands of Islamists.

EDIT - Just going back to your point on Andy Burnham, if he said that that's very disappointing from him.

Agree 100%

 

[Sick Boy]

I don’t know Big Mo’s religious beliefs so I can’t answer that.

Both white and non white Muslims are okay with me if they reject the fascist teachings of the Holy books.same with Christians and everyone else.

You are not acceptable because you refuse to condemn the Islamic scriptures that support the murder of gays, apostates and Jews.

What’s your next diversionary question, you bigot. Oh yes, and I am calling you a bigot whatever your skin color as skin color is irrelevant.

I'm not sure why you think I find any of those things acceptable. You are a very warped individual.

 

[Nick]

I know I'm always in weird threads and bickering but this thread is strange, don't get it.

 

[Sick Boy]

I know I'm always in weird threads and bickering but this thread is strange, don't get it.

It's what happens when people attempt to spread hatred and bile.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It's what happens when people attempt to spread hatred and bile.

It's only hatred because you are don't like the truth, and want to sensor people that talk about it. That's why we have groups like Britain First and people like Milo. If you cannot talk about these issues moderately it creates a vacuum for these types.

I know, but I said I am also aware of the Sunni/Shia split which accounts for a lot of muslim v muslim violence and proves my point that other muslims suffer most at the hands of Islamists.

EDIT - Just going back to your point on Andy Burnham, if he said that that's very disappointing from him.

Exactly. Wherever there is Islam there are problems.

 

[ajsccfc]

The bit about not liking the truth and wanting to silence it is part of the rhetoric these groups use when spreading lies though, like their fake videos of Dutch boys battering Dutch boys without a Muslim in sight becoming 'the truth that the mainstream media doesn't want you to see' and any number of similar tactics. It preys on the impressionable and undermines actual truth that may be contained within.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I know I'm always in weird threads and bickering but this thread is strange, don't get it.

If we started an off-topic thread about farting in public, somehow it'd end up about Islam, Muslims, terrorists... or the EU.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Agreed. The Old Testament is even more violent than the Quran. But Christians are not acting out those verses, for example stoning people who work on the Sabbath, because they believe the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament. The New Testament is much less violent than the Quran. I believe that’s why we see such stark differences between the West and the Middle East.

The danger with mythic texts is when they're reduced to an absolute. There's a multiplicity of meanings, and which meaning people choose to take out of them is as much due to their social background as anything.

I'm very uncomfortable with a stance that says Islam is bad, as much as I would be one that says Christianity is bad, as both can be used by the right people for much good.

How Islam is used can, of course, be bad.

But it's the people appropriating something that's the issue and, if it wasn't Islam, it would be something else.

Anyway, FWIW I'd also agree to stop Richard Dawkins speaking was very stupid. I'd far rather have him speak on the subject then leave it to the mindless bigots who jump on the Islam / people with a funny name = bad line, and come up with simplistic racist interpretations.

Of course there's always the danger that the racists will also appropriate any more nuanced critique, in much the same way they do symbols such as the Union Flag.

Anyway, starting with Robbie Travers and Milo as opening drum beaters for your point is probably not... wise

 

[clint van damme]

It's only hatred because you are don't like the truth, and want to sensor people that talk about it. That's why we have groups like Britain First and people like Milo. If you cannot talk about these issues moderately it creates a vacuum for these types.



Exactly. Wherever there is Islam there are problems.

see my post number 73.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

see my post number 73.

Of course, I agree with that, How many of them actually get air time though? The quiet ones are always censored. The loud ones usually get publicly dressed down. Someone like Katie Hopkins who most of the time deserves it.

Douglas Murray ought to be worth a listen, although he'll probably get you triggered Clint

 

[ccfchoi87]

I always find the so called 'right wing' very well read on Islam. Most seem to be very well educated on the qu'ran and in debates they tend to come out on top. Most of their opposition don't seem to know anything about Islam.

 

[clint van damme]

Of course, I agree with that, How many of them actually get air time though? The quiet ones are always censored. The loud ones usually get publicly dressed down. Someone like Katie Hopkins who most of the time deserves it.

Douglas Murray ought to be worth a listen, although he'll probably get you triggered Clint

I don't agree with a lot of what he says but I'm happy to listen to him and hear what he's got to say because he doesn't resort to lies, doctored photographs and videos and fake news like katie Hopkins and Britain first.

 

[singers_pore]

I'm not sure why you think I find any of those things acceptable. You are a very warped individual.

Despite numerous prompts, you have repeatedly refused to condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews. You could easily extricate yourself from this hole you have dug. All you have to say is:
"I unreservedly condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews."

Your mealy-mouthed prevarication on this issue sounds very much like the Islamists who phone up Maajid Nawaz on his LBC radio show, calling him a bigot, and yet they cannot bring themselves to condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews.

Why can't you say that?

You are one very confused individual.

 

[singers_pore]

If we started an off-topic thread about farting in public, somehow it'd end up about Islam, Muslims, terrorists... or the EU.

Many people, such as Dawkins and myself, consider it to be the number one issue facing the West. I have personally seen the religious police in Muslim countries harassing people for crimes like holding hands while unmarried, or celebrating the New Year which they consider to be haram.

I guarantee that if you and others on this thread had seen the same things that I have seen, you would also be more outspoken about it. It's very important and yet most Brits are too cowed to talk about it because of the threat of being labelled as a bigot or racist.

 

[singers_pore]

Of course, I agree with that, How many of them actually get air time though? The quiet ones are always censored. The loud ones usually get publicly dressed down. Someone like Katie Hopkins who most of the time deserves it.

Douglas Murray ought to be worth a listen, although he'll probably get you triggered Clint

Douglas Murray has also been called a bigot and racist. The bigot label has also been thrown at moderate Muslims and former Muslims such as Maajid Nawaz, Haras Rafiq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Hashim Almadani, and many many more.

On his radio show, Maajid Nawaz has been called a bigot for asking his fellow Muslims to condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews. Most Muslims are unable to make this condemnation just like Sick Boy is unable to. But, apparently, it's people like me, Dawkins and Maajid that are the bigots.

 

[Sick Boy]

Despite numerous prompts, you have repeatedly refused to condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews. You could easily extricate yourself from this hole you have dug. All you have to say is:
"I unreservedly condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews."

Your mealy-mouthed prevarication on this issue sounds very much like the Islamists who phone up Maajid Nawaz on his LBC radio show, calling him a bigot, and yet they cannot bring themselves to condemn the Islamic scriptures that call for the murder of gays, apostates, and Jews.

Why can't you say that?

You are one very confused individual.

You're the one who has shared material of a man associated with members of the far right and nazis and who also is an apologist for men having sex with children.

You're a nasty piece of work attempting to divert away from your own warped viewpoint.

I actually condemn all attempts to spread hate, including your own.

 

[singers_pore]

But it's the people appropriating something that's the issue and, if it wasn't Islam, it would be something else.

No, the issue is what is written in black and white in the holy texts. If it were true that the texts are irrelevant, then we shouldn't see more extremism within Islam than we do in other religions like Christianity. The fact is that we do see more extremism within Islam. That's down to the content of their religious texts.